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OfflineSangoma
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Registered: 09/13/08
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Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins)
    #12035542 - 02/15/10 05:43 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

As of late I have been testing my LC stock of India Orissa to try and establish a starting point for further agar cloning and isolation. Anyway, my latest tray has failed to produce pins (even after more than 10 days of fruiting conditions). My setup has not changed from previous grows that have proved very successful so I was wondering if perhaps I have stumbled upon a non-pinning culture. Has anyone else experienced a similar situation? Might there be other factors involved that are alluding me? My knowledge of fungal genetics is very limited so please excuse my ignorance in this regard.


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Invisiblebare.whiterabbit
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 912
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: Sangoma]
    #12035764 - 02/15/10 06:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Not much we can tell you without being there or knowing your FC conditions


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OfflineMOPE
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Registered: 10/07/08
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: bare.whiterabbit]
    #12035825 - 02/15/10 06:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

as I understand it, multispore contains tons of random sets of genetics, clones contain just a few related sets of genetics, and isolates are simply one set of genetics.  I have heard of growers with non-fruiting isolates - since theres only 1 set of genetics, and these genetics dont tell the myc to fruit, this will never produce mushrooms...

but ive never heard of a clone not fruiting due to genetics.  i guess you could have gotten really unlucky and all your sets of genetics dont wanna fruit....?  or maybe that shit will still fruit. who knows.


--------------------
Got used to the feeling of falling
But you'll never see me following
Bouncing back and forth between the healing and the hollering
Riding the outer ring of my own private saturn
Thoughts scattered all across the grey matter

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OfflineSangoma
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: MOPE]
    #12036669 - 02/15/10 08:53 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

FC conditions are 72F, 80% humidity, fan on a timer for about 15 minutes per hour, lights 14/10. Roughly the same as always. Straight WBS cased with 50/50+. I really hope it still pops but I get less and less optimistic with each passing day.


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Invisiblebare.whiterabbit
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: Sangoma]
    #12036838 - 02/15/10 09:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sangoma said:
FC conditions are 72F, 80% humidity, fan on a timer for about 15 minutes per hour, lights 14/10. Roughly the same as always. Straight WBS cased with 50/50+. I really hope it still pops but I get less and less optimistic with each passing day.






Sorry to hear about the anxieties, man...I know how hard it can grab your gut, when you think your shit isn't gonna work


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OfflineSangoma
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: bare.whiterabbit]
    #12036900 - 02/15/10 09:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bare.whiterabbit said:
Quote:

Sangoma said:
FC conditions are 72F, 80% humidity, fan on a timer for about 15 minutes per hour, lights 14/10. Roughly the same as always. Straight WBS cased with 50/50+. I really hope it still pops but I get less and less optimistic with each passing day.






Sorry to hear about the anxieties, man...I know how hard it can grab your gut, when you think your shit isn't gonna work




Thanks for the empathy man. Thankfully though, and rather embarrassingly, I seem to have found the problem. I had some humidity and temperature issues during the beginning of the grow and it seems as though the sub became too dehydrated. I decided to attempt a dunk a few minutes ago and, upon overturning the tub, found hundreds of pins along the bottom edges of the sub. I'm guessing that, since the greatest moisture content was present at the bottom of the tub and the bottom edges received some light once the sub shrank due to water loss, the pins formed in the optimal location. Can't believe I didn't notice that before! But I'm going to dunk the case for 12 hours and then lightly case and return to fruiting conditions. Looks like I may just have caught it in the nick of time.


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OfflineTeamAmerica
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: Sangoma]
    #12036991 - 02/15/10 09:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sangoma said:
FC conditions are 72F, 80% humidity, fan on a timer for about 15 minutes per hour, lights 14/10. Roughly the same as always. Straight WBS cased with 50/50+. I really hope it still pops but I get less and less optimistic with each passing day.





Dude 15 minutes every hour is way too much fanning...Your chamber just isn't going to retain the proper humidity to pin.

Fan MANUALLY every 3 hours or so and mist after wards.

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OfflineSangoma
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: TeamAmerica]
    #12037009 - 02/15/10 10:01 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TeamAmerica said:
Quote:

Sangoma said:
FC conditions are 72F, 80% humidity, fan on a timer for about 15 minutes per hour, lights 14/10. Roughly the same as always. Straight WBS cased with 50/50+. I really hope it still pops but I get less and less optimistic with each passing day.





Dude 15 minutes every hour is way too much fanning...Your chamber just isn't going to retain the proper humidity to pin.

Fan MANUALLY every 3 hours or so and mist after wards.




I'm using a modified Shotgun FC with a fan oscillating away from the tub in a small room so I didn't think I was overdoing things but I will play around a little to try and find a better level of airflow. The reason I use a fan is because I am often away from my house from morning until night and therefore cannot fan every 3 hours. I always mist after I fan. Thanks for the thoughts and advice!


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OfflineTeamAmerica
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: Sangoma]
    #12037045 - 02/15/10 10:05 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sangoma said:
Quote:

TeamAmerica said:
Quote:

Sangoma said:
FC conditions are 72F, 80% humidity, fan on a timer for about 15 minutes per hour, lights 14/10. Roughly the same as always. Straight WBS cased with 50/50+. I really hope it still pops but I get less and less optimistic with each passing day.





Dude 15 minutes every hour is way too much fanning...Your chamber just isn't going to retain the proper humidity to pin.

Fan MANUALLY every 3 hours or so and mist after wards.




I'm using a modified Shotgun FC with a fan oscillating away from the tub in a small room so I didn't think I was overdoing things but I will play around a little to try and find a better level of airflow. The reason I use a fan is because I am often away from my house from morning until night and therefore cannot fan every 3 hours. I always mist after I fan. Thanks for the thoughts and advice!




You dont need anymore than 30 seconds of fanning...15 minutes every hour is just a guaranteed fail...

Even the smallest amount of airflow if it is constant will constantly displace the humidity in your chamber, OUTSIDE in to the other air. So turn off that fan unless you can make it come on less periodically.

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: TeamAmerica]
    #12037051 - 02/15/10 10:05 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TeamAmerica said:
Quote:

Sangoma said:
FC conditions are 72F, 80% humidity, fan on a timer for about 15 minutes per hour, lights 14/10. Roughly the same as always. Straight WBS cased with 50/50+. I really hope it still pops but I get less and less optimistic with each passing day.





Dude 15 minutes every hour is way too much fanning...Your chamber just isn't going to retain the proper humidity to pin.

Fan MANUALLY every 3 hours or so and mist after wards.





mist THEN fan, one of the best pinning triggers out there..

also if you do use a fan in your room definately have it pointing away from your FC, but i agree 15 minutes every hour is too much..

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OfflineTeamAmerica
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: biologys]
    #12037084 - 02/15/10 10:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
Quote:

TeamAmerica said:
Quote:

Sangoma said:
FC conditions are 72F, 80% humidity, fan on a timer for about 15 minutes per hour, lights 14/10. Roughly the same as always. Straight WBS cased with 50/50+. I really hope it still pops but I get less and less optimistic with each passing day.





Dude 15 minutes every hour is way too much fanning...Your chamber just isn't going to retain the proper humidity to pin.

Fan MANUALLY every 3 hours or so and mist after wards.





mist THEN fan, one of the best pinning triggers out there..

also if you do use a fan in your room definately have it pointing away from your FC, but i agree 15 minutes every hour is too much..





I like to mist afterwords and close the top as fast as possible to keep all that good mist in the chamber...:etbig:

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OfflineMOPE
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Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 831
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: TeamAmerica]
    #12037170 - 02/15/10 10:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TeamAmerica said:
Quote:

biologys said:
Quote:

TeamAmerica said:
Quote:

Sangoma said:
FC conditions are 72F, 80% humidity, fan on a timer for about 15 minutes per hour, lights 14/10. Roughly the same as always. Straight WBS cased with 50/50+. I really hope it still pops but I get less and less optimistic with each passing day.





Dude 15 minutes every hour is way too much fanning...Your chamber just isn't going to retain the proper humidity to pin.

Fan MANUALLY every 3 hours or so and mist after wards.





mist THEN fan, one of the best pinning triggers out there..

also if you do use a fan in your room definately have it pointing away from your FC, but i agree 15 minutes every hour is too much..





I like to mist afterwords and close the top as fast as possible to keep all that good mist in the chamber...:etbig:





TeamAmerica, you should mist first then fan.  moisture evaporating from the substrate is a big pinning trigger.


--------------------
Got used to the feeling of falling
But you'll never see me following
Bouncing back and forth between the healing and the hollering
Riding the outer ring of my own private saturn
Thoughts scattered all across the grey matter

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTeamAmerica
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Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 2,954
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: MOPE]
    #12037215 - 02/15/10 10:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

TeamAmerica, you should mist first then fan.  moisture evaporating from the substrate is a big pinning trigger.




Fanning isnt going to make it evaporate any better...

I like to keep the mist in there after I spray, so that all the tiny water droplets catch on the cake and evaporate off of it as the day goes on.

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OfflineMOPE
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Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 831
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: TeamAmerica]
    #12037259 - 02/15/10 10:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TeamAmerica said:

Fanning isnt going to make it evaporate any better...

I like to keep the mist in there after I spray, so that all the tiny water droplets catch on the cake and evaporate off of it as the day goes on.




actually, fanning does make water evaporate faster... click me


--------------------
Got used to the feeling of falling
But you'll never see me following
Bouncing back and forth between the healing and the hollering
Riding the outer ring of my own private saturn
Thoughts scattered all across the grey matter

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTeamAmerica
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Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 2,954
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: MOPE]
    #12037385 - 02/15/10 11:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MOPE said:
Quote:

TeamAmerica said:

Fanning isnt going to make it evaporate any better...

I like to keep the mist in there after I spray, so that all the tiny water droplets catch on the cake and evaporate off of it as the day goes on.




actually, fanning does make water evaporate faster... click me




IF you have a constant blowing wind it might help evaporate water off of an object or out of an object...but that's exactly the kind of wind that you DONT want for your FC or it will not stay humid.


But fanning a mycelium cake for 10 seconds and recovering it is a different story...

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OfflineMOPE
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Registered: 10/07/08
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: TeamAmerica]
    #12037443 - 02/15/10 11:25 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TeamAmerica said:
Quote:

MOPE said:
Quote:

TeamAmerica said:

Fanning isnt going to make it evaporate any better...

I like to keep the mist in there after I spray, so that all the tiny water droplets catch on the cake and evaporate off of it as the day goes on.




actually, fanning does make water evaporate faster... click me




IF you have a constant blowing wind it might help evaporate water off of an object or out of an object...but that's exactly the kind of wind that you DONT want for your FC or it will not stay humid.


But fanning a mycelium cake for 10 seconds and recovering it is a different story...




i'd have to disagree, id say 10-15 seconds of good fanning could evaporate enough water from the surface of the myc to be pretty beneficial. :shrug:I know that your myc shouldnt be exposed to direct, constant wind


--------------------
Got used to the feeling of falling
But you'll never see me following
Bouncing back and forth between the healing and the hollering
Riding the outer ring of my own private saturn
Thoughts scattered all across the grey matter

Edited by MOPE (02/15/10 11:26 PM)

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: MOPE]
    #12037470 - 02/15/10 11:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i fan from anywhere from 20-30 seconds and you can literally watch the water evaporate off the mushrooms and substrate...

as well i dont know if i was really fucked up but when my trays first started pinning i misted, then fanned and while i was fanning i saw something thought it was a pin popping up but was like no way im seeing shit, anyway i saw it again....so yeah i dont think i was seeing shit

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OfflineSangoma
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: biologys]
    #12037549 - 02/15/10 11:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for all the comments guys! I think it's awesome that everyone has their own slightly unique methods and thought processes. I greatly appreciate the advice and will implement it into my pinning strategy.


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OfflineTeamAmerica
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Re: Possible LC Genetic Failure (No Pins) [Re: biologys]
    #12038779 - 02/16/10 09:01 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

biologys said:
i fan from anywhere from 20-30 seconds and you can literally watch the water evaporate off the mushrooms and substrate...

as well i dont know if i was really fucked up but when my trays first started pinning i misted, then fanned and while i was fanning i saw something thought it was a pin popping up but was like no way im seeing shit, anyway i saw it again....so yeah i dont think i was seeing shit




I don't disagree that while you fan there might be very small molecules of h20 whisking away into the air...But 15 seconds of fanning is most likely just moving around the water droplets on the cake...Evaporation takes a little bit longer...

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