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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video)
    #11969609 - 02/05/10 02:18 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Personal Philosophy is the only kind.

The basic problem is the self, not what is subsequently regarded as its sufferings and anxieties. In respect to this self, I am going to initiate the discussion in these specific regards.

First, to Icelander, who questions the authenticity of my language: I’ve attempted to assume responsibility, first questioning whether my significations are clear, and then self-analytically, as to whether this body of words (doctrine)  might be a cover or shield to myself, even if they do make sense. But it occurs to me that I can’t even answer this question for myself, let alone in regards to an additional person.

Let's burst this bubble, I am all for it. I do not think your complaints are towards the words I've chosen, but more conveniently for you, a gripe with language in general. But it does seem like a bubble might best be popped from the vantage of an outsider, especially if signification were considered in its genesis or "original conception". If signification is at its heart, based on its original conception; that is, as something communal/communicative, then what follows as signification can take at most "equal" precedence to communication. If we then acknowledge that signification and communication are here in conflict, and cannot be in "equal precedence", we also see this Gigantomachy of personalities for what it is.

So what follows as "secular" signification, we may regard as the ideal of closed system between signifier and signified. This cannot be upheld, on any grounds but pure egotism. And still, even that cannot be held,if it is to be regarded as communicative and significant. This signification itself must burst out to meet the other, and leave unguarded what becomes apparent as its inherent contradictions. At very most, and at the very least it is a game. Legitimately or not, I am here provoking conditions at the hearth of language, and initiating a particularly impossible game: ...of the ego in its bare nudity, in respect and revolt to its  dress of language.

I am also thinking of Lakefingers, whom in past discussions has remarked upon the communicative medium (artistic, political, economic etc) in respect to the person (and the personalism) providing insight into the “proper conduct” of philosophy – but has further come to embody moderation and discretion.

Also, to Rebus minus, whom I am not yet well acquainted with, but will also provoke for his intrigue with even more basic “selving”.

So there it is, I have roughly composed three layers of self, but each significantly/communally in respect to selves: the world, the medium, and metaphysics. Of course, these are not strict lines, and they overlap and circle back to each other. The lines are only succinct as personal equipment I have drawn them with.

But following this belligerent manner of organization, might I further reveal my pretensions to say nothing at all? Here is the bursting point, and I am not so honorable skilled, or enlightened to do it myself. I can only drop a certain artifact. Here, I reveal what I would better hide as pure idolatry, faith, and attachment. I am like a flasher: At once, I do and do not entertain that this satisfies the presently paradoxical broken line of communication. The only excuse I have is "too human", but I am confident that it is a quite satisfactory excuse too:

This will make much more sense after you watch:



(Discuss)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: daytripper23]
    #11969839 - 02/05/10 02:52 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What?:confused:

Is this about being self absorbed? Or full of oneself with delusions of grandeur?

I wish I still had my keyboard now. I didn't know you didn't have to be able to actually play music to be in a big new york band.

Psycho drama?

Scream therapy?

Assholes they are?

Never needed to be convinced of that.

Wtf is your point?

Or.

Can you put this all into one simple sentence cause  I can't tell wtf point you are trying to make.


As usual. It was sneaky of you to put my name in there. Otherwise I could have saved myself from all that. :wink:

Can't believe I tried. I should have known better. But I think I got it this time.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/05/10 03:04 PM)

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Male

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: Icelander]
    #11970966 - 02/05/10 05:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

A point? A prick!

Skewering the silence.

We're using different keyboards here, but they work the same. Since you do have a kind of keyboard, all you have to do is poke a single key to make a point.

Is it philosophy? Is that music?

My point, a starting point, is that a point cannot be anything in itself. It can only become significant as an interval, or "block", where points have become communal. By that I mean that music could only be the interrelatedness of notes, and the association between words, a language. Right?

But what I am also describing as communal is not merely an inner relatedness, like for instance, what is represented in logic, or music theory, as the so called objective significance. Yet I can only describe this "relatedness" in what sense I can make of it - in a closed system.

What I am speaking of as communal, to which my words may only allude, is the eruption of a point that is radically other. Before it is an interrelation, it comes from the outside, even if it is only understood after, in the closed and comfortable terms of intrinsic definition.

Even having formed a "block" - a series of tones or words - a genre, or a philosophy; that does not guarantee or assert significance, does it? The development of language from guttural noises does not necessarily make the human, or his language meaningful, right? In fact, just when we consider them significant, we have again asserted them as closed points! - These "blocks" may seem to make more elaborate or articulate points, but they are only asserted (in their pointedness) in the same guttural mannerism as the original, eruptive, yet inarticulate point. This may be acknowledged, or hidden in the foliage of language. It may be a closed doctrine, a "scene", or of any form that can close in on itself to again be intrinsically defined, "individual", of singular, assertive nature - a point!

But we have to make points. What occurs when we acknowledge this?

Edited by daytripper23 (02/05/10 08:30 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: daytripper23]
    #11971007 - 02/05/10 05:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:lol: Are you for real? I have no idea what you are saying. Maybe because it's what Moshe Feldenkrais  called the "elusive obvious". In other words it's a simple and basic idea I could easily understand and respond to if you could for one minute get off your high horse and speak in a way I could understand. You obfuscate everything imo. Maybe because you have little really to say. I don't know. But if your next post doesn't clarify this I'm outta here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Male

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: Icelander]
    #11971633 - 02/05/10 07:25 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Why would you think I have something to say, or some grand preconceived point? Am I supposed to be providing worthwhile knowledge or something? What I "know" is probably found somewhere in my internal digestive process, and I don't see how either of us would benefit from me puking it up.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: daytripper23]
    #11971777 - 02/05/10 07:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:kaboom: :bye:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: Icelander]
    #12029982 - 02/14/10 07:47 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

hmmm I am having a hard time too...


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: daytripper23]
    #12030269 - 02/14/10 08:35 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Why would you think I have something to say, or some grand preconceived point? Am I supposed to be providing worthwhile knowledge or something?




Don't tell me you're a structuralist... (I might not even be using that word properly; at least I feel like your elusive obvious has gotten a bit clearer lately.)

Edit: perhaps you have fallen into the snare of language; significance and signification is an illusion.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: andrewss]
    #12030378 - 02/14/10 08:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

andrewss said:
hmmm I am having a hard time too...




Who can take him seriously.:confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: Icelander]
    #12031670 - 02/15/10 12:40 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

hes good poster :chugbeer:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: andrewss]
    #12031700 - 02/15/10 12:47 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

andrewss said:
hes good poster :chugbeer:




:thumbup:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: andrewss]
    #12032343 - 02/15/10 06:41 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

andrewss said:
hes good poster :chugbeer:





Could have fooled me but then a lot of folk think gomp is a genius.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: Icelander]
    #12032707 - 02/15/10 09:22 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, Icelander, the Bell Curve applies even here. :satansmoking:

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #12032794 - 02/15/10 09:46 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #12032955 - 02/15/10 10:23 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: Lakefingers]
    #12032978 - 02/15/10 10:27 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:lol:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: daytripper23]
    #12032997 - 02/15/10 10:32 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

seen the vid.

Yes, we're all assholes here. SQ!

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: Lakefingers]
    #12032998 - 02/15/10 10:32 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Icelander's just depressed, grumpy and all prajna-wild. Don't buy into his bullying. :lol:

Not depressed hardly at all these days. Still calling a spade a spade as I see it. This guy is deliberately obtuse. Now why would someone do that if they really had something to say?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: andrewss]
    #12033033 - 02/15/10 10:40 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

andrewss:
Lemme me open a pilsner to that.
:cheers:

Icelander:
You're butthurt. :lol:
I like that he's obtuse. Kind of like listening to machinery in an industrial area and hearing music. We know you're still stuck in 3/4 and 4/4 major/minor though. :tongue:

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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Daytripper and John Zorn on the problem. (video) [Re: Lakefingers]
    #12033043 - 02/15/10 10:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Much too early for me here to join you with that (I aint no daydrinker :curbyourenthusiasm: )


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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