Home | Community | Message Board


MushroomCube.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

PhytoExtractum Shop: Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder

Jump to first unread post. Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Political Philosophy Game [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1327889 - 02/23/03 01:42 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

ok


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Here Goes! [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1331648 - 02/24/03 12:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

For your information, here are the rules again (with slight modifications in bold):

Every player is allowed to submit ONE principle of organization or rule that defines the "right", the "good", the "just", or the "ideal" State. Once a principle has been submitted, it cannot be submitted again (multiple votes for the same principle do not give more weight).

Every submitted principle will be considered valid (unless vetoed) and be incorporated into the mock "Constitution".

Instead of submitting a principle, a player may choose to use his or her ballot to "veto" a principle that has already been submitted. Once a principle has been vetoed, it cannot be submitted again, and the player who proferred the veto is ineligble to submit a principle of his or her own.

The first person to initiate play will be allowed to submit TWO principles. Players 2 & 3 will be able to submit ONE VETO IN ADDITION TO THEIR SUBMITTED PRINCIPLES. They may keep this veto in reserve and use it at any point in the game. The LAST player will NOT be allowed to submit a principle, only to veto an existing principle or simply to remain silent.

Some principles will logically contradict one another, even though the second of the two was not necessarily submitted as a "veto" of the first. In such cases every effort will be made to accomodate compromise versions of the two principles, if such a thing is possible. If it is impossible, the two principles will cancel one another out (the second principle acting there as a de facto "veto").

In general, the game will be more interesting if the submitted principles are neither too specific nor too broad. If somebody submits, for example, that "The best State is no State" (i.e., pure Anarchy), most of the other principles (which logically presume the existence of a State of SOME sort) will contradict it and essentially render it pointless. On the other hand, if somebody submits something like "15% of government revenue should be spent on Medicare" we are leaving the realm of principles and entering the realm of policy.

The following registered players are the only ones allowed to play in this round:

Larrythescaryrex (if he's around)
Dilauded (or whatever he's called now)
Skikid16
PeachMan
I Fart Blue
Rono
mushmaster
stonedfish
MushyMay
Crobih
pattern
Innvertigo

Since I'm wearing both hats as player and as referee, in the interests of fairness I will leave it to someone else to go first.

In any event, I envision this first round as a kind of trial run. If it is successful, maybe more people will participate next time around and the results will be considerably more interesting.

The floor is now open for the first player to submit his or her TWO principles of "The Ideal State" . . .




Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Here Goes! [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1331904 - 02/24/03 01:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

1: The right to do as desired in the privacy of one's home shall not be infringed, provided said action does not infringe on another's basic rights as a human being (life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness).

2: The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Some definitions-
Right: obvious, a principle which exists for every person under every circumstance
Infringe: in ANY way to violate or reduce the power of a right. If a right is not to be infringed, any laws containing said right are automatically illegal


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Here Goes! [Re: Anonymous]
    #1332030 - 02/24/03 02:08 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

3. freedom of religion, speech, and the press, and grants the right to petition for redress and to assemble peaceably.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Here Goes! [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1332092 - 02/24/03 02:34 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Personal Freedom: drugs, prostitution, pornography, gambling, and firearms shall be legal for adults. no laws against obsenity or indecent exposure.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Here Goes! [Re: ]
    #1332226 - 02/24/03 03:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Was that not too broad? It seems to overlap some of the other principles.


--------------------
MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 9 months, 24 days
Re: Here Goes! [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1332246 - 02/24/03 03:30 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

4) Every child, at the age of 16 and under has the right to free education.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (02/24/03 03:31 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 months, 1 minute
Re: Here Goes! [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1332286 - 02/24/03 03:44 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

5) All peaceful acts shall be legal. A peaceful act is defined as the action of a person which does not harm another person.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Edited by pattern (02/24/03 03:46 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Here Goes! [Re: pattern]
    #1332986 - 02/24/03 11:40 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

kinda broad i would say


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Progress Report [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1333900 - 02/25/03 07:49 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Innvertigo is the 2nd player and is therefore entitled to a veto later on in the game, should he choose to exercise it.

I believe MushyMay is correct that mushmaster's principle simply restates, more or less, the principles enumerated by stonedfish and Innvertigo. I would therefore recommend to mushmaster that he make good use of his turn and submit a different principle.

This being the case, Rono is officially the 3rd player and is therefore also entitled to a veto later in the game, should he choose to exercise it.

Pattern's principle is problematic because it does not adequately define "harm." Does economic fraud count as "harm" or not? Why or why not? I would like to invite Pattern to define his principle more fully before we decide whether it is too broad or not. Pattern may wish to stick to his principle as stated, but that presents a big temptation to somebody else to veto it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Progress Report [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1334254 - 02/25/03 09:25 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

ok. i recind my ammendment. i will use mine to veto the amendment that "all peaceful acts be legal"... on the grounds that business fraud is peaceful, polluting is peaceful, etc.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMushyMay
Brian Eno is mypersonal God FNORD

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 423
Loc: ACT, Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Progress Report [Re: ]
    #1334393 - 02/25/03 10:08 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'm using my vote to veto stonedfish's 2nd principle:

2: The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


--------------------
MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Progress Report [Re: MushyMay]
    #1334523 - 02/25/03 10:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

uh oh...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Here Goes! [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1334566 - 02/25/03 11:08 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Here are the principles still standing:

1: The right to do as desired in the privacy of one's home shall not be infringed, provided said action does not infringe on another's basic rights as a human being (life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness).

2. freedom of religion, speech, and the press, and grants the right to petition for redress and to assemble peaceably.

3. Every child, at the age of 16 and under has the right to free education.

To this I will add my own principle:

4. Political leaders shall be chosen by democratic majority election. The privilege (not right) to vote is contingent upon: A) reaching the age of majority, and B) passing a basic competency test of functional literacy and knowledge of the constitution of the land. The test will not be prohibitively difficult: just basic functional literacy and knowledge of the key principles.






Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Progress Report [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1334602 - 02/25/03 11:19 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I just want to give everyone a reminder that once a principle has been vetoed, it cannot be brought back to life by virtue of a second submission by somebody else. The purpose of this game is not actually to create an ideal state (we don't have the means at our disposal to do that anyway) but rather to try to find out what basic principles are minimally acceptable to everyone, in order to find the common ground that we all share.

I'm also beginning to think that since so few people seem to be participating, maybe we should try giving everybody TWO principles to submit (three for stonedfish, since he went first) just to make things a little more interesting and complex. What do you think?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 9 months, 24 days
Re: Progress Report [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1334612 - 02/25/03 11:23 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

or we could just include everyone in the political forum...not just those on the list...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Progress Report [Re: Rono]
    #1334648 - 02/25/03 11:33 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

or we could just include everyone in the political forum...not just those on the list...




That's a possibility, but it would change the dynamics of the game completely. Random folks could just come along vetoing everything in sight, the game would become more one of strategy than of finding common principles, and there would also be the problem of knowing when to stop--set an arbitrary deadline, maybe? For this round, my feeling is we should stick to the registered players. Next round we can open it up to the whole forum and see what happens.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Progress Report [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1334676 - 02/25/03 11:40 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i'd say only include those that actually debate in this forum.....dare say: post count?...or sumthin'

we all know who comes around a lot.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (02/25/03 11:42 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Progress Report [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1334800 - 02/25/03 12:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

1. full transparency of all the state stuff.
2. drugs for everyone, except underage and pregnents.
3. internet in every home :wink:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Progress Report [Re: Crobih]
    #1335019 - 02/25/03 01:32 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I appreciate your enthusiasm, crobih, but you need to limit yourself to one PRINCIPLE. I don't know what you mean by "drugs for everyone." Do you mean the state should actually PROVIDE people with drugs? Well, that would be a first. Your first idea sounds pretty good--full transparency for all state deliberations and actions. That may create some problems in terms of national security, so you may want to revise it a bit, but anyway it's your call. In any event, please try to limit yourself to ONE.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

PhytoExtractum Shop: Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Pentagon WMD Report Stokes Doubts About Prewar Intel Zahid 364 0 09/29/03 11:10 PM
by Zahid
* Britain, US shelve report on Iraq banned weapons Edame 845 8 09/15/03 04:13 PM
by GazzBut
* CIA report: We could lose this situation
( 1 2 3 all )
Xlea321 2,966 55 11/21/03 12:36 PM
by sir tripsalot
* Aren't We the People the Problem? CoreHard 777 9 05/09/03 07:29 PM
by Anonymous
* The REAL problem with the Middle East
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
lysergic 9,847 158 10/06/03 08:57 PM
by Solitude
* True Progress hongomon 728 4 06/02/02 12:56 AM
by hongomon
* Politicians who support the Right to Carry law
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 2,324 32 05/02/03 05:14 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* Libertarians, War & Consistent Application of Principles
( 1 2 all )
Autonomous 2,607 27 10/06/03 11:26 AM
by EchoVortex

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
4,445 topic views. 4 members, 0 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Mushrooms.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2020 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.064 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 17 queries.