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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
If there IS a God, does he DO anything???
    #1207738 - 01/10/03 05:07 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

For those who believe in some form of God, does he DO anything on earth??? Or does he just sit back and watch now that everything is in motion???

Edit: In other words, is prayer a waste of time???


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

Edited by GoBlue! (01/10/03 05:13 PM)

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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1207749 - 01/10/03 05:13 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Well ask yourself, that question. What do you do, these days. Do you do anything?

If you can't see the irony here, its that your the god of your destiny, and YOU can do anything.



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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 29 days
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1207800 - 01/10/03 05:36 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I think that if there is any "God", we must be a part of It... So, yes, "he" does stuff on Earth, because that's what we do!

Prayer is based on if you believe it or not. If you don't believe it, it won't work. Basically it is a psyche-out type thing, I think. If you psyche yourself up enough, you can do things you normally couldn't do.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1207812 - 01/10/03 05:45 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

He kills people through earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, volcanoes, aids, cancers, hemmoragic (sp?) fever, etc. He creates 'human' life like Jeffery Dahlmer, Adolph Hitler, Jack the Ripper, Idi Amin, Richard Ramirez and Rosey O'Donnel. He makes innocent children be born into families where incest, beatings and infanticide occur. Oh, and he loves all of us like a gentle father.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Offlinerommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 3,182
Loc: South GA
Last seen: 7 years, 6 days
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Evolving]
    #1207824 - 01/10/03 05:52 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

dahlmer is my role model


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Evolving]
    #1207827 - 01/10/03 05:53 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I must be one sick bastard, because I laughed pretty hard at your reply!    :grin: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Adamist]
    #1207840 - 01/10/03 06:02 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prayer is based on if you believe it or not. If you don't believe it, it won't work. Basically it is a psyche-out type thing, I think. If you psyche yourself up enough, you can do things you normally couldn't do.




Hmmm. Kind of like the placebo we talked about in the "Proof that faith is a crock?" thread???

For those of you that didn't see that thread. Adamist posted the question "If a placebo works, does it make the effects any less real?" No one has answered that question yet!?!


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1208213 - 01/10/03 09:34 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

"If a placebo works, does it make the effects any less real?"
I smell a pragmatism vs. idealism debate in the works.

Let me snuff that with this: IF IF IF IF IF IF IF

Show me THAT it works (a holistic view please), and then I'll give you a more qualified answer. Sometimes a practical answer can't be arrived at through thought experiments alone. I think this is one of those times.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
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Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1208430 - 01/11/03 03:33 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmm, to scientifically validate a placebo effect.... Hasn't that already been done?


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Adamist]
    #1208477 - 01/11/03 04:35 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmm, to scientifically validate a placebo effect.... Hasn't that already been done?

Yeah, there has been some research. The pharmaceutic industry was not very happy with that, but if I remember it correctly, it has been shown that even the most successful medicament in the world, namely Aspirin, relies on 60% placebo effect. The most interesting result of placebo research was the influence of colours: A blue sugar pill may cure your headache, but a pink sugar pill will give you hallucinations!  :laugh:   

Edited by Nomad (01/11/03 04:37 AM)

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1208623 - 01/11/03 05:49 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Remember, you are God

- Tim Leary


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
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Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Evolving]
    #1208653 - 01/11/03 05:58 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

"I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." -Isaiah 45:6-7 KJV

"I am the LORD, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I bring proserity and create disaster; I the LORD do all these things." -Isaiah 45:6-7 NIV

Yes, that's right, all of existence in all of its majesty and horror, regardless of the perspective of the perishable human ego, emanates from GOD. This is It. This is Reality. You might as well complain because you always wanted skies to be green instead of blue. Change the being that you are into the kind of being you would want to meet on the road through life. Or not.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1208735 - 01/11/03 06:46 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

It all comes down to the power of the mind, they are thing we are capable of that are almost unimagative. But it is like trying to wake from a dream once you have done it there is no point in dreaming why control reality when reality dosent exist.

But if you think bad things will happen to you they will, if you think good things happen to you they will, its just not getting caught up in it all. Especially if you reach a god state. :wink:  I know its not a simple as that because of karma, but karma is still a part of your mind that is trying to show us the signs.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

Edited by jezu (01/11/03 06:49 AM)

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1208784 - 01/11/03 07:15 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I sometimes sit around and do nothing. Sometimes I get up and do things too.

God doesn't control those random things that happen. Nature does it, but nature is without contiousness.


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Murex]
    #1208823 - 01/11/03 07:34 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

But nature is what binds us to the earth, whilst we are in a diluded state.
But nature can be controlled. It like imagine conciouss thourght as being a ripple on the water, what we are trying to do is to stop that ripple. Trying to controll thing we creat more ripples but if we try and riding the diffrent ripples that have already been created. We can sorta like jump from one to the next whilst not trying to controll things but alter things slightly in a positive way to help people.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: EvilGir]
    #1208852 - 01/11/03 07:46 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I don't get it.  :confused:

P.S.: Work on your spelling and grammar.  :wink:


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Adamist]
    #1208873 - 01/11/03 07:52 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

"Prayer is based on if you believe it or not. If you don't believe it, it won't work."

I can't agree with that. No way. You can't just pray for anything at all and as long as you believe it it will be fulfilled.... I was raised catholic and although I no longer believe in God, I used to. Praying only "works" when you happen to pray for something thats already going to happen, in my opinion.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1208963 - 01/11/03 08:29 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I think that is close to how it works - one prays for something that is going to happen. Under the aspect of Eternity (Sub Specie Aeternitatus), all of time, past-present-future, already exists. Desiring what will be, or what is, is to be 'of one will with the Father,' as the Bible puts it. Willing something that will be, is to be One with God's will, but it is also one's own will. One can see the precognitive element in such prayer - the future has occurred to one in the present, in the form of a desire. Prayer is never a matter of bending God's will to the desires of man. God is not a genie (jinn) who grants wishes. Prayer life, even in it's lower levels (as petitionary prayer), is thus still an attempt to become One with God.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1208968 - 01/11/03 08:31 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I am sorry I am trying to type stuff in an altered state but here is the edit

What we call nature is what binds us to the earth in our physical(biological) way.
But nature can be controlled , It like imagine conscious thought as being a ripple on the water, trying to controll things we create more ripples. 

But if we recognise the diffrent ripples that we have already caused  (karma) then we can almost see karma.  This means that you can see your own mind testting your self to show us the way to enlighment. Because we dont realy exist honest  :grin: and this world is basicle just like the  matrix.

Your own mind can create oppatunities to apper that you can either abuse them or not and be honest.  But in the end you know the concequences of your actions will all ways come back to you.

We can sorta like alter reality in a way that if we where in the wrong we would be locked up. I am not saying its possible to walk through wall or anything because once you have reached that level you will be that enlighmend that it wouldnt even matter any more.

here is an example is of my a dream I had last night :

I sent of for some magicle pix herb from a land far away(china) :wink: and the evil oppressors opend up my magik herb intransit and let it through. Even though they new it was weird and strange white powders but still legal!!! just. without questioning it or even sampleing it and with the paranoia of such things how could this be done.


But other may of experienced the same things why?


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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OfflineCryptic
WarpedCndn

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 598
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1208978 - 01/11/03 08:35 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

20 dollars appeared in my wallet completly out of the blue.. within a 5 minute stretch when i was all alone..  that was just after i found some acid

God wants me to do acid i swear :wink:

 


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-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

While the Trees Grow out of your Skin, Can i plant you so a forest will grow?
"When you want it, it goes away to Fast. Times you hate it always seem to last" - Marilyn Manson

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OfflineAdamist
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Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
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Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1209088 - 01/11/03 09:16 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Praying only "works" when you happen to pray for something thats already going to happen, in my opinion.



The future is not 'set in stone' so to speak... I think prayer can influence things that could possibly happen. It is basically like a will-power type thing, just labeled under a different name.

PS- I don't pray in the traditional sense. I do however make statements towards my higher self (the subconscious) to influence change in the world around me. I don't view it as praying though, I view it as a way to use my Will.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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OfflineEvilGir
Im the on coming storm

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Adamist]
    #1209210 - 01/11/03 10:01 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Its just crazy, I just got a call of someone offering me shrooms. Even though I know no one is growing or anything. Strange ! I wasnt even looking for any.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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Anonymous

Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Adamist]
    #1209298 - 01/11/03 10:50 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Praying is like going to a pyschiatrist. You have someone, existing or not, to whom you can entrust your deepest feelings.

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1209380 - 01/11/03 11:28 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

"I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." -Isaiah 45:6-7 KJV

"I am the LORD, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I bring proserity and create disaster; I the LORD do all these things." -Isaiah 45:6-7 NIV



"I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors
But I think that God's got a sick sense of humor"
- Depeche Mode

Quote:

Change the being that you are into the kind of being you would want to meet on the road through life.



It is done.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleMountainMist
Stranger

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 53
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1210187 - 01/11/03 05:29 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

God is within you, you are within God.

If you feel the urge to pray, what does it hurt to do so?  You are simply communing with the better part of yourself.

For all we know, the urge to pray is inspired by God himself.  Maybe it's his way of leaving a message on our answering machine asking us to call him back :wink:

Whatever you do, though, don't imagine God is some kind of sugar daddy up in the sky who does special favors (like bending the laws of physics) for his little favorites.  The physical laws of the universe are the essence of fairness (they apply equally to me and to you) and death is the great leveler.  Accepting the consistency of the physical universe (i.e., there is nothing supernatural) is, I believe, a hallmark of mature spirituality.  Hankering after the supernatural is in fact a form of egotism, a desire to "one up" one's fellow human beings.  That's not where the truth is at. 

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InvisibleThe_Clash_UK
Day Tripper
Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,000
Loc: UK
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1211103 - 01/12/03 03:19 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
God rules over itself
God is ruled by itself
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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Crash a cig guvnor?

Edited by The_Clash_UK (01/12/03 03:57 AM)

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: MountainMist]
    #1211714 - 01/12/03 10:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The physical laws of the universe are the essence of fairness (they apply equally to me and to you) and death is the great leveler. Accepting the consistency of the physical universe (i.e., there is nothing supernatural) is, I believe, a hallmark of mature spirituality. Hankering after the supernatural is in fact a form of egotism, a desire to "one up" one's fellow human beings. That's not where the truth is at.



Wise words my friend.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Offlinequestforall
very-stranger
Registered: 11/22/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Vancouver BC
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1211792 - 01/12/03 11:04 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

WHO IS BREATHING?


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Please look within. Try. Try more.

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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1211814 - 01/12/03 11:21 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Sure he does, Blue.....who do you think devised Ohio State's game plan against the Wolverines a month ago? :grin: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Evolving]
    #1211821 - 01/12/03 11:25 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

He creates 'human' life like Jeffery Dahlmer, Adolph Hitler, Jack the Ripper, Idi Amin, Richard Ramirez and Rosey O'Donnel

Evolving, the last name on that particular list was totally vile! Please rest assured i will PM'ing Mr Shrooms/Shroomism/Lozt Soul to ask that you are banished eternally from this board :grin: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1211836 - 01/12/03 11:34 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Haha!  A buddy of mine insists that God hates him since his school (Penn St) lost their bowl game.

And I second the banning for using such a vile example.  :grin: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1211899 - 01/12/03 12:04 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Ahh yes! those wackey Nittenty Lions! Well Blue, i am STILL wondering why the Tornto Maple leaf's(hockey) haven't won the Stanley cup since 67! :grin: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: MountainMist]
    #1211981 - 01/12/03 12:43 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

If you feel the urge to pray, what does it hurt to do so? You are simply communing with the better part of yourself.



I agree it does no harm. But I'm not sure if it does any good. Especially if your next statement is true (which I believe it is):

Quote:

Whatever you do, though, don't imagine God is some kind of sugar daddy up in the sky who does special favors (like bending the laws of physics) for his little favorites. The physical laws of the universe are the essence of fairness (they apply equally to me and to you) and death is the great leveler. Accepting the consistency of the physical universe (i.e., there is nothing supernatural) is, I believe, a hallmark of mature spirituality. Hankering after the supernatural is in fact a form of egotism, a desire to "one up" one's fellow human beings. That's not where the truth is at.




I'm with you here. But doesn't that imply God does nothing???


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 29 days
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1211993 - 01/12/03 12:47 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

But doesn't that imply God does nothing???



It depends on what definition of God you are using. Some would say God is everything, another word for the Universe I suppose. So 'God' would do EVERYthing according to this definition.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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InvisibleMountainMist
Stranger

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 53
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1212324 - 01/12/03 03:24 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'm with you here. But doesn't that imply God does nothing???




I try to think of it this way.

Many people get cancer. This does not contradict the laws of the universe.

Some people (very few, but still some) enjoy spontaneous remission from cancer. This also does not contradict the laws of the universe. It is simply the person's immune system kicking in to properly do the job that it should have been doing all along.

Why do some people get cancer as children while others die in their sleep at 120? Even when you consider factors such as pollution, diet, etc., the answers are still inscrutable.

If you or your child falls ill, to pray for recovery (while at the same time doing everything medically possible to bring about recovery) is an expression of your humanity, one that even many atheists would resort to in such a case. Would a higher power intercede if you did so? Who can honestly say? As I said, these things are inscrutable. Those people who prayed to get better and then had spontaneous remissions certainly seem to think that their prayer had something to do with it. Indeed, many studies show that those with strong religious faith tend to be physically healthier in general than those without. Placebo effect? No doubt. But of course that opens up the whole can of worms that is the placebo effect . . . If God is Consciousness, then the placebo effect can be considered a kind of divine intercession.

My feeling is that in every case one should do everything one possibly can within the realm of verified knowledge and science(i.e., God helps those who help themselves). By the same token, a version of Pascal's Wager is also operative (praying can't hurt, and it might even help, so why not do it?).

The problems only arise when you get into Christian Science territory (i.e., don't give Billy his medicine because prayer and God will cure him). That and trying to bend spoons, read other peoples' minds, curse those you dislike, levitate, live forever, telepathically control others, etc. etc. Of course, this is not so much prayer as it is occultism.

In sum I would say: Consciousness can influence the course of events within certain very narrow parameters. We're still not 100% certain exactly what those parameters are, but they are an expression of a Law which is fair and impartial, applying equally to every particle in the universe. If those laws were to bend arbitrarily because some puny human being wishes them to do so, the entire fabric of the universe would be torn apart.

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OfflineGoBlue!
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Registered: 10/27/02
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Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: MountainMist]
    #1212348 - 01/12/03 03:34 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

If I understand you correctly, you basically said we don't know if prayer works, but it can't hurt to try. That sounds reasonable, but it doesn't quite answer the question. But I think you're saying the question can't be answered with any certainty one way or another.


--------------------
:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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Invisibleextreme
Male


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,345
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #14331375 - 04/22/11 01:37 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GoBlue! said:
If I understand you correctly, you basically said we don't know if prayer works, but it can't hurt to try.  That sounds reasonable, but it doesn't quite answer the question.  But I think you're saying the question can't be answered with any certainty one way or another.   




Yea that's what he's saying  :awejeez:

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Registered: 10/05/08
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Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: extreme]
    #14331655 - 04/22/11 03:39 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

SO WHAT IF

God is all knowledge

All power

All love

But is also

All ignorance

All pain

All selfishness

And is in fact everything.

What if it is one thing accessing the world through every quantum entanglement, every perspective, every possibility.

Perfect because it is complete and nothing is not encompassed by it.

But still imperfect because it is divided.

Imagine if God was stuck in a world created by itself, damned by an unexpected or planned egotism that belittles all things,
yet still whole, and thus, encompassing the winner, loser, loved, hated, enlightened, confused, intelligent, and stupid

The answer from most is that this is ridiculous

But to some it makes sense


--------------------

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14332612 - 04/22/11 10:14 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
But to some it makes sense




And your point is...


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineNetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
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Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: MountainMist]
    #14332883 - 04/22/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MountainMist said:
God is within you, you are within God.

If you feel the urge to pray, what does it hurt to do so?  You are simply communing with the better part of yourself.

For all we know, the urge to pray is inspired by God himself.  Maybe it's his way of leaving a message on our answering machine asking us to call him back :wink:

Whatever you do, though, don't imagine God is some kind of sugar daddy up in the sky who does special favors (like bending the laws of physics) for his little favorites.  The physical laws of the universe are the essence of fairness (they apply equally to me and to you) and death is the great leveler.  Accepting the consistency of the physical universe (i.e., there is nothing supernatural) is, I believe, a hallmark of mature spirituality.  Hankering after the supernatural is in fact a form of egotism, a desire to "one up" one's fellow human beings.  That's not where the truth is at. 



Wonderful post. Basically sums up my rejection of dualism and "spirituality" as such.


--------------------

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14333006 - 04/22/11 11:56 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

And your point is...




and what the fuck is ur point playa?


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14333010 - 04/22/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SO WHAT IF

God is all knowledge

All power

All love

But is also

All ignorance

All pain

All selfishness

And is in fact everything.

What if it is one thing accessing the world through every quantum entanglement, every perspective, every possibility.

Perfect because it is complete and nothing is not encompassed by it.

But still imperfect because it is divided.

Imagine if God was stuck in a world created by itself, damned by an unexpected or planned egotism that belittles all things,
yet still whole, and thus, encompassing the winner, loser, loved, hated, enlightened, confused, intelligent, and stupid

The answer from most is that this is ridiculous

But to some it makes sense




That was beautiful thank you.


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: If there IS a God, does he DO anything??? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14333013 - 04/22/11 11:58 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

And your point is...




oh shit lol

he beat me to it

*tips cap*


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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