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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Gay People vs. Religious People
    #12048985 - 02/17/10 05:39 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I would assume on this board most people are tolerant of gays and believe they deserve equality.  Most often I find that it's religious people who have the biggest problem with gays.  Here's my view on the situation.

The problem with homosexuality is that it hasn't been proven to be genetic, so you can't say you're born gay or you become gay.  So for arguments sake, lets say you BECOME gay later in life.  If gay people choose to be gay, how is that different from religious people?  Religion isn't genetic, you choose your religion, or at the least your parents do.

With that said, I have two compromises.  Gay people should be granted the same special rights as religious people, their organizations being tax exempt, the rights to marry, as well as rights to wear their gay clothing with t-shirts like, "I like cock" or men wearing blouses.  Or we can take away tax exempt status from religious groups and their special privileges to wear their cloth in school and court.

Gay people should make homosexuality a religion and they could receive all the benefits that Christians, Muslims and Jews are allowed.

I'm for freedom of expression and religion, but I don't agree with tax exemptions for religions.

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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #12049309 - 02/17/10 06:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Homosexuality is not a religion.


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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OfflineJT
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #12049325 - 02/17/10 06:32 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

you're drawing parallels between two really different types of groups here. if we just open up tax free status to new groups like homosexuals, where are we going to draw the line? it just isn't feasible.

instead of working to make homosexuals their own unique group, with laws and restrictions and taxes of their own, we just need to accept them as normal. they don't need special privileges.

you sound bitter about the issue. that's understandable i guess. you can't just go about re-writing the rules of free speech for a minority though. no matter what your sexuality, wearing a shirt that says "i like cock" in school would get you in trouble. it's obscenity, and you are violating other people's rights with it.

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: JT]
    #12050372 - 02/17/10 08:45 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
you're drawing parallels between two really different types of groups here. if we just open up tax free status to new groups like homosexuals, where are we going to draw the line? it just isn't feasible.

instead of working to make homosexuals their own unique group, with laws and restrictions and taxes of their own, we just need to accept them as normal. they don't need special privileges.

you sound bitter about the issue. that's understandable i guess. you can't just go about re-writing the rules of free speech for a minority though. no matter what your sexuality, wearing a shirt that says "i like cock" in school would get you in trouble. it's obscenity, and you are violating other people's rights with it.





I'm really trying to point out the absurdity of special religious freedoms.  I have no problem with people practicing religion freely, but why are they allowed to wear special clothing when others are not?  Why are they allowed tax exemption?  Why do we bend over backwards for religious people, but when it comes to them accepting things, they're the most intolerant group.

I'm not advocating giving gays special privileges, nor tax exemption, but why should religions receive these things?  Freedom of religion expression is not freedom from taxation when collecting money for your religious organization.  I think the fact that Scientology receives tax exemption would have been the last straw, but then again, Scientology is just as dumb as every other religious belief.

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #12050390 - 02/17/10 08:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Homosexuality is not a religion.




It could become a religion, couldn't it?  I mean, if it got enough followers and they made up some fairytale about their creator, what would stop them?  L Ron Hubbard and his cult obtained tax-exempt status.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #12050412 - 02/17/10 08:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CycleThoughts said:
I would assume on this board most people are tolerant of gays and believe they deserve equality.




Most are and most do.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #12050418 - 02/17/10 08:54 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If gay people choose to be gay

This makes no sense. Can someone choose to like (or dislike) onions?

Do you make a conscious choice to get a chubby when you see a hot chick or does it just happen in spite of any choice?

Can you decide to switch tomorrow and get a chubby when you see a hot guy?

Meanwhile, religious people can decide to think critically and rationally about things or decide without critical thought or rationality to accept everything said in a self-contradicting old book.

I don't see how being gay and being religious are similar on any level.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: Diploid]
    #12050440 - 02/17/10 08:58 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If gay people choose to be gay

This makes no sense. Can someone choose to like (or dislike) onions?

Do you make a conscious choice to get a chubby when you see a hot chick or does it just happen in spite of any choice?

Can you decide to switch tomorrow and get a chubby when you see a hot guy?

Meanwhile, religious people can decide to think critically and rationally about things or decide without critical thought or rationality to accept everything said in a self-contradicting old book.

I don't see how being gay and being religious are similar on any level.




Well, an obvious bad joke would be:

They both suck.

:sorry:

It was too easy.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: Diploid]
    #12050489 - 02/17/10 09:10 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If gay people choose to be gay

This makes no sense. Can someone choose to like (or dislike) onions?

Do you make a conscious choice to get a chubby when you see a hot chick or does it just happen in spite of any choice?

Can you decide to switch tomorrow and get a chubby when you see a hot guy?

Meanwhile, religious people can decide to think critically and rationally about things or decide without critical thought or rationality to accept everything said in a self-contradicting old book.

I don't see how being gay and being religious are similar on any level.





I don't think being gay is a choice, but for the arguement, even if they did CHOOSE to be gay, it's still as hypocritical of the religious crowd.

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OfflineJT
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #12050633 - 02/17/10 09:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CycleThoughts said:
I'm really trying to point out the absurdity of special religious freedoms.  I have no problem with people practicing religion freely, but why are they allowed to wear special clothing when others are not?  Why are they allowed tax exemption?  Why do we bend over backwards for religious people, but when it comes to them accepting things, they're the most intolerant group.




that's a big can 'o worms that i can't get into, but maybe someone else will. suffice it to say that our country was founded on the idea of religious freedom and the separation of religion and state, and we're too proud and brainwashed to acknowledge that it was a bad idea.


Quote:

CycleThoughts said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Homosexuality is not a religion.




It could become a religion, couldn't it?  I mean, if it got enough followers and they made up some fairytale about their creator, what would stop them?  L Ron Hubbard and his cult obtained tax-exempt status.




if it somehow could happen, that would mean that every single gay person had to join the "gay" religion. you wouldn't be gay unless you were part of it. it's completely illogical, because sexuality not a lifestyle choice but a defining characteristic of your person.

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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #12050909 - 02/17/10 10:24 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CycleThoughts said:
Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Homosexuality is not a religion.




It could become a religion, couldn't it?




No, it could not.


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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InvisibleTherian
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #12051580 - 02/18/10 12:43 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Number one, homosexuality IS genetic, as is the propensity to believe in a god. Have you not ever heard of the "god gene"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene

Also, sodomites are given special rights not given to the religious. If you beat a homo you can be persecuted as well as prosecuted for a hate crime. This goes above and beyond the sentencing for the crime were it between two normal human beings, aka heteros. In other words you are afforded special rights simply due to the fact you like to have your colon pounded by a hairy, fat, sweaty, HIV carrying man-beast.

Transvestites, trangenders, transtesticles, or whatever you call yourselves already do walk around with dresses on. They do have their sodomite parades with men dressed in leather bondage gear advertising they like cock. And they wonder why those in small communities where people are attempting to raise normal children don't want these dysfunctional boy lovers in proximity to their children. I'm all for freedom of expression but it should also take normal codes of conduct into consideration. I also feel is someone wants to yell or wear a shirt proclaiming their love of cock esp. around children, then the local population should be able to express themselves by bringing them to a soccer arena and stoning them taliban style. I think that sort of thing happens when you proclaim your love for penis in Laramie, Wyoming.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard
It makes me want to cry:grin:

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: Therian]
    #12052485 - 02/18/10 07:58 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
Number one, homosexuality IS genetic, as is the propensity to believe in a god. Have you not ever heard of the "god gene"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene

Also, sodomites are given special rights not given to the religious. If you beat a homo you can be persecuted as well as prosecuted for a hate crime. This goes above and beyond the sentencing for the crime were it between two normal human beings, aka heteros. In other words you are afforded special rights simply due to the fact you like to have your colon pounded by a hairy, fat, sweaty, HIV carrying man-beast.

Transvestites, trangenders, transtesticles, or whatever you call yourselves already do walk around with dresses on. They do have their sodomite parades with men dressed in leather bondage gear advertising they like cock. And they wonder why those in small communities where people are attempting to raise normal children don't want these dysfunctional boy lovers in proximity to their children. I'm all for freedom of expression but it should also take normal codes of conduct into consideration. I also feel is someone wants to yell or wear a shirt proclaiming their love of cock esp. around children, then the local population should be able to express themselves by bringing them to a soccer arena and stoning them taliban style. I think that sort of thing happens when you proclaim your love for penis in Laramie, Wyoming.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard
It makes me want to cry:grin:





Another thing I disagree with, hate crimes.  Another law that goes out of it's way to make people unequal.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #12052538 - 02/18/10 08:29 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CycleThoughts said:
With that said, I have two compromises.  Gay people should be granted the same special rights as religious people, their organizations being tax exempt, the rights to marry, as well as rights to wear their gay clothing with t-shirts like, "I like cock" or men wearing blouses.  Or we can take away tax exempt status from religious groups and their special privileges to wear their cloth in school and court.




wow, your argument is like swiss cheese, big gaping holes

religious people and groups dont have a tax exempt status, some
organizations do, if tax exemptions were available for religious people
I'm sure we'd have more than the number of believers that we do now and
there's nothing stopping men from dressig as women or wearing a shirt
that says "I take it in the butt for a buck"

Quote:

Gay people should make homosexuality a religion and they could receive all the benefits that Christians, Muslims and Jews are allowed.






and just which god would that be, what privilege  are gay religious 
given that non-religious gays denied

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12053702 - 02/18/10 12:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

CycleThoughts said:
With that said, I have two compromises.  Gay people should be granted the same special rights as religious people, their organizations being tax exempt, the rights to marry, as well as rights to wear their gay clothing with t-shirts like, "I like cock" or men wearing blouses.  Or we can take away tax exempt status from religious groups and their special privileges to wear their cloth in school and court.




wow, your argument is like swiss cheese, big gaping holes

religious people and groups dont have a tax exempt status, some
organizations do, if tax exemptions were available for religious people
I'm sure we'd have more than the number of believers that we do now and
there's nothing stopping men from dressig as women or wearing a shirt
that says "I take it in the butt for a buck"

Quote:

Gay people should make homosexuality a religion and they could receive all the benefits that Christians, Muslims and Jews are allowed.






and just which god would that be, what privilege  are gay religious 
given that non-religious gays denied





I meant religious organizations are tax exempt and they do have tax exempt status, i.e. The catholic church, Scientology and many others as long as they claim to be nonprofit I believe.  You should see the church by me, I can't imagine such an immense church with marble and gold and huge paintings without making a profit.
Non-religious gays are not allowed to wear headwear in schools or courts.  Why do we respect a persons individual religious beliefs but not individual personal beliefs?  Why is it acceptable to wear a hijab or yamaka in a school or courtroom, but I cannot wear a hat of any other kind?

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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #12055386 - 02/18/10 05:06 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Why do we respect a persons individual religious beliefs but not individual personal beliefs?




Because our country is full of bigots.


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #12055826 - 02/18/10 06:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
Quote:

A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


Aspects of religion include narrative, symbolism, beliefs, and practices that are supposed to give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life. Whether the meaning centers on a deity or deities, or an ultimate truth, religion is commonly identified by the practitioner's prayer, ritual, meditation, music and art, among other things, and is often interwoven with society and politics. It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which may yield a set of religious laws and ethics and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.


The term "religion" refers both to the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction. "Religion" is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system," but it is more socially defined than personal convictions, and it entails specific behaviors, respectively.


The development of religion has taken many forms in various cultures. It considers psychological and social roots, along with origins and historical development.


Religion is often described as a communal system for the coherence of belief focusing on a system of thought, unseen being, person, or object, that is considered to be supernatural, sacred, divine, or of the highest truth. Moral codes, practices, values, institutions, tradition, rituals, and scriptures are often traditionally associated with the core belief, and these may have some overlap with concepts in secular philosophy. Religion is also often described as a "way of life" or a life stance.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation
Quote:

Sexual orientation is a pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions to men, women, both genders, neither gender, or another gender. According to the American Psychological Association sexual orientation also refers to a person’s sense of "personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them." Sexual orientation is usually classified relative to the gender of the people who are found sexually attractive. Though people may use other labels, or none at all, sexual orientation is usually discussed in terms of three categories: heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual. These orientations exist along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexual to exclusive homosexual, including various forms of bisexuality in-between. The continuum between heterosexual and homosexual does not suit everyone, however, as some people identify as asexual. This linear scale is a simplification of the much more nuanced nature of sexual orientation and sexual identity; many sexologists believe it to be oversimplified.


Most definitions of sexual orientation include a psychological component, such as the direction of an individual's erotic desire, or a behavioral component, which focuses on the sex of the individual's sexual partner/s. Some definitions include both components. Some people prefer simply to follow an individual's self-definition or identity.


Some scholars of sexology, anthropology and history have argued that social categories such as heterosexual and homosexual are not universal. Different societies may consider other criteria to be more significant than sex, including the respective age of the partners, whether partners assume an active or a passive sexual role, and their social status.


Sexual identity and sexual behavior are closely related to sexual orientation, but they are distinguished, with identity referring to an individual's conception of themselves, behavior referring to actual sexual acts performed by the individual, and orientation referring to "fantasies, attachments and longings." Individuals may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors. People who have a homosexual sexual orientation that does not align with their sexual identity are sometimes referred to as 'closeted'. The term may, however, reflect a certain cultural context and particular stage of transition in societies which are gradually dealing with integrating sexual minorities. In studies related to sexual orientation, when dealing with the degree to which a person's sexual attractions, behaviours and identity match, scientists usually use the terms concordance or discordance. Thus, a woman who is attracted to other women, but calls herself heterosexual and only has sexual relations with men, can be said to experience discordance between her sexual orientation (homosexual or lesbian) and her sexual identity and behaviours (heterosexual).


Sexual identity may also be used to describe a person's perception of his or her own sex, rather than sexual orientation. The term sexual preference has a similar meaning to sexual orientation, but it may be interpreted as endorsing the notion that sexual orientation is, in whole or part, a matter of choice.


Sexual orientation is a concept that evolved in the industrialized West and there is a controversy as to the universality of its application in other societies or cultures. As philosopher Michel Foucault wrote, "'Sexuality' is an invention of the modern state, the industrial revolution, and capitalism." Non-westernized concepts of male sexuality differ essentially from the way sexuality is seen and classified under the system of Sexual Orientation. The validity of the notion of 'sexual orientation' has also been questioned within the industrialized Western society.






See the difference? :strokebeard:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: Poid]
    #12055842 - 02/18/10 06:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

We aren't that far removed from the American Psychological Association describing homosexuality as a pathology.


--------------------

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12055877 - 02/18/10 06:28 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

They used to classify it as a mental disorder:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology
Quote:

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder. The American Psychological Association Council of Representatives followed in 1975.




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Gay People vs. Religious People [Re: Therian]
    #12055912 - 02/18/10 06:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I also feel is someone wants to yell or wear a shirt proclaiming their love of cock esp. around children, then the local population should be able to express themselves by bringing them to a soccer arena and stoning them taliban style.




Somehow that just doesn't seem proportionate. I assume your insane view of justice would extend to someone wearing a shirt or screaming they love vagina?

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