Home | Community | Message Board

Kratom Eye
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
OfflineShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 4,435
Loc: A Psychedelic State Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
Re: help on mesc extraction from peyote with pure lab chems [Re: dwpineal]
    #11983182 - 02/07/10 06:45 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I feel that a psychedelic chemist -  the right person - in many ways can be the above things. There are amazingly caring people that put a lot of love into their work, into the community at large, and do it for the healing of the human consciousness on the planet. The current drug war hysteria causes the relationship of the psychedelic chemist to be different in the community  - but it does not change the love, the intent, the healing intentions.




Although i will agree that there are some amazing folks at the forefront of psychedelic chemistry none of them produce anything that acts as an enculturating force. Peyote reinforces the ancient cosmology of a variety of peoples and serves to tie in and bond them in the traditions it has been functioning in for Millenia. LSD emerged in the amalgamation of western consciousness and had no specific cultural backdrop to descend from. There was no thousands of years of tradition backing it, the culture in which it took the forefront was totally contemporary. The use was not for securing the favor of the Gods for crops, or calling rain.

  I think It's wrong to call a chemist a shaman in light of the fact that a chemist functions on an other than strictly survival basis. Shamans function out of a survival based need. They are both important roles in their respective societies but a chemist is not a shaman. I think certainly the majority of chemists would agree. Undoubtedly, most indigenous healers do not feel what they are doing is for "the healing of human consciousness on the planet". What they do is perform a much more practical, functioning role within a specific communal cosmology.

I see some of us are still caught up in this false perception of cultural universalism that so plagues the American mind.

" its all from the same place. A chemist is a shaman. Alchemy is the same as native healing. All roads lead to the same thing"

I come to challenge such pigeonholed new-agey paradigms of thought and i'm seen as nitpicky, confrontational. However im no stranger to having my perceptions shattered so I sympathize with some of you for feeling the way you do about me. I assure you my intentions are pure : i am here for the benefit of you guys and this medicine. :yesnod:


If you really want i can take your "chemist/shaman" idea over to the New Age Fraud forums and have several Federally Recognized Native Tribe members pick that argument to shreds but i think ive provided enough detail already to get my point across.


--------------------


Edited by ShroomDoom (02/07/10 06:52 PM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibledwpineal
Psychedelic Artist
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4,667
Re: help on mesc extraction from peyote with pure lab chems [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #11983409 - 02/07/10 07:26 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You make some excellent points. I also agree that the majority of chemists would agree with you. Maybe even the majority of psychedelic chemists...

I did make a broad statement about healing the consciousness of humanity. You are indicating that shamanism is a more personal act, and also has more specific functions.

I still am not moved in the belief that the psychedelic chemist views every dose as a (I hesitate to say medicine, but maybe) Eucharist for transformation for each person that comes into contact with the molecule. Something that each person can take into themselves and have personally healing and life changing experiences.

Do you doubt the medicinal powers of psychedelics in general? I've been following what science has been allowed and it appears that healing can come from many different psychedelic molecules and healing can take many forms (cluster headaches, post-traumatic stress disorder, end-of-life depression, etc).

There is not a framework that is long entrenched and established - this is something much less organized. Organized religion is not for everyone.

I believe that psychedelic chemist may in fact act as enculturating forces. Look at the offshoots of psychedelic culture - raves, jam band tours, visionary art - and this is while it is all completely illegal. No framework is allowed to be developed so we as a community of users of psychedelic molecules are left to create our own culture. In fact this website is an extension of the digital psychedelic culture.

New Bonds and new traditions are being created as a result of the variety of factors.

I also believe that the psychedelic chemist performs a practical, functioning role within a specific communal cosmology. Within the named and unnamed cultural offshoots of users of psychedelic molecules (forgot to mention Burning Man), the chemist takes on the role of providing the Active Host. It is the communion that allows the community to know that they are a face of God and so is everything else. He helps people find focus, create their own internal moral compasses.

Just having fun with the debate :smile:

ALL LOVE,
DW


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 4,435
Loc: A Psychedelic State Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
Re: help on mesc extraction from peyote with pure lab chems [Re: dwpineal]
    #11984179 - 02/07/10 09:43 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Although i agree that the chemist might serve a major part in the burning man, rave and other subcultures I think its a less than direct participation. For if the chemist were to lead the ritual partaking of his sacrament he would become somewhat exposed and more succeptable to the oppressive forces of the U.S. laws that demonize such sacraments. In this way the chemist cannot be a shaman because he is not at the forefront of the ritual process. He merely provides the catalyst, and usually anonymously.

You are onto something here though, dwpineal. It strikes me as no surprise that certain modern cultural contexts would develop to surround the use of these substances but we have to ask what specific function does this serve on a societal level? The motives obviously are a little more centered on personal elucidation, or thrill seeking. though the partaking of drugs is communal in these contexts it's not quite the same as an indigenous community partaking a sacrament. From what I have gathered of the burner community its filled with paradoxes. I have heard as many drug enlightenment stories as i have heard horror stories coming from the playa.

I would not be so quick to label the chemists creation as something only capable of benevolent effects. Many times powerful substances fall into ill-equipped hands (or minds should i say) and heavy consequences are reaped. Also the motivations of a chemist are unique to that indivual. Its unsafe to assume that a psychedelic chemist has only the benefit of the drug user in mind. Especially when profit is usually a big factor.

I can't really identify with your idealism about the motives of clandestine chemists. I do respect your viewpoint however, and i think we both have an understanding of the greater importance of what the chemist does when the right medicine makes it into the right hands in the right space/time.

good talkin with ya dwpineal. Im out.


Edited by ShroomDoom (02/07/10 09:53 PM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
Re: help on mesc extraction from peyote with pure lab chems [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #11984448 - 02/07/10 10:21 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I called you nitpicky and argumentative not for questioning my 'new age' framework, but for ignoring the totality and ultimate message of my post and focusing on a mere sentence or two. A sentence or two that was relatively insignificant to my greater position...

I didn't put my entire cosmology into the chemist is shaman comparison, and my perceptions are not being shattered here. I don't really know what a shaman is, and I don't really think you do either. And if you did, it would be your own subjective opinion, and couldn't really be put up against mine in an argument.

The point I was trying to make, before this epic digression, is that there is no correct or incorrect way to use the plants. Only your cultural conditioning can dictate the proper way to use them.

Most cultures allow and encourage the use of only one or two mind altering substances or plants and demonize all others. Do you really think the peyote using cultures are not guilty of this? Don't you think this same phenomenon occurs with the uses of these substances as well?

It's just cultural stuff. If YOU have a relationship with the cactus, it doesn't matter if you take it and pray for rain, or if you take it and let the cactus heal you by spending the day feeling good... or is there something wrong with feeling good from a cactus just because it can be used for more important things?


--------------------
“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine
 User Gallery


Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 4,435
Loc: A Psychedelic State Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
Re: help on mesc extraction from peyote with pure lab chems [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #11984553 - 02/07/10 10:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

A sentence or two that was relatively insignificant to my greater position...




Not really. In my opinion it was relevant to point out the faulty comparisons you are drawing between two ostensibly different roles. Also you were flat out mistaken about the background of the NAC's traditions. Im just not going to let you sit here and spew nonsense about traditions that i have way too much respect for.

The rest of your post i agreed with. With the exception of the proposal that chemistry is some kind of higher process beyond the plant's spirit that is the "next step". I don't agree that we need to exploit these plants to unlock their true potential.

Quote:

ReoSpeedwagon153 said:
I If YOU have a relationship with the cactus, it doesn't matter if you take it and pray for rain, or if you take it and let the cactus heal you by spending the day feeling good... or is there something wrong with feeling good from a cactus just because it can be used for more important things?





theres nothing wrong with him taking it to feel good.

there is something wrong with ripping 500 grams from the ground for an extraction.


Edited by ShroomDoom (02/07/10 10:50 PM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibledwpineal
Psychedelic Artist
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4,667
Re: help on mesc extraction from peyote with pure lab chems [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #11987275 - 02/08/10 01:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I enjoyed your response greatly and really agree with not only the words you write, but the heart they flow from.

Out of curiosity how many grams would a person take normally? Give maybe a range of small to large dose - thanks!

Reo - I feel you too my brother!


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlineq-bert
Stranger
Male
Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 110
Loc: mexico
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: help on mesc extraction from peyote with pure lab chems [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #11987514 - 02/08/10 02:17 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

QUOTE
there is something wrong with ripping 500 grams from the ground for an extraction.

who said i ripped it up...i cut it carefully so that it would grow back...unlike the indians


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: help on mesc extraction from peyote with pure lab chems [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #11988950 - 02/08/10 05:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:



Just remember that this is an unbroken tradition. The chemist is a shaman.

Alchemy, the root of our modern chemistry, originates from the same indigenous plant shamanism that the native american church practices today.




:facepalm:

no that's absolutely incorrect. a chemist is not a shaman, a shaman is a healer from Tunguska(siberia). why do you all think peyote has anything to do with shamanism in the NAC?

you're going to sit here and talk to me about something you arent apart of or have no idea what the fuck it is? wow. thats all i have to say.





right!!! the native Americans out west are offended by being called shamans. thats like me going up to you an American and saying hey you must be a real nigga G. cause your from the USA and of course all ppl in the US listen to hip hop cause they are American. or better going to a foot doctor for a neurological imbalance


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibleawesomebastard
Lost
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 4,891
Re: help on mesc extraction from peyote with pure lab chems [Re: q-bert]
    #12077921 - 02/22/10 05:06 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

LOL.

He's a professor and he used benzine.:lol:


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* 100g 10x extract = lifetime supply?
( 1 2 all )
Lun4e 3,151 21 09/04/05 10:33 PM
by fatalerror
* PEYOTE -HELP
( 1 2 all )
pharmacist 4,869 26 10/18/03 01:43 PM
by Voodoo
* Alternative Mesc Tar extraction? *DELETED* dblaney 1,451 6 02/04/05 12:01 AM
by kadakuda
* Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction Murphthesurf 729 18 05/07/21 10:45 PM
by Blazer420
* SYRIAN RUE: Extraction success, crystals w/ pics poke smot! 19,749 8 09/12/12 03:46 PM
by FakePlasticSky
* Mesc. pinkfloydms 611 2 02/07/05 03:26 PM
by stefan
* Re: Mescaline or Peyote? Every1ShouldBAble2Post 5,006 13 01/28/00 12:18 PM
by Anonymous
* Psilocybin Extraction Project
( 1 2 3 4 all )
ryan 45,325 68 09/01/11 09:51 PM
by Shroomanism

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Asante, Rose, mushboy, karode13, LogicaL Chaos, bodhisatta
6,659 topic views. 3 members, 31 guests and 31 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.