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InvisibleChespirito
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Registered: 02/13/09
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Doc_T]
    #12057128 - 02/18/10 09:40 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

I have a job, its ok.  I have delusions of making decent contributions to science though.  Might as well try when you're young.


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Chespirito]
    #12057139 - 02/18/10 09:41 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Anyways Ive calmed down, silly thing to fret about


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Chespirito]
    #12057165 - 02/18/10 09:45 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Hey, old people can try too.  :razz:  It is better to try when you are young though.

I honestly dont really think about making decent contributions.  I mostly want to learn the stuff for my self, its kind of selfish I guess.  Of course I want to make enough to pay off my loans too.


Quote:

Chespirito said:
Anyways Ive calmed down, silly thing to fret about



:cheers:


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: DieCommie]
    #12057217 - 02/18/10 09:52 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Undergrad loans?  Aren't you around my age?  I know your ass is married and all which I just can't get behind, but I thought you were still around me in terms of age.  As a physicist youve got a much better chance of making important contributions that the public will know about.  Hell the last engineer anyone of the somewhat learned public would know is Shannon.  The guy invented all of information theory and was a genius.  The last physicist anyone of the learned public would know is Hawking, though thats mostly because he's all fucked up but hes far more recent.  I guess both majors have the same hurdle in getting known though.  Ultimately Id like to just be an asterisk somewhere in a textbook or newspaper, 'Chespirito came up with this in 2011, reports were he was drunk, came out of the shower naked and told his girlfriend, 'Holy shit! I get it, the ***** is the ****** when you ******'


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OfflineJT
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Chespirito]
    #12057256 - 02/18/10 09:58 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
'Chespirito came up with this in 2011, reports were he was drunk, came out of the shower naked and told his girlfriend, 'Holy shit! I get it, the ***** is the ****** when you ******'




bro i will quote it for you right here.

everything will be okay.

:mypleasure:


but really, don't get your hopes down. the grad student i'm working for got rejected 8 times before she finally got into a Ph. D. program :rofl:


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Chespirito]
    #12057257 - 02/18/10 09:58 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Ha, its nice to hear that perspective.

So often physics is guilty of being old and dusty while biology and engineering do all this great stuff and get lots of money.  Computer science too.  Physics is good, but it definitely needs too, and is, reinventing itself to stay relevant.  Creeping into other fields with bio and applied physics.

As far as famous engineers go, software engineers seem to get all the fame nowadays.  And women too.


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: DieCommie]
    #12057275 - 02/18/10 10:02 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Ah I guess I dont count CS as engineers for some reason.  I more associate CS with applied mathematics, at least certain CS subareas.  The public loves physics though, they love to hear about new areas being developed.  I will say that certain areas of physics need experimental data to catch up to them so that they can move forward with theories based in reality.  Really, you experimentalists are slackin.  I really like Shannon though, I put him up there with Schrodinger and Feynman in terms of intelligence and raw ability.  The guy was a beast


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Chespirito]
    #12057323 - 02/18/10 10:10 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Yea, I read his paper where he defined the entropy.  I still dont understand it very well, but I got real interested in it for a while. 

As far as physics experimentalists go, they are doing good - just not in the areas the public eats up like wormholes and time travel.  In materials, bio, optics, all over.  The bose condensate, optical tweezers and traps, exotic phases like superconductors and observational research from the hubble.  All that stuff combined is a bigger deal than the LHC, but the public isnt interested (except for hubble).


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: DieCommie]
    #12057361 - 02/18/10 10:17 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Yea, he defined entropy though if you read it again I think youll find its pretty straight forward, though he gets real wild later in the paper.  Keep in mind that Von Neumann defined the quantum entropy of a system in a similar fashion based off density matrices, though Im unclear of who came first and I doubt either had any knowledge of the other.  Information Theory is basically pure math yet its taught in EE.  Its entirely math proofs and to understand it one needs a very solid grounding in fundamental real analysis and other mathematical areas.  And now with some physicists claiming that reality should be defined in terms of information theory I think he'll become known as an Einstein of types.  Einstein I think was the wildest cat of the 20th century, I mean how do you jump from redefining electromagnetism to redefining gravity?  Absurd.

  I think the public does care about science beyond the LHC.  Youd be surprised how many people watch science shows explaining to them modern physics in laymen terms.  As you know Im a big fan of physics, Im just not benevolent enough to work on research purely for research sake, I need to create some shit.  Though I envy those that are.


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: DieCommie]
    #12057371 - 02/18/10 10:18 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

What research do you do?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Chespirito]
    #12057455 - 02/18/10 10:34 PM (14 years, 6 days ago)

I did biological physics last year but am now in a 'transitional phase' (that is, Im teaching and preparing for quals).  I will likely be doing some very applied condensed matter or less likely some Atomic/Optical.  But I dont really have time for that until June.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Chespirito]
    #12058489 - 02/19/10 06:03 AM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Ah I guess I dont count CS as engineers for some reason.  I more associate CS with applied mathematics, at least certain CS subareas. 




I'm a CS guy. It's more like applied linguistics than anything mathematical. It's all about semantics and such.
Lots of math in some applications, but programming itself is not mathematical.
Writing a program is like writing a story then translating it to a foreign language.


Quote:

Chespirito said:
I have delusions of making decent contributions to science though.  Might as well try when you're young.




"Don't dream it, be it!"
You don't need a degree to think and discover and invent.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Doc_T]
    #12058500 - 02/19/10 06:15 AM (14 years, 6 days ago)

I'd say:  Get a relevant job (if you can) for the next year, and re-apply next time 'round.  Let them know - that they are THE SCHOOL you belong at, and they would be ill-advised to ignore your prospective talent.

:shrug:

Let them know why they need you.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Doc_T]
    #12058505 - 02/19/10 06:18 AM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Too bad you missed out on this opportunity. I agree with many posters who have suggested to broaden your horizon. Specifically, I'd do this in two ways:
1. consider grad schools/universities that may be below your current quality standard. If you really want to do research, then you'll be able to put up with not being at MIT (for example). Moreover, in a PhD., you'll be likely focusing on a very specific subject for which only very few experts (if any!) are available world wide. So I'd suggest not necessarily selecting an organization where those experts already are, but instead just start out somewhere where you can get in and then set up relations with the experts in your field, wherever they may be located.
2. Don't be too specific in the subject you want to do research in. Define a field, and try to find out what aspects of research you find important. Then let yourself be guided by your direct environment (profs' competencies and research interests, realistic research grants you can get, etc.) towards a subject that interests you, that is scientifically relevant and that fits within the organization you're in. In my experience, being flexible especially at the beginning of the process pays for itself later on when you have less difficulty in keeping all stakeholders in your project aligned.

So in short: if you really want this, don't be too picky. Of course, if you have the ability to travel (i.e. you're not stuck in Buttehole, Montana with a wife and 6 kids), look for international vacancies. For example, here in Europe we get a lot of PhD. candidates from all over the world, as there appear to be more open positions than there are 'native' candidates. Give it a thought.

Feel free to drop me a :pm: if you want to spar on this subject.


Edited by koraks (02/19/10 06:19 AM)


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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,373
Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: Chespirito]
    #12058546 - 02/19/10 06:45 AM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Welcome to science.

Unfortunately, it's a competitive market just like anything else.  It's definitely frustrating but things like this will continue to happen throughout your career.  You'll have papers rejected, you'll get rejected for positions, you'll get grant rejections.  In fact, I dare say it gets worse as you progress.  Imagine having another 5+ years or work done on your Ph.D., another 3+ of a post-doc, more papers, more grants and THEN getting rejected from a position.

Setbacks are a very normal part of science.

Although easier said then done, treat it as you would most other aspects of life:  Weigh your options, find the best path forward.  It may be a different school, it may be re-applying etc.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: Rejected from first choice grad school [Re: badchad]
    #12058556 - 02/19/10 06:53 AM (14 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Setbacks are a very normal part of science life.




QFT. The academic community at large is evolving more and more into a system of competitiveness, more than is necessary to realize progress, I think. Unfortunately, we get that nonsense here in Europe too, these days. To be honest, I think we need to do something about this competitiveness, as it currently threatens to create in-crowds, groupthink and poverty of ideas and approaches instead of nurturing diversity.


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