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Offlinewally_world
Mr. Cook

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Horizontal mycelium growth and nutrient uptake?
    #12049673 - 02/17/10 07:14 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Ok so this  may be covered in Stamets' "Mycelium Running," but I unfortunately havent gotten my hands on it yet. However, I know these two topics are not covered in TMC or GGMM.

Anyways, the first idea I had was that coaxing mycelium to grow in horizontal networks would be optimum for the sequential fruitbodies. I think this for two reaons:

1.) I assume mycelium has adapted over time to grow in horizontal networks because the more horizontal surface area the mycelium network covers the better chance it has of survivng.
2.) It seems that if a mycelium network was forced to colonize horizontally, the total amount of cells in the network would be larger versus a network colonizing vertically.
  2a.) For a crude example, imagine a myco-bag with straw lined horizontally. Because of the fact mycelium doesn't eat "through" items, but merely colonizes "around," it would have more space to colonize versus a myco-bag with vertical standing straw (althought that would be kind of fruitless, anyhow). The mycelium would require more time and more cell division because the horicontally lined straw would create more surface space. Well that's my hypothesis, anyways.


The second topic is sort of a branch-off from the first one. It inquires about exactly how mycelium draws the nutrients from its substrate. I have observed that mycelium merely colonizes around, for example, rye grain. The mycelium does not "eat" all the way through the rye grain. This also leaves me to wonder a few things.

1.) How does the mycelium extract the nutritional matter from the substrate it is colonizing? I would imagine there are specialized cells that the mycelium develops in that part of it's life that have some sort of microscopic "siphoning" property or apparatus built into them. This, again, is just a toss in the air.
2.) Taking all this into consideration, would a substrate of a specific uniformity and "granule" size be of benefit to the fungus? For example, I would hypothesize that a substrate with smaller "granules," say rye grain size (maybe?), would perform much better than a substrate with "granules" that are golf-ball size. I think this because the rye-grain sized "granules" would provide more surface area for those hypothetical "siphoning cells" to exist. I mean, it's already understood some sort of uniformity is required b/c we already try to chop our straw into uniform pieces.

So yeah, I know these ideas may seem contradictory at first, but nature is never simple. It could be that both factors play a role.

OR, it could be I am WAY off base with these ideas. That's way I'm asking you guys. I know there's an abundance of people out there that know more than I do.


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^False and fictitious.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Horizontal mycelium growth and nutrient uptake? [Re: wally_world]
    #12050867 - 02/17/10 10:17 PM (14 years, 7 days ago)

Well, I notice it propagates in space, following the nutrients it finds.  It definitely reroutes itself if it encounters obstacles, tearing down one network and building up another over time.

Quote:

The second topic is sort of a branch-off from the first one. It inquires about exactly how mycelium draws the nutrients from its substrate. I have observed that mycelium merely colonizes around, for example, rye grain. The mycelium does not "eat" all the way through the rye grain.




I always figured you chop up the straw so the myc can get inside it more easily - straw has a lot of tough exterior cells.  Same with grains, and so on.  Mycelium produces and/or secretes digestive enzymes and uses these to digest its spawn, SFAIK, and I also suspect normal decay processes in the substrate help it along.

Peace
-PS


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Horizontal mycelium growth and nutrient uptake? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #12052491 - 02/18/10 08:03 AM (14 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

2a.) For a crude example, imagine a myco-bag with straw lined horizontally. Because of the fact mycelium doesn't eat "through" items, but merely colonizes "around,"




Not correct.  Mycelium digests and eats substrates.  If you left rye berries alone at full colonization, within a few months the mycelium will have totally digested them.  Ditto for other substrates.  That's why we can feed animals spent sawdust blocks from growing shiitake and oysters, etc.  The mycelium has broken down the cell structure of the wood, making it possible for cows and other livestock to eat and digest them.

Mycelium also goes where the food is, whether vertical or horizontal.  I've seen mushrooms 75 feet high in trees.
RR


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Offlinewally_world
Mr. Cook

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Horizontal mycelium growth and nutrient uptake? [Re: wally_world]
    #12052843 - 02/18/10 09:52 AM (14 years, 7 days ago)

Thanks.

But do you know exactly how myselium "uses" the material? It still seems like the theory could still stand, since there would be more surface area on the substrate for them to do whatever it is they do.

And it still seems like it would be a survival advantage if they grew outwards, rather then downwards. More fruitbodies containing spores that are above ground equals more spores getting more widely spread.

But I do see what you're saying. Lol if the mycelium is just moving outward where there is no food it would die anyways.

Do you have any suggested reading on this topic?


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Invisiblefastfred
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Registered: 05/17/04
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Re: Horizontal mycelium growth and nutrient uptake? [Re: wally_world]
    #12053098 - 02/18/10 10:44 AM (14 years, 7 days ago)

> But do you know exactly how myselium "uses" the material?

Myc secretes enzymes which digest the substrate.  As it is digested the material is directly absorbed into the myc network.

Myc simply grows around and through the food.  There's no need for thinking about a complicated system as none exists.


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It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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Offlinewally_world
Mr. Cook

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Horizontal mycelium growth and nutrient uptake? [Re: fastfred]
    #12067576 - 02/20/10 08:01 PM (14 years, 5 days ago)

Thank you, sirs.

Can you reccomend any books, or even good text books to read on this subject?


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