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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Registered: 11/26/02
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Why cold shock? Useless???
    #1195594 - 01/06/03 06:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Wouldnt puting the cake or casing in the OPTIMUM fruiting temp be just as good as cold shocking. its not like u have to trick the thing with the cold shock. its still gunna know when its at its best temp. wouldnt this just be a useless step? i cant find any actual data that cold shock helps. maybe someone can let me in on this info..


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Edited by SubGen1us (01/06/03 07:34 PM)


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OfflineMister Black
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Registered: 11/18/02
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #1195677 - 01/06/03 07:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I don't have any actual 'data' to support this, but I thought that the cold shock was an artificial simulation of the first frost of fall, after which mushies start their outdoor fruiting. Kind of a natural trigger to initiate pinning.


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: Mister Black]
    #1195686 - 01/06/03 07:15 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

wouldnt frost be freezing temp?? just a contradictory thought.
i dont know when they actually grow in the wild maybe thats where the info is.
im gunna check it out any mroe info would be apreteated.


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Edited by SubGen1us (01/06/03 07:16 PM)


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: Mister Black]
    #1195699 - 01/06/03 07:22 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

also isnt light wat initiats pinning. i also hear putting it at the right temp is another thing. but how does cold shock do anything?


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OfflineHamurabi
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Registered: 03/31/02
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #1195920 - 01/06/03 08:52 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

cold shocking makes your cakes/casings pin faster


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InvisibleG a n j a
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #1195940 - 01/06/03 09:01 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Cold shocking makes a bit of sense as althought you dont let it reach freezing,you trick the mycelium into thinking winter is coming by dropping the temps a bit.So
pushing it into fruiting before winter sets in.I would think the light does a simalar thing i.e when the mycelium reaches the surface in nature it could be a sign of
running out of substance to eat(hense reaching air)so will also bring on fruiting.

Most flowering/fruiting plants also have triggers to start fruiting in nature.
But for indoor cultivation you just need to use these triggers to control when you wont fruiting to happen.

My 2p


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OfflineSHR00M0L0GIST
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: Hamurabi]
    #1195943 - 01/06/03 09:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

cold shocking is not a necessary process and in my experience makes no difference. Though others have reported that it works good if your cakes don't pin by themselves.


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Registered: 08/06/02
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Re: Why cold shock? Useless??? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #1195991 - 01/06/03 09:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I usually cold shock when I dunk. I'd like to think that it helps keep my contaminations down. Anyway I'm not going to do anything else to my cake while it's dunking, and it's certainly not hurting it, why not cold shock?


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: SHR00M0L0GIST]
    #1196163 - 01/06/03 10:39 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I tend to think the same way shroomologist says,

to: d2aussulite ganja- u are right there, but like u said drop the temp a little so it knows. putting it in the fridge is just slowing it to an unatural state, of course it doesnt hurt it but its kind of extreme and adding an extra, non needed step.
Just the drop in temp (86 to 74) from an incubator to a fruiting chamber is plenty with addition to light and "air replacement". i believe that all u people cold shocking are doing it for no reason other that someone wrote a tek on it. Does it really help if not pinning naturally or is it impatient step made for those who cant wait and make them feel relieved that in theyre mind it helped? or even done with those who dont have an incubator and colonize theyre jars at 80 or so degrees.

If u can prove any additional information that it helps i would be happy for ur links and info. Thanx





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Edited by SubGen1us (01/06/03 10:43 PM)


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #1196178 - 01/06/03 10:43 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

oh yeah and to ganja, in reply to ur nature trigger stuff.
Yah i know about that but from all the experience of people that have proven with graphs what the best pinning temp is. We know what temp it happens so wouldnt u think now that it is an out dated tek?


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InvisibleG a n j a
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #1196205 - 01/06/03 11:01 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Your probably right there,also another point is that
as most of the cubesis we all grow come from
mexico or tailand/asia then the temp should rarely
if ever reach that of the inside of a fridge lol.So
maybe its only realy worth while for cakes or casings
that dont seem to pin after say 3 weeks or for azures ext.

I have cold shocked one out of 4 cakes im now growing
but cant really compare to the others as i birthed it earlyer.
The noncold shocked seem to be doing fine though.


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InvisibleG a n j a
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #1196390 - 01/07/03 12:58 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I was just walking the dog thinking about this and i think
you hit the nail on the head when you said you inncubate
at 86?f and fruit at 74?f.ive been incubating at 80?f and fruiting at 75?f
and would imagine that most people are in between some were.
So 86 to 74 is a 12 degree sudden change which could its self
be called a shock(though not a cold one but in the same direction)
were as mine only get a 5 degree change.
Next time ill try your temps :smile: though i may inncubate at 82?f/83?f
as i had good results with 80?f.
i have already dropped the recently started fruiting chamber to 74?f
Cheers :smile:


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Edited by G a n j a (01/07/03 12:59 AM)


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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: SHR00M0L0GIST]
    #1196966 - 01/07/03 08:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


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OfflineHamurabi
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Registered: 03/31/02
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: SHR00M0L0GIST]
    #1197445 - 01/07/03 11:32 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i have to disagree with shroomologist! i made a test a few weeks ago! i birthed 3 cakes and cold shocked other 3. a few days later the cold shocked cakes were pinning while the others pinned 4-5 days later


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OfflineSHR00M0L0GIST
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: Hamurabi]
    #1197650 - 01/07/03 12:52 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hamurabi, I guess you disagree with Ralphster as well. I think he knows what hes talking about. I'm not saying that cold shocking doesn't help in some situations. I'm just saying that its not a natural part of the growth cycle and isn't necessary to initiate pinning any faster. Light alone should trigger pinning if you use grow bulbs that are high in blue light compared to regular bulbs or flourescent.


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: ralphster44]
    #1197683 - 01/07/03 12:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Im glad u guys are around to help. when i first started i seriosuly thought that it would be a good tek, cause im a newb. But now that im starting to get more into it i kind of thought it would be an outdated tek. glad u guys are here to help me get good in depth answers. The reason i came up with it being over kill is because when i breed my fish i have to do the same thing with mushrooms almost.. The fish i have breed at the rainy season. so basically they are used the the warmer african temps. but guess what. It rains. basically the rain is cooler temp witch lowers the temp in the rivers and such. basically i remove water in my tank 40% and add fresh cooler water to trigger it. Im not popping em in the fridge for a day =P


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Anonymous

Re: Why cold shock? Useless??? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #1197809 - 01/07/03 01:35 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Whatever stimuli you can introduce to the mycelium that slows the growth rate will initiate fruiting.

Lowered temps
Oxygen introduction
Light introduction

Cold shocking cakes prior to birth seems easily done. Cold shocking a Casing post casing colinization will be a bit more difficult. Will increase your chances of contamination, and take alot of space.

If you can easily cold shock, go for it. If it seems like an inconvinience don't, it is NOT NECCESSARY.

As long as the temps don't damge the mycelial colony, then it CAN"T hurt. Nutrient deprivation is the ultimate stimuli to fruiting. Low temps guarentee that the growth rate SLOWS, and it is the STORED nutrients within the Mycelium, and those already in solution that feed the developing pins. The mycelium stops feeding to fruit. Then it feeds again before fruiting again. It continues to do this until it succombs to contamination, or it USES up all available nutrients from the substrate, or some KILL factor is introduced(freeze, Burn, Poison, etc...)

You can grow a cubensis at a constant temp from spore to spore. It will just take longer to do so.


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Anonymous

Re: Why cold shock? [Re: Hamurabi]
    #1197825 - 01/07/03 01:40 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

One question I have about Cold shocking.

I realize it speeds up the time to pin set. Does it also slow down the time it takes between flushes?


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: ]
    #1197860 - 01/07/03 01:52 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i still dont see how it speeds it up. u stoping it for 24-48 hours from the Nutrient deprivation u said erlier. if u drop ur temp to 74 fro 86 the myclium knows from that and continues the whole time. instead of stoping it for a day to 2. so ur tek is 2 days slower.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Why cold shock? [Re: ]
    #1197886 - 01/07/03 02:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

it doesn't really 'speed' it up, in my experience. it can sometimes though be useful in prodding a stubborn cake that refuses to pin by normal means into going ahead, esp. if combined with a dunk. that's really the best way to dunk anyway, in the fridge, so you get a free cold shock along the way, a few hours at 40 degrees won't hurt them, might help, so why not when you dunk ? other than with dunking though i'd skip a cold shock.


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