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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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What's the deal with the ratings?
    #11913529 - 01/27/10 06:10 PM (14 years, 29 days ago)

So I have 60 ratings averaging at 4.6, but the system rounds me down to 4.0? :mad2: Is there a rating number threshold where 4.6 gets averaged to 5.0, like in normal math?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11914631 - 01/27/10 08:49 PM (14 years, 28 days ago)

The rating system is ranked; a 5 from a person who gives out very little 5's is ranked more than a person who gives a 5 to everyone he can.


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: deCypher]
    #11914705 - 01/27/10 08:58 PM (14 years, 28 days ago)

So if a person is a dick and gives out a lot of 0's, their 5's will be worth more? :confused:

I don't bother giving out any 0's because I don't see a need for it, but give out 5's when they are due. So why should my 5's be worth less? Seems a little flawed to me.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11914717 - 01/27/10 08:59 PM (14 years, 28 days ago)

I personally think that ratings should remain unweighted.  :shrug:


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OnlineYthanA
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11915854 - 01/28/10 12:35 AM (14 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I don't bother giving out any 0's because I don't see a need for it, but give out 5's when they are due. So why should my 5's be worth less? Seems a little flawed to me.




That's not exactly how it works... the normalization accounts for mean and standard deviation, so your 5's are not heavily adjusted since most people on the BB give out a lot of 5's. The main effect of the normalization on you personally is to make your bad ratings worth less (ie. more effective), because you leave fewer than average.

Quote:

Ratings left by c0sm0nautt would be worth these values after normalization:
Rating of 0 = -2.1642
Rating of 1 = -0.7738
Rating of 2 = 0.6166
Rating of 3 = 2.007
Rating of 4 = 3.3973
Rating of 5 = 4.7877




Similarly, if a member gives out a lot of bad ratings the value of their good ratings may be worth more, but the main effect will be to increase the value of the bad ratings they've left. Eg:

Quote:

Ratings left by sucklesworth would be worth these values after normalization:
Rating of 0 = 1.7788
Rating of 1 = 2.5129
Rating of 2 = 3.247
Rating of 3 = 3.9811
Rating of 4 = 4.7152
Rating of 5 = 5.4493




The main thing to remember is that the ratings left by an individual are normalized based on what's typical of the BB, so you can't predict how it will affect someone based on their rating history alone. You can play around with http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ratingtest.php if you like. Normalization is frequently used in this type of situation to account for disparities in subjective judges, and I think overall it has made ratings a more fair and accurate way to gauge a user's reputation at a glance.


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: Ythan]
    #11916406 - 01/28/10 07:10 AM (14 years, 28 days ago)

I see, that's actually a pretty good system. I was picturing something a lot more crude.

Now that I know I have the power of the -2, some unlucky person will fall victim to my wrath. :evil:


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Offlinewaixingren
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11929761 - 01/30/10 01:40 PM (14 years, 26 days ago)

lol


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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: waixingren]
    #11951356 - 02/02/10 10:17 PM (14 years, 22 days ago)

I still don't see how this works, and I'm an engineer. :lol:

For example, here's two users from cultivation, both of which only have received +5 ratings, yet one of them has a 4 rating and the other has a 5.  They're not bitching, but I just wondered what's up with it.

I noticed the guy with a 4 only had one rating, so I gave him a 5 too, but it still left his overall rating at 4, even though he has two +5s. :shrug:

Is a 20% drop normal equalization?
RR


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OnlineYthanA
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11951658 - 02/02/10 11:07 PM (14 years, 22 days ago)

Heh... when a user leaves a rating, the equation to calculate its normalized value is:

adjusted_rating_value = all_ratings_average + (all_ratings_standard_deviation * (rating_value - user_ratings_average) / user_ratings_standard_deviation)

It's based on the principles explained here.

Then a person's grand score is the average of these normalized ratings, rounded to the nearest whole number.

The two users you're asking about actually work great as an example since they only have a few ratings.

Cension, with a score of five, received a single five-shroom rating from PrimalSoup. PrimalSoup has only left a few ratings so they're not being normalized yet. His five is worth a five (for now).

wygram, with a score of four, received two five-shroom ratings, one from you and one from vinsue.

Quote:

Ratings left by RogerRabbit would be worth these values after normalization:
Rating of 0 = -6.32
Rating of 1 = -4.1528
Rating of 2 = -1.9855
Rating of 3 = 0.1818
Rating of 4 = 2.3491
Rating of 5 = 4.5163




Quote:

Ratings left by vinsue would be worth these values after normalization:
Rating of 0 = -8.6308
Rating of 1 = -6.0087
Rating of 2 = -3.3865
Rating of 3 = -0.7643
Rating of 4 = 1.8578
Rating of 5 = 4.48




So his rating is (4.5163 + 4.48) / 2 = 4.49815, which is rounded to four. Obviously he's right on the edge and it's likely his next five-shroom rating will push him over the top. I hope this makes sense although I can see how this case was particularly confusing.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: Ythan]
    #11951675 - 02/02/10 11:09 PM (14 years, 22 days ago)

Why are ratings normalized in the first place?


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OnlineYthanA
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: deCypher]
    #11951732 - 02/02/10 11:22 PM (14 years, 22 days ago)

There are two reasons: it was primarily conceived to lessen the impact of rating rapes, but it also makes ratings more accurate and consistent between members which I consider desirable in and of itself. Consider a hypothetical case where we have some members who only give out zero-shroom ratings time after time, and others who only give out five-shroom ratings. Is it really more "fair" or "accurate" to give these ratings full weight, or for them to trend towards the average value of a rating on the BB? I guess reasonable people could disagree but I'd argue the latter. Given this and its anti-abuse properties it seemed like a clear win. Although I acknowledge it's more complicated and confusing than the previous system.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: Ythan]
    #11951751 - 02/02/10 11:24 PM (14 years, 22 days ago)

I mean, it's definitely counter-intuitive.  Ratings rapes do exist but does their presence mean that we have to make one's rating score needlessly obscure?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: deCypher]
    #11951762 - 02/02/10 11:25 PM (14 years, 22 days ago)

The mode might be a good addition to the mean in this case.


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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: deCypher]
    #11951853 - 02/02/10 11:47 PM (14 years, 22 days ago)

Not needlessly obscure, just obscure. :wink: And I would answer yes. A man can only take so much bitching.

I never took a statistics class so I went with calculating a standard score since it seems to be the approach used in similar situations. But I'm open to suggestions, if you can explain why your method is better than the one used by statisticians (or why the one I'm using is wrong in this context).


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: Ythan]
    #11951861 - 02/02/10 11:49 PM (14 years, 22 days ago)

Well it seems like an OTD crew (or whoever decides to ratings rape) could never outweigh the majority of other Shroomery users when it comes to determining the mode of the ratings received for a particular user.  Thus this would possibly be more accurate than using a mean, even if weighted.


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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: deCypher]
    #11951958 - 02/03/10 12:11 AM (14 years, 22 days ago)

Well right now the current score of a user receiving a rating is not taken into account during normalization. When I said 'user_ratings_average' and 'user_ratings_standard_deviation' above, I meant for the person who's leaving the rating. I'm not exactly sure how you'd incorporate the recipient's mode into the normalized value or even if it's desirable. It seems like rather than minimizing the effects of abnormal ratings it would serve to amplify them, at least in the short-term. And I'm not sure how it would affect the resulting 'accuracy' of the normalized scores. But remember you've got to explain this to to me like a guy who last studied math as a high-school sophomore over 10 years ago. I'll defer to the expertise of others if you can sell me on your idea. Providing an actual equation I can plug in to the script might help. :wink:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: Ythan]
    #11951968 - 02/03/10 12:14 AM (14 years, 22 days ago)

The mode = the most frequent rating given to a particular user.  Since the rest of the site outweighs any potential ratings rapage I would anticipate that the mode would most accurately reflect a particular's user's 'general' rating.


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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: deCypher]
    #11952089 - 02/03/10 12:42 AM (14 years, 22 days ago)

Heh... no, I know what a mode is but I don't see how you'd use it to come up with a more accurate normalized rating. You have to be specific about what technique you would use. You can't just tell me "use the mode", I don't know of a method for normalization which incorporates the mode and I don't know how to come up with one which has any statistical basis behind it.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: Ythan]
    #11952103 - 02/03/10 12:44 AM (14 years, 22 days ago)

I guess I'm unsure why normalization is required in the first place... if the non-normalized mode of a user's ratings creates an accurate reflection of the content of his posts then why not legitimize it?

Sorry, I'm very high at the moment.  :grin:


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Offlinewaixingren
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Re: What's the deal with the ratings? [Re: deCypher]
    #11952127 - 02/03/10 12:49 AM (14 years, 22 days ago)

i like the way deCypher's idea is going.  i'm trying to understand how it could be implemented though.

if the rating being given to the receiver is equal to the mode rating of the receiver then it is just averaged in. if the rating being given does not equal the mode of the receiver then it is normalized based on the current system. the resulting normalized mean and the un-normalized mode are then averaged out.

does that make sense?:crazy::confused:


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