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OfflinePhluck
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Blame.
    #1203899 - 01/09/03 12:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

A lot of conservatives accuse liberals of blaming others for laziness, lack of responsibility, and criminal actions. They claim that this is simply people refusing to act for themselves, and attempting to shift the blame so that they can leech off of others.

What these people fail to realize, is that these negative characteristics are not caused solely by being born a bad person. Factors such as economic situation, education, proper parenting, can all have a great effect on a person's outcome. By working to improve these conditions for society as a whole, you can improve society as a whole.

These conservatives dismiss any attempts at pinpointing the root causes for social ills as misplaced blame.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Blame. [Re: Phluck]
    #1203908 - 01/09/03 12:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Education is the key to success, no matter where you're from. And the liberals resist education reform because then they wouldn't be able to get their messages across to the youth.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Blame. [Re: Anonymous]
    #1203926 - 01/09/03 12:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

What? What liberals are resisting education reform?

Where I come from, it's the conservatives that want to cut education funding, cut all kinds of social programs, and prioritize punishment over rehabilitation for criminals.

When conservatives talk about 'education reform', it's just a spin doctored code word for cutting education funding.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Blame. [Re: Phluck]
    #1203941 - 01/09/03 12:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, conservatives more often accuse liberals of subsidizing, making excuses for and promoting laziness, lack of responsibility and criminal actions by refusing to hold people personally responsible for their decisions. Conservatives realize that there are differences in the circumstances of people's birth and upbringing, but at some point individuals make choices and should be responsible for them. Liberals are perceived as wanting to treat people as children from the cradle to the grave, whereas conservatives think that if you are old enough to vote, you are old enough to be subject to the consequences of your own decisions.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Blame. [Re: Anonymous]
    #1203945 - 01/09/03 12:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"And the liberals resist education reform because then they wouldn't be able to get their messages across to the youth."

Do you honestly think that liberals are sitting around worrying that their secret messages are going to be cut out if the conservatives change the programs? What messages are these, anyways? This sounds kind of like the ramblings of a paranoid conspiracy nut.

I've never talked to a liberal who thought that the education system had a liberal leaning. I've had teachers who have leaned in both directions, and I think that's the way it should be.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Blame. [Re: Evolving]
    #1203957 - 01/09/03 12:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"whereas conservatives think that if you are old enough to vote, you are old enough to be subject to the consequences of your own decisions."

What about when you start having children? Why should they have to suffer the consequences of their parents bad decisions? Welfare for single mothers, and better public education are all things that can improve the conditions for children.

What most conservatives fail to realize, for instance, is that welfare is barely enough to live off of, and rarely lasts for more than a couple months. If the welfare recipient refuses to seek out employment, they will be cut off, and rendered destitute.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: Blame. [Re: Phluck]
    #1203964 - 01/09/03 12:30 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Last time I checked, the teachers' union supported Al Gore, a liberal Democrat. Cutting educational money doesn't mean anything, it's supposed to be an incentive for crappy schools to do better. My home school district, for example, is one of the wealthiest in the state, but gets some of the lowest ACT and SAT scores.

Many conservatives also support school vouchers. If a poor parent wants his or her children to go to a better private school, wouldn't you agree that said parent should have the option to take the tax money that would normally come out of his or her pay check and use it to pay for a private education? How come the Democrats are so vigorously resisting this policy? Maybe because the liberal teachers' union wouldn't have as much influence...


Edited by Anonymous (01/09/03 12:32 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Blame. [Re: Phluck]
    #1203975 - 01/09/03 12:35 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Why should they have to suffer the consequences of their parents bad decisions?



Why should I? I didn't get her pregnant. And what about when these brood sows keep popping out one kid after another? When should it stop? When she she be held accountable for her actions, or is it always to be others who must hold her hand? Should we wipe her ass when she shits as well?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Blame. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1203980 - 01/09/03 12:37 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

What about when these kids all grow up and rob you blind because they didn't get a proper upbringing?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Blame. [Re: Anonymous]
    #1203994 - 01/09/03 12:41 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"If a poor parent wants his or her children to go to a better private school, wouldn't you agree that said parent should have the option to take the tax money that would normally come out of his or her pay check and use it to pay for a private education?"

No, first off, if you really want to have hidden agendas in education, take control of education away from the public, and make it a private institution. Secondly, I don't think that only select poor kids should get a decent education, I think ALL kids deserve a decent education, from the start.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Blame. [Re: Phluck]
    #1203999 - 01/09/03 12:44 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Put them in jail if they rob people. For a long time. I happen to believe "Three Strikes" is a VERY good law.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Blame. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1204006 - 01/09/03 12:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Perhaps we should tie welfare payments to mandatory permanent sterilization.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Blame. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1204022 - 01/09/03 12:52 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Why should I? I didn't get her pregnant. And what about when these brood sows keep popping out one kid after another? When should it stop? When she she be held accountable for her actions, or is it always to be others who must hold her hand? Should we wipe her ass when she shits as well?




Why dont we eliminate the problem and just keep abortion up to the mother who will HAVE to put up with the kids, live in poverty and raise children by herself.

People in Africa have HIV/AIDS because they do not have the education. People living in poverty in the US are the same in a way. They do not have the education. I dont think people realize the problem of poverty in america becasue most of them live in rich suburban areas.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Blame. [Re: angryshroom]
    #1204044 - 01/09/03 12:58 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

They do not have the education.



First off, I doubt many people are not aware of what causes pregnancy.
Second, even if they were they unaware they most certainly know what caused it before popping out more kids.
Third, whether they were aware or not, it's not my kid, my sperm, or my problem.

Sterilize welfare moms who have a second kid while on welfare. At least there won't be a third.

And I am unopposed to abortion for any reason in the first trimester.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Blame. [Re: Phluck]
    #1204142 - 01/09/03 01:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)


What about when these kids all grow up and rob you blind because they didn't get
a proper upbringing?

So, we should bribe these scumbags so they won't rob or hurt us?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Blame. [Re: Phluck]
    #1204149 - 01/09/03 01:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

What liberals are resisting education reform?



Teachers unions, Democratic politicians.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Blame. [Re: angryshroom]
    #1204154 - 01/09/03 01:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)


People living in poverty in the US are the same in a way. They do not have the
education. I dont think people realize the problem of poverty in america becasue
most of them live in rich suburban areas.

Even the stupidest and most uneducated person realizes that when you have
sex, you could get pregnant. And that if you don't work, you won't earn enough
money to buy food.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Blame. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1204169 - 01/09/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Even the stupidest and most uneducated person realizes that when you have sex, you could get pregnant. And that if you don't work, you won't earn enough money to buy food.



Please allow me to alter your sentences....
Even the stupidest and most uneducated person realizes that when you have sex, you could get pregnant but the government will give you money.
And that if you don't work, you won't earn enough money to buy food but the government will give you money.

So maybe they're not so stupid.

Nah.... they are.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Blame. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #1204256 - 01/09/03 02:41 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"So, we should bribe these scumbags so they won't rob or hurt us?"

No, that's not even remotely related to what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you give them a proper education, and a solid upbringing, then for the most part, they won't be scumbags.

Most "respectable citizens" would resort to crime if they were destitute, and only had criminals as role models when they were children.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Blame. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1204264 - 01/09/03 02:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"Sterilize welfare moms who have a second kid while on welfare. At least there won't be a third."

They aren't allowed to have a chance to change?

There are a lot of mothers who are less responsible than welfare moms who just happen to have lots of money because they're some asshole's trophy wife.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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