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Offlineevilturnip
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: appleorange]
    #11992956 - 02/09/10 01:04 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:

Notice that asians are on average smarter. White people are 3 times more likely to produce either a genius or someone with mental retardation.




That was never a part of your original argument.  If we were talking about *average* IQ, then that point didn't fall out.  I'll agree to that, but, it's not like Chinese don't have their share of geniuses.  Do you deny that Chinese could have invented rockets and the internet?  I think they only reason they didn't is because they developed in a different cultural context, and not because of anything to do with *average* IQ.  Both Chinese and Whites are perfectly capable of innovation and being productive members of society.

Quote:



Who creates the culture though? The race does.




Historically yes.. so what?  It's not like China couldn't have invented rockets or the internet by themselves at some point.  Just because history unfolded a certain way doesn't mean it couldn't have happened otherwise.

Quote:


Couple an 85 IQ with higher testosterone and you're far more likely to have someone who commits a crime.




Like I said there is no good evidence that they have higher testosterone.  Even if they did, you'd have to link testosterone tightly with *higher crime*.

In general, I'm not even sure what this entire thread is about. You say there are biological differences (which I don't dispute), and these result in different behaviors.  We're past racism, etc and all that.  But then you deny the strong possibility that at least an equal share of these differences can be a result of culture and environment (because the scientific evidence for this is also compelling).

It's not like someone gives birth to a 85-IQ high testosterone baby and all of a sudden when he turns 15 he starts committing random acts of violence.  You deny that someone can be taught otherwise, like it's in their nature to do these things.  All human abilities are innate to some extent, but they can be encouraged or discouraged. 

So, if, as you say, there's a strong biological element, what do you propose we do?  Continue to complain about it or foster an environment where those tendencies can be reduced and positive tendencies reinforced?

Edited by evilturnip (02/09/10 01:09 AM)

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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: evilturnip]
    #11992993 - 02/09/10 01:15 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

So, if, as you say, if there's a strong biological element, what do you propose we do?  Continue to complain about it or foster an environment where those tendencies can be reduced and positive tendencies reinforced?




I don't propose we do anything. I was talking to aghorrorag about testosterone and posted a government link stating the differences among blacks and whites in testosterone levels, then you butted in and went all jackie chan on my ass.

This thread was supposed to be about why people are racist, not discuss the biological aspects of each race.

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Offlineevilturnip
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: appleorange]
    #11993008 - 02/09/10 01:21 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:
I don't propose we do anything. I was talking to aghorrorag about testosterone and posted a government link stating the differences among blacks and whites in testosterone levels, then you butted in and went all jackie chan on my ass.

This thread was supposed to be about why people are racist, not discuss the biological aspects of each race.




Well, part of the reason people are racist is because of the uninformed and overblown caricatures that are made a result of scientific findings.  In this thread you claimed unequivocally that:

1.) Blacks have higher testosterone and therefore they commit more crimes
2.) Lower testosterone is linked with higher intelligence

I have no idea where either of those points are presented in the scientific literature as consensus fact.  If anything they might be *theories* that are still unsupported by evidence.  Just to be sure you know my position, I'd accept them if they were undisputed facts.  I just know that they aren't, which is the whole reason I chimed in in the first place.

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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: evilturnip]
    #11993058 - 02/09/10 01:36 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Write an email to the U.S. National Center For Biotechnology Information and tell them that you don't like the statistics they post on their website.

Here is their email:

info@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

As for testosterone correlating to levels of intelligence. I never conducted the study. Comenius University did. Here is their email:

kr@rec.uniba.sk

Quote:

Just to be sure you know my position, I'd accept them if they were undisputed facts.  I just know that they aren't, which is the whole reason I chimed in in the first place.




Turnip, I think you're a good guy, even though you're a big pain in the ass for making me argue for 2 pages about testosterone levels in negroes.


Edited by appleorange (02/09/10 01:44 AM)

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Offlineevilturnip
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: appleorange]
    #11993091 - 02/09/10 01:49 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:
Write an email to the U.S. National Center For Biotechnology Information and tell them that you don't like the statistics they post on their website.

Here is their email:

info@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov





What statistic don't I like?  I don't deny statistics.  I just disputed most of your claims, which are incorrect inferences from the scientific literature.

Quote:


As for testosterone correlating to levels of intelligence. I never conducted the study. Comenius University did. Here is their email:

kr@rec.uniba.sk




Except you didn't bother to read the study carefully.  Low testosterone is correlated both with high IQ *and* low IQ.  Plus, in females there is no correlation *at all*.  Finally, average IQ people have the *highest* level of testosterone.  They consider "average" 70-130 which is a *huge* range (95% of the population). 

So basically all the study says is that geniuses and mentally-retarded people have low testosterone.  Everyone else has high levels of testosterone.  Nothing like what you claimed.

Edited by evilturnip (02/09/10 01:57 AM)

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Offlineevilturnip
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: appleorange]
    #11993107 - 02/09/10 01:56 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:

Turnip, I think you're a good guy, even though you're a big pain in the ass for making me argue for 2 pages about testosterone levels in negroes.






I really don't know why I do it either...

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Offlineskippyluvs
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: appleorange]
    #11994405 - 02/09/10 10:20 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:
skip, I missed your post there.

I'm glad you brought that up.

Testosterone is correlated with sex. People with higher testosterone are likely to have more children and be more promiscuous than people with lower amounts of testosterone.

Japan and Europe also have the lowest birthrates of any other continent/country.




No problem, but I want to be clear that I wasn't particularly supporting any resonative correlation about it.

If what you say is true how do you explain the fact that almost half the world live in "Asia" (those with the lowest amounts of testosterone according to what you noted) and "White" as well as "Black" people having almost equal numbers if you add them all up (separately)?

Also, do you think your two examples(Japan and Europe) could be considered extremes especially when you take into consideration socioeconomic conditions as well?

Nice topic

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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: skippyluvs]
    #11995695 - 02/09/10 01:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

There's a lot of variables to take into account. Africa as it stands today has an average fertility rate of 7 children per mother in some countries. It's the highest of any other continent.

As far back as 200BC, China has always had an extremely large population compared to other countries and most people attribute this to two reasons. The emphasis on agricultural life in China and China's strict military policies that required 1 in every 5 males to enlist.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: appleorange]
    #11995852 - 02/09/10 02:15 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


In the span of a 100 years, America has shifted from being one of the most racist countries in the world to being the most embracing and tolerant. Are we a more wiser and intelligent nation than we were in 1900 or have our views on race simply changed?




I'd say it was a good move. From what I know of social psychology, in-group and out-group are very flexible. Everyone makes an in-group and an out-group, but what categories they use vary greatly. It is far more beneficial to keep everyone in a country, at least on the surface (societal conditioning), in the in-group. If we look closer, it isn't just racism that occurs from this in-group and out-group formation. The rich hang out with the rich. The poor hang out with the poor. The athletes with the athletes. The nerds with the nerds. And on and on this process of identity goes.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: Kickle]
    #11996139 - 02/09/10 02:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

...and the druggies with the druggies! :awedrugs:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: Poid]
    #11996208 - 02/09/10 03:04 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:feelsgoodman:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: Kickle]
    #11996676 - 02/09/10 04:20 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:highfive:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: appleorange]
    #11996713 - 02/09/10 04:26 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:
Quote:

So, if, as you say, if there's a strong biological element, what do you propose we do?  Continue to complain about it or foster an environment where those tendencies can be reduced and positive tendencies reinforced?




I don't propose we do anything. I was talking to aghorrorag about testosterone and posted a government link stating the differences among blacks and whites in testosterone levels, then you butted in and went all jackie chan on my ass.

This thread was supposed to be about why people are racist, not discuss the biological aspects of each race.





If you were talking to me, why didn't you address my point that it is possible african americans have higher testosterone because of slavery, only biggest and strongest black survived?


--------------------
My entire Life is defined by this link. I beg of you to read: https://www.facebook.com/notes/tsafir-kamel/a-compassionate-message-for-jews-and-christians/10150614597334779

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: aghorrorag]
    #11999599 - 02/10/10 12:14 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Race is not a biological concept, it's a social phenomena. There are clines (a gradual change in some phenotypic characteristic from one population to the next), but there aren't races.

Robert Lewontin found that the so-called races accounted for only about 5% to 10% of the genetic diversity. In other words, most variation occurred across human populations regardless of "racial" makeup.

Subsequent studies by other scientists--of wide-ranging characteristics such as genetic traits and cranial morphology--have all shown the same thing: so-called races account for a very small amount of biological variation. Multiple biological traits do not lead to clear-cut racial classifications because traits simply do not agree in their frequency or distribution.

... Human variation, then, cannot be subdivided into racial categories. As said best by the physical anthropologist Frank B. Livingstone, "There are no races, there are only clines." Human variation can be understood far more meaningfully in terms of life history, the biology of growth and development.


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Offlineevilturnip
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: learningtofly]
    #12000019 - 02/10/10 02:43 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Race is not a biological concept, it's a social phenomena. There are clines (a gradual change in some phenotypic characteristic from one population to the next), but there aren't races.

Robert Lewontin found that the so-called races accounted for only about 5% to 10% of the genetic diversity. In other words, most variation occurred across human populations regardless of "racial" makeup.

Subsequent studies by other scientists--of wide-ranging characteristics such as genetic traits and cranial morphology--have all shown the same thing: so-called races account for a very small amount of biological variation. Multiple biological traits do not lead to clear-cut racial classifications because traits simply do not agree in their frequency or distribution.

... Human variation, then, cannot be subdivided into racial categories. As said best by the physical anthropologist Frank B. Livingstone, "There are no races, there are only clines." Human variation can be understood far more meaningfully in terms of life history, the biology of growth and development.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin's_Fallacy

While I agree it is difficult to draw generalizations about race, it doesn't mean they don't exist. 

Also, simply because there is a clinal relationship (ie a continuum in human genetic diversity), it doesn't mean that you can't necessarily make any classifications.  It's a continuum fallacy to assert that you can't:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy

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Offlineevilturnip
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: appleorange]
    #12000047 - 02/10/10 03:03 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:
As far back as 200BC, China has always had an extremely large population compared to other countries and most people attribute this to two reasons. The emphasis on agricultural life in China and China's strict military policies that required 1 in every 5 males to enlist.




So you're admitting social factors can override any potential biological factors that would lead to another outcome?

If Africa has a large fertility rate, you seem to imply it's because of African's genes.  Well, if so, how come American blacks have a lower fertility rate than their African counterparts (they're certainly not having 7 children)?  If it's in their genes, what's gone wrong?  Unless, of course, *even if* it's in their genes, it seems social factors pretty much override any biological factors.

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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: evilturnip]
    #12001318 - 02/10/10 10:34 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Here are some definitions of race I wrote down in one of my classes:

• A collection of populations, separated from others by major geographic barriers
• A breeding population adapted to local selection pressures and maintained by either natural or social barriers to gene flow.
• A group of individuals geographically determined who share a common gene pool and varying combinations of distinguishing characteristics
• a distinct evolutionary lineage within a species


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Offlineevilturnip
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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: learningtofly]
    #12001665 - 02/10/10 11:34 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Here are some definitions of race I wrote down in one of my classes:

• A collection of populations, separated from others by major geographic barriers
• A breeding population adapted to local selection pressures and maintained by either natural or social barriers to gene flow.
• A group of individuals geographically determined who share a common gene pool and varying combinations of distinguishing characteristics
• a distinct evolutionary lineage within a species




Yes, I'm adhering to the population genetics concept of race.  Not sure if any of the above accurately reflect it:

"Races are genetically distinct Mendelian populations. They are neither individuals nor particular genotypes, they consist of individuals who differ genetically among themselves."

This definition both allows for clinal gradations and geographic non-locality.  They are classifications based on cluster analysis over multiple genetic loci.

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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: learningtofly]
    #12002342 - 02/10/10 01:14 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

A breeding population adapted to local selection pressures and maintained by either natural or social barriers to gene flow.

Race is at least partially genetic.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Why Are We Racist? [Re: Poid]
    #12002659 - 02/10/10 01:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Race is a complicated thing. I think even geneticists who are in a better position to argue about this than we can could easily divide themselves amongst camps as to what race is exactly.

I'm not posting this article in response to anyone else's replies, just because it seems relevant to the thread.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The K9 Comparison—What Dogs Tell Us About Humans

By Frank Miele

We share about 97% of our genes with chimpanzees. But when Francis Crick, co-discoverer with James D. Watson of the double helix structure of DNA, was asked what unraveling the chimpanzee genome would tell us about human differences he replied: “I wouldn’t waste any American money on the chimp”.

The dog genome, Crick went on, would be a better target—because dogs vary so widely in appearance and behavior that unraveling their DNA would reveal much more about the influence of genes.

Canine evolution, because of dog breeding, has been run in fast forward—in some cases, before our very eyes.

In an informative experiment, Dmitry Balyaev selectively bred foxes [PDF] to show neither fear nor aggression when approached by humans. But the foxes changed in more than just their behavior. They developed floppy ears, short or curly tails, an extended reproductive cycle—successive generations literally becoming more dog-like before the experimenter’s eyes—probably the result of changes in hormone levels.

And a recent study by the Max Planck Institute has demonstrated that that in certain cognitive tasks our canine best friends are more like us than are our simian nearest relatives. Fourteen-month old humans and almost any dog, but not even the brightest chimp, can use human pointing as a cue to find a food reward. Researchers Brian Hare and Mike Tomasello concluded [PDF] that this ability is heritable and due to recent selection, since wolves cannot do it.

Dog breeds provide the classic case study of within-species differentiation. Those who would dismiss race and race differences regularly point out that DNA differences between races are minimal. But , as Vincent Sarich demonstrated in Race: The Reality of Human Differences (pp. 170 – 173) human racial differences in morphology are greater than in any non-domesticated species. They are around ten times the difference between the sexes within each race and larger than the differences that distinguish the two species of chimpanzee. Despite minimal genetic differences, human physical racial differences are clearly observable.

Likewise for dogs. But only recently has genetic analysis been able to distinguish between breeds—or even between dogs and wolves.

All the differences in body shape, size, color, internal chemistry, and behavior between the hundreds of breeds recognized by the American Kennel Club, the Kennel Club UK, and the Fédération Cynologique Internationale (the World Canine Federation) are based on very few genes.

But while it’s OK to talk about differences among dog breeds, not so for human races. Unfortunately, this has been true even in scientific circles. And that in itself is instructive.

The classic study was carried out by Daniel G. Freedman for his doctoral dissertation. Freedman spent every day and evening rearing four dog breeds—Beagles, Wire-haired Fox Terriers, Shetland Sheepdogs, and Basenjis—from age two to twelve weeks.[See Constitutional and Environmental Interactions in Rearing of Four Breeds of Dogs D. G. FREEDMAN, Science March 14, 1958 (Pay archive)]

He noticed that as soon as their ears and eyes opened, the breeds differed in behavior. Little Beagles were friendly from the moment they detected him. Shetland Sheepdogs were the most sensitive to a loud voice or the slightest punishment. The Wire-haired Fox Terriers were so tough and aggressive, even as clumsy three-week olds, that Freedman had to wear gloves in playing with them The Basenjis, barkless dogs from central Africa, were aloof and independent.

Many of today’s breed differences are cosmetic. But originally breeds were selected to excel in certain elements of the basic wolf-dog ethogram [behavioral repertoire] and reduce or eliminate others. All of these differences, including the barklessness of the Basenji, make perfect sense in terms of what we know about the traits for which the different breeds were, or were not, selected.

Beagles are scent hounds. They run in packs and use their sense of smell, which is better than that of almost all other breeds, to track fox and other small game.

They have been selected not only for increased olfactory tracking ability, but also diminished aggression. Beagles are a band of brothers (often literally). They all have a job to do. They are usually kenneled together, and howl to other members of the pack when finding a scent or needing help.

Fox hunting is sometimes called “riding to hounds” because that is what one does, mounted on horseback and following the pack as its members pick up the fox’s scent.

Fox Terriers come in two varieties, Wire-haired and Smooth-haired, but this is largely a cosmetic difference. Like Beagles, they were bred for fox hunting, but their job is quite different. The Fox Terrier literally gets a free ride in the hunter’s saddlebag—at least, that is, until the fox, as they say, “goes to earth”. No fun that for the hunters because it ends the chase and their chance to bag the fox. Game to the fox…or so it would seem.

But this is where the terrier earns his seemingly free ride and free lunches. The hunter grabs him by his short tail and hurls him to the ground. His job is to run into the den and convince the fox to resume the game by “making him an offer he can’t refuse”.

No beagle in his right mind would want any part of this. Terriers, on the other hand, are born scrappers. There is a reason why we have the expression “a pack of hounds”, but not “a pack of terriers”. Rather than a peaceful assembly the latter would quickly become a canine gladiatorial.

Even the smallest terrier, like the Jack Russell (made famous by the TV shows Frasier and Wishbone) thinks nothing about taking on a Rottweiler or a Pit Bull. Hence another dog saying: “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog”.

Among terriers, “two’s company, three’s battle royal”. Many people have purchased Jack Russells, thinking they’ll have a companion like the one on TV, only to find they’ve brought a canine Mike Tyson into their house. (With its recent popularity, breeders have started to select for less aggressiveness in the Jack Russells. Dedicated fanciers of any breed will tell you the worst thing that can happen is for it to become popular overnight because of some movie or television show. The heightened demand is met by the unscrupulous “puppy mills”. And even a dog from a reputable breeder can end up with an owner or family totally unsuited for him.)

The third breed in Freedman study: the Shetland Sheepdog, often affectionately termed “Shelties”, or incorrectly, and to the great annoyance of their owners, “Miniature Collies”. They are indeed sheep herding, not sheep protecting, dogs.

The Sheltie motto is “herd ‘ em, don’t hurt ‘em”. They have been selected for being very responsive to commands from humans and for inhibiting the part of their wolf ancestry that says “look at all that nice mutton, here for the taking”.

Shelties are excellent dogs for obedience training and competition. When I took my Great Dane, Payce, to K9 obedience school he was the second-best pupil in the class. A Sheltie was Number 1.

One of the most basic behaviors taught in obedience school is for the dog to walk alongside the handler and stop and sit as soon as the handler halts, its front paws parallel with the handler’s toes.

Payce had no trouble learning to sit. At 127 pounds and over 6 feet tall when he gets up on his hind legs, however, it wasn’t that easy for him to put on the brakes and stop on a dime. The Sheltie almost always stopped and sat dead even with her handler.

Then one time the Sheltie goofed and ended up about six inches out in front. She looked around, and quickly backed up until her front paws were dead even with her handler toes, hoping he wouldn’t notice—very much as I had in basic training, hoping to avoid the gaze of the drill instructor.

Everyone in the obedience class noticed the Sheltie’s miscue and attempted cover-up. The instructor—quite unlike my DI—pointed to it gleefully as an example of just how much the dogs can learn. Shelties been selected for both canine IQ and canine conscientiousness.

Fourth in the Freedman study: the Basenji.

Basenijis are more recently domesticated than most of the better-known breeds. Like wolves, they have never added barking to their behavioral repertoire. (Barking may be an exaggeration of the pup calling to its mother which human selection has enhanced as a means of dog-master communication).

With their tails carried up in a corkscrew, Basenjis belong to a group called pariah dogs, which includes semi-domesticated breeds around the world. (When humans cease selective breeding of dogs, the distinctive breed traits disappear, the surviving dogs take on a pariah-like appearance and the full wolf-canine behavioral repertoire resurfaces.)

Basenjis do not lack canine IQ, but they are at the opposite pole from the Shelties in conscientiousness. They don’t like taking orders from their owners. They are born canine scofflaws.

In another classic study, experimenters put some dog chow out for the pups and told them “No!” Then they would leave the room to observe the pups through a one-way mirror to see if they would go for food. If they did, the experimenter would go back into the room and scold them “No!” while also swatting them on their backside, painlessly, with a newspaper. [Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog, By John Paul Scott and John L. Fuller]

Shelties are so given to inhibiting, they wouldn’t touch the food. Some of them even had to be hand-nursed back into feeding again. Basenjis, on the other hand, started to chow down the minute the experimenter turned his back, before he even left the room.

A third study compared the same four breeds in getting through a series of increasingly difficult mazes. The breed differences were not in the ability to master the mazes (a rough measure of canine IQ) but in what they would do when placed a maze they couldn’t master.

The Beagles howled, hoping that another member of their pack would howl back and lead them to the goal. The inhibitory Shelties simply laid down on the ground and waited. The pugnacious Fox Terriers tried to tear down the walls of the maze. The Basenjis saw no reason to play by the rules and began jumping over walls of the maze.

But what does this have to do with humans? Professor Freedman wrote that

“I had worked with different breeds of dogs and I had been struck by how predictable was the behavior of each breed. A breed of dog is a construct zoologically and genetically equivalent to a race of man. To look at us, my wife and I [Freedman is Jewish; his wife Chinese], my wife and I were clearly of two different breeds. Were some of our behavioral differences determined by breed?” [Human Sociobiology: A Holistic Approach]

Freedman and his wife set about designing experiments to test that hypothesis. Their story is interesting not just for its scientific results and for the different receptions they received in even the most prestigious scientific journals.

The Freedmans decided to observe the behavior of newborns and infants of different races using the Cambridge Behavioral and Neurological Assessment Scale. Unlike the typical reflex tests performed by pediatricians, these tests, called the “Brazelton” after their developer, measure social and emotional behavior. [The Manner Born: Birth Rites in Cross-Cultural Perspective, Chapter 13, Ethnic Differences in Babies]

The Freedmans found that European American and Chinese American newborns reacted differently even though hospital conditions and prenatal care were the same.

White babies started to cry more easily, and once they started, they were more difficult to console. Chinese babies adapted to almost any position in which they were placed. When placed face down in their cribs, they tended to keep their faces buried in the sheets rather than immediately turning to one side, as did the Whites.

In a maneuver called the “defense reaction” by neurologists, the baby’s nose was briefly pressed with a cloth, forcing him to breathe with his mouth. Most Caucasian and black babies fight the maneuver by immediately turning away or swiping at the cloth with their hands. Not surprisingly, this is listed in Western pediatric textbooks as the normal, expected response.

But not so the average Chinese babies in the study. They simply lay on their back, breathing from the mouth, “accepting” the cloth without a fight.

There were other more subtle differences. While both Chinese and Caucasian infants would start to cry at about the same point in the examination, especially when they were being undressed, Chinese babies stopped crying immediately, while Caucasian babies quieted only gradually.

The Freedman noted that the film of their finding left audiences awestruck by the group differences.

They then tested Navajo babies. Anthropology, linguistics, and DNA agree that Amerinds have a relatively recent Asian origin. And the behavior of the Navajo babies was indeed like that of the Chinese-Americans, not the Whites.

Freedman submitted the paper on racial differences in neonate behavior to Science, the most prestigious scientific journal in the U.S. It had published his study behavioral differences in pups of different dog breeds without any problem or controversy.

The paper on race differences, however, was rejected by a split vote of the reviewers.

Freedman then submitted it to Nature, the British analogue to Science. It again received a split decision from the judges. Fortunately, the editor broke the deadlock by casting his deciding vote in favor of publication. [Behavioural Differences between Chinese–American and European–American Newborns D. G. Freedman & Nina Chinn Freedman, Nature December 20, 1969]

Freedman’s studies are important because they used a comparable experimental design for humans and dogs. And although our society does not automatically consider being more or less active as being better or worse, unlike IQ, differences, race differences in behavior among humans were viewed even by scientists as too hot to handle.

Group differences can be a life or death issue in which ideology should have no place. Take pharmacogenetics, the study of genetic differences in the tolerance and effectiveness of medicinal drugs.

Breed differences are taken for granted in the Veterinary Drug Handbook (analogous to the Physician’s Desk Reference). Two examples

* Ivermectin

The active ingredient in the most commonly prescribed medicine for prevention of heart worms, it is quite safe used in the proper dosage, killing the parasites without having any adverse effect on the dog—except for Collies, Collie-like breeds, and Collie-mixes. For them, the same amount of Ivermectin that wouldn’t faze a Chihuahua can be fatal.

* Thiopental

This ultra-short acting tranquilizer is potentially lethal for greyhounds, whippets, and similar breeds. The lightly-built coursing and racing dogs carry more muscle and much less fat than other breeds. Fat is able to take up more barbiturate than muscle. Coursers take much longer to metabolize the drug in their system. Veterinarians use different tranquilizers

Does race have any place in human medicine? The answer increasingly is “yes”.

* Hypertension

African American patients, on average, do not benefit as much as whites from ACE (Angiotensin Converting Enzyme) inhibitors, a standard treatment for heart failure.

This is probably because of race differences in nitric oxide, which is produced by the cells that line our blood vessels and dampens contraction of the muscle cells, relaxing the vessels and lowering blood pressure. Blacks are more likely than whites to have nitric oxide insufficiency. Why, no one currently knows.

Jay N. Cohn, a professor of medicine at the University of Minnesota School of Medicine, has patented a drug called BiDil which is a combination diuretic and vessel dilator that replenishes nitric oxide. The Food and Drug Administration authorized the testing of BiDil, the Association of Black Cardiologists has recruited patients, and the Congressional Black Caucus has supported the project. And with good cause—Blacks have twice the rate of heart failure as whites, and those afflicted are twice as likely to die.

* Tuberculosis

Isoniazid was introduced soon after the end of WWII to combat tuberculosis. It was soon found that the drug was not very effective in Eskimos because they have a variant enzyme which metabolizes the drug so rapidly that it never has a chance to be effective.

At least in medicine, humanitarianism and common sense are increasingly trumping ideology for humans as well as for dogs.

The take-home lessons from our brief look at ourselves, our best friends, and our nearest relatives are:

* Small DNA differences can produce large and significant differences in body shape, size, internal chemistry, and even behavior and cognition.

* Changes in all three are often linked because of the action of a small number of “regulator” (master) genes.

* When the selection pressure is high enough, changes can take place in a very short time—the stronger the pressure, the less evolutionary time required

* These differences can be of vital importance in both human and veterinary medicine—and in human behavior.

One can only hope that we can learn to handle group differences in humans as intelligently and humanely as we do those in dogs.

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