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Anonymous #1

Islam conquest of Europe: True or False?
    #12081869 - 02/23/10 06:39 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

This video suggests the Muslim population is growing while the non-muslim (jew, atheist, christian, etc.) population is declining. In 30 years time, most countries in Europe will be majority Muslim. As the population rises, so does their political power and potential.



I'm posting this because I legitimately fear what is happening.

I have nothing against the people's races (african, arabic etc), or even their beliefs if kept private. But I know if this situation happens, the belief will become law. I fear theocracy will stamp out liberalism and freedom. What will happen if France becomes 80% muslim, 5% atheist, 10% christian, and 5% jew? What would society look like? It will resemble Saudi Arabia more than France we see today.

This is similar to the fact that educated people have few children, while fundamentalists have 8+.

I dont want to see the world develop into a theocracy. If it does, you can bet there will be war and kiss freedoms you enjoy goodbye.

Thoughts?


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Anonymous #2

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12082159 - 02/23/10 09:04 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

if you are worried about theocracy, you should worry about the christain right in the usa.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12082197 - 02/23/10 09:17 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Yea, Europe will be a Muslim continent.  I think 30 years is a little soon but within a hundred, given the current demographics.  Hopefully they assimilate and embrace liberalism and freedom, but that doesnt seem to be the case right now.






Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
if you are worried about theocracy, you should worry about the christain right in the usa.





:rofl: Keep dreaming hippie.  You may be wreaked with white guilt,  but any sensible individual knows that the christian right does not pose any threat of theocracy here in the states.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #12082222 - 02/23/10 09:24 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #3 said:


Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
if you are worried about theocracy, you should worry about the christain right in the usa.





:rofl: Keep dreaming hippie.  You may be wreaked with white guilt,  but any sensible individual knows that the christian right does not pose any threat of theocracy here in the states.




what is white guilt and what does it have to do with my assertion? nothing, you simply throw out a buzz word and call me a hippy because you have nothing consequential to say. Fundamentalist christians are a far greater danger to american freedoms than any muslim is.
please demonstrate, in a sensible way, why this is not so.


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Anonymous #4

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12082259 - 02/23/10 09:33 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, what a hateful video...

I understand the Christians want to keep their religion dominant, but this is the epitome to using fear to drive religion down peoples throats.

This video shows every reason why many hate religion period.

This video also shows how wars are started.

I disagree in every way with the use of religion in politics, and will fight that, but telling people to help stop the development of another persons culture is just ignorant.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #12082284 - 02/23/10 09:39 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

you're right it is full of hate---that is a meme being pushed by neo-nazi and far right groups in europe, basically substituting arabs for jews. 

charles johnson at LGF has been documenting european hate groups for several years now.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #12082388 - 02/23/10 10:05 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I actually live in Europe, but do worry about the Christian right in the USA too. Uneducated / religious people have far greater birth rates than more educated people. With coming generations the population will be skewed. It actually is quite frightening. This problem will probably be worse in Canada given their appeasement to the Muslim population.

I watched a video by Bridgette Gabriel where she said Lebanon was a peaceful, multiethnic/cultural democracy, but Palestinian refugees with their high birthrates took it over, and ended up massacring Christians and throwing the country into civil war.

It is understandable that "Islamophobia" is an agenda pushed by far right parties in Europe (such as the BNP), but some of their concerns are legitimate. The liberal left here does bend over backwards to appease these extremists. One example out of many is banning people from eating at their desks during fasting, because it might offend someone who is fasting! can you imagine?

These people on the left are so good at trying not to offend anyone, that they are creating 2 sets of laws in this country: one for religious people, and one for everyone else. For example, you cannot carry knives in public in the UK. I got carded buying a steak knife and had it wrapped in all kinds of cardboard before I could walk out with it. However, the Sikhs openly carry kirpans (daggers), and are trying to have the law changed so they can carry knives but I cant. You can criticize Jews, Christians, Atheists, but not Muslims. The double standard is pissing people off, and thats how far right parties gain power.

For anyone who is interested, here is a video by a Swedish political party who is also concerned about the influx of Muslim migrants to their country:



I also suggest checking out Pat Condell's videos on YouTube. He is a staunch Atheist who is good at pointing out the bullshit in all religions.

EDIT: Response to #4: I think the problem lies not with trying to keep Christian culture dominant, but trying to keep Muslim culture out of the law. People fought for centuries to get Christian laws out of the judicial code, but now Muslim laws are sneaking in. Sharia laws are slowly being worked in so there is an alternate court system. There should be one law for all, no exceptions.

Example 1: An immigrant woman went to German court to try to divorce her husband because he was beating her mercilessly. If they were white people, she would have been granted the divorce and the husband sent to prison. However, because of her "culture", the judge told her she could not grant the divorce and the husband had to go to counseling. Why are our laws good enough for us, but not for them?

Example 2: A person dies and an unspecified inheritance is to be split up amongst kin. For non-muslims, it is split evenly amongst all members. For muslims, the males get 6 times more each than the females.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.


Edited by Anonymous (02/23/10 10:12 AM)


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Anonymous #2

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12082403 - 02/23/10 10:07 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

switzerland just had that vote on banning miranet towers, right?

hey i agree that religious fundementalism is a great danger to civilization----i just don't want to empower the far right in the process of exposing christian or islamic fundies.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #12082447 - 02/23/10 10:17 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The vote on banning minaret towers wasn't a good idea in my opinion. Thats the kind of thing just alienates the moderate muslims and breeds extremism.

There is a case going on now where a woman is being charged because she knew her husband was planning a terrorist attack and didnt tell the authorities. That is the kind of thing that needs to happen.

Unless these countries look at their immigration and birth rates, then shit will hit the fan sooner or later. British people are also marrying out of the UK in places like Pakistan and getting their husbands UK passports - giving them rights to vote and benefits.


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Anonymous #5

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12082554 - 02/23/10 10:45 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

fundamentalists of any color are scumbags


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Anonymous #6

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12082742 - 02/23/10 11:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Watch 3:45.

"In the netherlands (...) in 15 years half of the population will be muslim"

I don't know about you guys but I live in the Netherlands. That "factoid" is outrageously, breathtakingly incorrect.

Its like saying this christmas you'll be celebrating the holidays on Jupiter.

We have 16 million people of which over 15 milion are not muslims. Are 15 million Dutch people going to die in 15 years? Are 1 million Muslims (well actually 850.000) at most going to birth 15 million children? This is outrageously stupid. Assuming half of Muslims are women, and half those women are of childbearing age that means each of them has to birth 60 children in the next 15 years if it is to be displacement by birth.

If not, is Holland expected to welcome a MILLION immigrants a YEAR for FIFTEEN YEARS?

And how the hell can you compare lets say Moroccan Muslims with Muslims from the Surinam, or Indonesia? They are presented as one horde of invaders but the Muslims are ethnically and Islamically highly diverse.

Fact: Holland takes in 100-150.000 immigrants a year for ANY reason. The number of people coming here to reunite or form families? 30.000. Thats not nearly a million and not nearly all of them are Muslims.

Almost 30.000 people annually are leaving holland and among them non-western foreigners are overrepresented. Many of the Dutch nationals return after a mere few months because they left in the first place for a tax evasion scheme, tilting the balance even further.

Its hate mongering bullshit. Hatemongering because a highly diverse group is presented as a dark evil horde of Enemies, and bullshit because its simply not in tune with any form of realistic interpretation of statistics.

It is foul play, the facts are deliberately misrepresented to persue an anti-islamic agenda.


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Anonymous #5

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #12082763 - 02/23/10 11:23 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

fearmongering... seriously we have more important problems to worry about, like just what are we going to do with the invalids over in the romper room?


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Anonymous #2

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #12082764 - 02/23/10 11:24 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

can you tell us anything about the political groups behind the messages?


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Anonymous #1

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #12083048 - 02/23/10 12:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting hearing a Dutch viewpoint. I do agree that lumping all muslims together is kind of a stretch. Wahabbi islam is not the same as Sufi, thats for sure!

Have you been following the Geert Wilders trial? Do most Dutch people see him as a crazy Islamophobe?

Also, are the numbers the only thing misleading in those videos?

I do see a trend of double standards when it comes to law here, and it bothers me. When culture and law clash, law should always take precedent. If the law has to change, it should change for all, not a select few.


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Anonymous #6

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12083366 - 02/23/10 01:17 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

can you tell us anything about the political groups behind the messages?




The OP's video obviously was made by the American Christian right, one needs to have inhaled a lot of incense to appeal to the people of Europe, Canada and the US as being "Christians". Its obviously rightwing Christians waging war against a religious competitor faith.

Quote:

Have you been following the Geert Wilders trial? Do most Dutch people see him as a crazy Islamophobe?




The guy is a nutter who only appeals to dumb people. He literally calls for prohibition of the Koran, demolition of all Mosques and deportation of all Muslims. Its completely unconstitutional and entirely unfeasible unless Holland becomes the Fourth Reich. Who the hell would want to live in such a country?

Unfortunately many people in Holland are dumb enough to vote for him. The masses are asses, that goes for any country.

I'm sure that should he get too powerful politically the Dutch equivalent of the CIA will nudge another unstable individual to take him out of the picture, as some say was done in the case of Pim Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh who were outspoken advocates of a similar antisocial, antidemocratic and unconstitutional agenda.

Quote:

Also, are the numbers the only thing misleading in those videos?




The whole pitch is misleading. Whats so bad about living in a country with a lot of Muslims?  Its "us vs them" but there simply IS no Us and there is no Them.

Lets say the United States population minus the Muslims are "Us". Thats sure a united front :smile: The Pro Choicers and Pro Lifers, the Rightwingers and Leftwingers, the Religious and the Atheists, The scumbags and the upstanding citizens - are they all going to unite as one? Fuck no. America doesnt have 51 states, it has 307 million states.

The "Them", the Muslims, are just as divided and because they immigrated from the four corners of the earth they in fact are even more divided. In many cases they dont even speak each others language.

There is no Us and no Them, thats just polarization.

And last but not least: remember these are people who LEFT an Islamic nation. Several Muslims I personally spoke said they would do anything they could to prevent their new homeland becoming like the country they left behind.

Quote:

I do see a trend of double standards when it comes to law here, and it bothers me. When culture and law clash, law should always take precedent. If the law has to change, it should change for all, not a select few.




Double standards like prohibiting head scarfs of islamic women while anyone not from an islamic country can wear head scarfs or bandanas to their hearts desire?

If you are worried about Europe or the US being overrun by some foreign influence, visit the local library and read up on history. That will never happen, even if it takes a few years of genocidal carnage and a few decades of national guilt.
We are on top of the world because we are the biggest bastards with the highest bodycount.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #12083549 - 02/23/10 01:52 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #6 said:
Quote:

I do see a trend of double standards when it comes to law here, and it bothers me. When culture and law clash, law should always take precedent. If the law has to change, it should change for all, not a select few.




Double standards like prohibiting head scarfs of islamic women while anyone not from an islamic country can wear head scarfs or bandanas to their hearts desire?





As far as I know, no faith items are allowed in schools. So if headscarves arent allowed to be worn, neither should crosses or stars of David. I honestly have no problem with that. I also have no problem with shutting down faith schools of any religion. I think the Burqa should be banned for the same reason why I should not be allowed on public transport or in banks with a ski mask.

However, I agree things like banning the Koran, minarets, and headscarves are discriminatory, single out Muslims, and will eventually backfire as the immigrant population is victimized and alienated. Im surprised the European courts have allowed that, and expect it to be overturned. Didn't Switzerland only have 4 minarets when the ban was put in effect?

This is what I mean by a double standard (the judge wanting special rights regarding the kirpan).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8500712.stm

or this (a second legal system for Muslims)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197478/Sharia-law-UK--How-Islam-dispensing-justice-side-British-courts.html

Also, I think your numbers in your earlier post might be a bit off. You are suggesting the population of the Netherlands will double in the next 15 years. That suggests for every one person who dies this year, 2 will come in. Assuming it stays relatively constant, all those numbers will be divided by 2. In other words, if there are 16 million Dutch people, and in 15 years the population will still be 16 million, the 1 million need to increase their population 8 fold, rather than 16 to comprise half of the population.

EDIT: Just for the record, I have lived in a number of majority-muslim countries during my life.

As for a country never being run over by foreign influence, have you ever heard that India conquered China without sending in a single soldier? Meaning they invaded their country with Buddhism? I personally think the states could get run over by fundie Christians though, just as bad IMO. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8287740.stm


Edited by Anonymous (02/23/10 02:01 PM)


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Anonymous #6

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #12083590 - 02/23/10 02:01 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Half the people arent going to die in those 15 years so the only way to do it is doubling the population - which also isnt going to happen.


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Anonymous #7

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #6]
    #12083716 - 02/23/10 02:29 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I've been wondering about this a lot lately myself. It certainly represents the weakening of a nation's integrity when it accommodates a second set of foreign laws.

Still, as an American I really must say I'm a lot more worried about the Christian right. It's easy to forget that America is home to a rapidly and disproportionately ballooning population of genetically idiotic whose beliefs, radicalizing by the day, are if anything crazier and more unpredictable than Sharia.

I just hope we rational people will get a chance to bow out of the religious inferno that I see coming up in the next fifty or so years, but I don't expect we will.


Edited by Tchan909 (02/23/10 02:35 PM)


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Anonymous #7

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #7]
    #12084849 - 02/23/10 05:50 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Sarah Palin is a figurehead of this rising menace, the helicopter-rifling pro-lifers fucking like bunnies and having legions of retarded kids who will man tomorrow's Christian Militias. Watch Jesus Camp for Christ's sake! The greatest threat we have to worry about from Islamic extremism is the influence they are having on the Christian extremists who are watching and learning.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #12084924 - 02/23/10 06:03 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
Fundamentalist christians are a far greater danger to american freedoms than any muslim is.
please demonstrate, in a sensible way, why this is not so.




Who said anything about American freedoms?  Obviously what happens in Europe isn't going to affect the states as much as what happens in the states...  You are conveniently changing the argument.  Fundamentalist Christians do not generally support theocracy in the states, and those that do are a dying breed.  The demographic reality is not a future of fundamentalist/evangelical Christians - its a future of hispanic Catholics.  Hispanic Catholics who also do not, in general, support theocracy.  You are just parroting the tired old meme which has nothing to do with the original post.  Every time somebody criticizes any people or culture that is not 'white american' irrelevant cries of jesus camp and evangelicals come up - just like you did in the first response.

I would much rather live in the future Hispanic catholic/secular America that the theocracy envisioned by Arab/European Muslims.  In fact the only mainstream threat of theocracy in the entire world comes from muslims.  No other mainstream ethnicity or race on the planet really supports theocracy.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #7]
    #12084932 - 02/23/10 06:04 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #7 said:
Watch Jesus Camp for Christ's sake!




:rofl:  So predictable...


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Anonymous #8

Re: Islam conquest of Europe: True or False? [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #12085814 - 02/23/10 08:38 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

:facepalm:


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