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OfflineAzmodeus
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Succesive Generations
    #1214898 - 01/13/03 03:49 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I posted this in the normal forum but wasn't getting the kind of sophisticated answers i had hoped for.  I am just wondering if i took some spores and fruited them, took those spores and fruited again etc.... how long could this continue? indefinately? few generations?  what effect would it have on the fruits?

I am hopeing someone with lots of knowledge can give me a detailed responce. :grin:

Thanks!


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineH2O2shrooms
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Re: Succesive Generations [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1215050 - 01/13/03 04:44 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well if I understand what it is you are saying, no real effect other than your selection process. I mean what you described is exactly how these organisms have propagated since well before dinosaurs gave em dung to grow in.

Now the husbandry of them, selecting faster stronger, spores to choose from will have some effect eventually. But for faster selection cut a chunk out of a mush you like and drop it into agar and start from there.


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Mycology is a lot like quantum mechanics in that we don?t have causal relationships like in Newtonian physics, only probabilities of various outcomes.<=== Misapropriated from Mycofile


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Succesive Generations [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1216970 - 01/14/03 08:23 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I would think that being outside as opposed to inside would have an effect over multiple generations.  There are alot more microrganisms outside, plus other spores to compete with.... mabye these trials help the spores to adapt and over time they slowly change.  Im sure a cubensis in the dinosaur age wouldn't look like one now.

But i always heard of people who do a few generations then take a clone from a nice fruit.  Can cloning be done indeffinately? and do multiple generations effect fruit bodys?

Thanx :grin:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Succesive Generations [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1217164 - 01/14/03 09:44 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

No, if you clone indefinantly it will lead to the degredation of the strain. The same genetics cannot be used ad infinium. However, everytime a fruit sporulates, this is natural sexual reproduction. There will be no (as far as I know) degradation in your strain, using spores. But isolates perform a lot better. So it's all in the air, really.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Succesive Generations [Re: Raadt]
    #1217663 - 01/14/03 12:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

What happens to a cloned shroom thats been cloned etc...?  Will it develop mutations? or will the mycelium just not fruit?

Raddt, are isolates clones? and what do you mean by perform "better"? in what ways....

thank you all for contributing. :grin:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Succesive Generations [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1217734 - 01/14/03 12:48 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

When a spore germinates it produces monokaryotic mycelium.  This is mycelium that has only one nucleus per cell.  The monokaryotic mycelium from one spore must 'mate' (called somatogamy, which is the fusion of the somatic cells, but not the fusion of the cells nuclei) with compatible monokaryotic mycelium from another spore, or it will die.  The result of somatogamy is the establishment of a single dikaryotic mycelium (a mycelium possessing two nuclei, one from each of the monokaryotic mycelia, in each of its cells).

If you have a multispore solution that contains millions of spores, then you can end up with millions of different combinations of dikaryotic mycelium.  Each of these combinations will grow at a different rate, fruit at a different time, etc.

If you isolate a single dikaryotic growth, then you have an isolate.  Clones made from a fruit body are always isolates.  There are other ways of producing isolates as well, but you didn't ask about that... :smile:

Isolates perform better because the fruit grows at the same rate, at the same time, with the same strength, etc...

When you clone a clone a clone a clone... it is similiar to coping a tape from a copy of a tape from a copy of a tape... the quality tends to go down. 


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Succesive Generations [Re: Seuss]
    #1217960 - 01/14/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Wow! thanks suess :grin:  That was what i was looking for! 

Now i have to try making isolates from my strains and see how they do! 


Oh...have to ask... what are the other ways to produce isolates? :grin: 


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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