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OfflineSventington
am what I am what I am what I am

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 532
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: Diploid]
    #11957856 - 02/03/10 09:17 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Sounds like you've got nothing but one recorded instance.

I dunno about OC, but this scenario of a mystic-head refusing to answer questions when they realize the question will paint them into a logical corner is such a common occurrence here that I'm surprised you guys need examples.

I just did a quick search for posts where I say "please answer my question" and got back hundreds of hits. In almost every case I ask over and over for an answer to a simple question and get zilch back.

Here are a few at random. :shrug:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4233353#4233353

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5457769#5457769

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5510457#5510457

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7849022#7849022

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3965682#3965682




I just went with the first link, but it looks like Silversoul did answer you in that thread, he just thought there was no absolute answer and as such couldn't give you a yes or a no.

Is that what "mystic-heads" do?

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OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,457
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 days, 7 hours
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11957859 - 02/03/10 09:18 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

They work in much the same way tinted windows work to hide an ugly driver.

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InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11957862 - 02/03/10 09:19 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
Quote:

As Swami, I issued over 40 $10,000 Challenges based upon the exact wording of claimants of weird stuff on this forum.

I can spin stuff with my mind.

I can knock you over without touching you.

I can visit your house astrally.

:blah:

Not one took the next step except for Shroomism who reneged




are you serious ?
i've never seen this offer before..

if i can visit you astrally.. you'll give me 10.000 dollars ?

how would we go about doing this ?
i mean..
if i fuck around with this i want to be sure that i get my money.

and..
i would need you to give me some information.
i would want to know what you look like for example..

you willing to do that ?

do you really want to lose your money like that ?

think about it..

its a lot of money..




We never had success with cross-dream communication mang...


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
CS actual
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: xFrockx]
    #11957869 - 02/03/10 09:20 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
They work in much the same way tinted windows work to hide an ugly driver.



And reflect intense direct sunlight.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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OfflinejivJaN
yes
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: Icelander]
    #11957887 - 02/03/10 09:24 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:nono:

thats not how it works.

its not a bet.
i work.
you pay.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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OfflinejivJaN
yes
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: deCypher]
    #11957892 - 02/03/10 09:25 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

you never offered me that kind of money  :bigjoint:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11957899 - 02/03/10 09:26 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Incentives, aye?  :lol:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11957906 - 02/03/10 09:27 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
:nono:

thats not how it works.

its not a bet.
i work.
you pay.





If you're so sure you can do it you can't lose. No risk for you. You don't get to dictate terms to me schoolboy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: Sventington]
    #11957911 - 02/03/10 09:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I just went with the first link, but it looks like Silversoul did answer you in that thread, he just thought there was no absolute answer and as such couldn't give you a yes or a no.

Read my thread on answering "maybe" to a yes/no question. It's here:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6232436#6232436

Here's my OP:

This is mostly a vent, but please chime in and let me know what you think.

In philosophical debate, it is a common technique to pose carefully designed questions to the person arguing an opposing point of view in an effort to whittle away irrelevancies in the crucible of logic, and arrive (or try to arrive) at the Truth.

Clearly, it can be the case that a YES|NO question cannot be answered with a simple Yes or No. But in that case, the correct response is to explain to your debate opponent that the question is insufficiently-narrow for a simple Yes or No response. Replying with a stubborn 'maybe' pretty much leads to the end of the debate because if the answers are always 'maybe', then there can be no progress.

This is a loss for both participants because neither side can learn anything new, which presumably is the reason for the debate. It is for me, at least.

If instead of answering with 'maybe' you explain to your opponent EXACTLY what part of the question is too broad or vague for a simple Yes or No reply and then give him an opportunity to refine the question to your satisfaction, the debate can continue and the logic tree explored.

Here's an example:

Philosopher #1: Yes or no, is it ethical to steal?

Philosopher #2: That depends. You'll need to precisely define the word 'theft', and specify what is being stolen and the conditions under which the theft occurs. For example, if you mean stealing a stereo from a department store, then No it's not ethical, but if you mean stealing food because you're starving, Yes it is.

Philosopher #1: OK, the refined question is "Yes or no, defining 'theft' as the taking of something without permission, is it ethical to steal money from a friend's wallet when he left it unattended momentarily and you know he is rich and will not miss it?"

You see that, with the help of his opponent, the questioner has refined the question to a point where it CAN be answered with a simple, unqualified Yes or No. If it's still not narrow enough, the process repeats until the pair arrive at a satisfactory question.

This is philosophy.

I'm often frustrated by the members of this forum who refuse to follow the rules of logic in debate; rules that form the core of philosophy. They seem more interested in being the winner than in approaching the Truth. Rather than help their opponent form satisfactory questions so they can together approach some understanding of the Truth, they debate in an adversarial, ego-driven fashion, and no knowledge is gained by either side.

Philosophical debate shouldn't be about winning, it should be about learning... for both sides.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSventington
am what I am what I am what I am

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 532
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: Diploid]
    #11957941 - 02/03/10 09:33 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Will do, thanks!

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OfflinejivJaN
yes
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: Icelander]
    #11957946 - 02/03/10 09:33 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You don't get to dictate terms to me schoolboy.




:lol:

yes i do.

you want me to do it.
you gotta pay.

i dont pay.

dont even have the money anyway..


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11958065 - 02/03/10 09:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I don't want you to do anything. You're the one who said something about it. If you want to make a bet for bucks then I'll consider it. If not flake off. I'm not OC.

And why not get the full million from the Randi challenge. Or won't that much money work for you?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinejivJaN
yes
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: Icelander]
    #11958203 - 02/03/10 10:12 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

you're too intense for me man.

you instigated it all by saying i need meds and now you're making it look like i want something from you..

i think ill flake off tyvm


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: Icelander]
    #11958209 - 02/03/10 10:13 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Mystic-heads? You make it sound like we are freebasing some crazy new drug. :crazy2:

I'm still confused what this debate is about? Please ask me a question and I will answer it! :etjesus:

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InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11958224 - 02/03/10 10:14 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Mmm mmmmmm, nothing like freebasing a hit of Holy Spirit.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male

Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 676
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 14 years, 22 days
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11958250 - 02/03/10 10:17 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trying to pin down a believer is impossible because they believe because they believe and for no other reason.




So based on that quote, it seems you have completely ignored and/or chosen to disbelieve any personal experiences that these so called "believers" have had.

Why would you make the assumption that every believer believes just for the sake of believing?  Why are you stereotyping every "believer" as such, when personal experiences obviously play a HUGE part in the process of establishing beliefs?

Here's a simple question for you.  Why do you care what others believe in so much?


--------------------
"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

Edited by postanaldrip (02/03/10 10:24 PM)

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
Monkey Mouth
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 2,632
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11958251 - 02/03/10 10:17 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Why did you not respond to my efforts to discuss alternative explanations for the phenomena listed in Wilcox's "Disclosure Endgame"?  In this thread?

You stop discussing it with me.  Why?


--------------------
Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

Edited by youbreakyoubuy (02/03/10 10:25 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: jivJaN]
    #11958292 - 02/03/10 10:22 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

you're too intense for me man.

Good, my job is half done then.

you instigated it all by saying i need meds

I didn't instigate anything dude. I said meds because your post style was all hyper. I never said anything about astral travel or a bet. So I think I'm right about those meds.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
Monkey Mouth
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 2,632
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: Icelander]
    #11958294 - 02/03/10 10:22 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

But it still seems wrong in some sense to deliberately stir up trouble.  For me anyway.  When it comes down to it, OC is his own boss, and I shouldn't apply my moral rubric to his behavior.  Lately I've been learning a lot about what morality is and isn't.


Look man, who cares why OC does what he does. He provides a valuable service imo. He educates. He points out possible weakness in peoples pov. So unless you like people the way they are education is important. And education isn't sitting in a chair trying to get the info needed to past the test so you can forget about it asap. Education is a painful process which brings one into conflict with cherished beliefs.

So I'd say if you are concerned about ethics and motives then worry about your own cause it's really hard sometimes to know everything about someone else's. It's usually a mix of things and not just one.

Yes, you are correct, many are not self aware enough to know what is going on in their emotional landscape. They just react according to pattern almost all the time. But really, there's nothing to be done about it but hit em with a hammer and see if anyone's home. And OC does that.





I get what your saying.  It's just that I tend to try to reconcile his, or anyone else's, behavior with my moral code, which just isn't the correct thing to do.  But it's how my operating system works, and I can't do much about it except reflect about the situation and to try to condition myself to think differently.  In the process I get lectured by the likes of you.  :peace:  Just as you say, education is painful.


--------------------
Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do believers generally avoid answering simple questions? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11958310 - 02/03/10 10:23 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Mystic-heads? You make it sound like we are freebasing some crazy new drug. :crazy2:

I'm still confused what this debate is about? Please ask me a question and I will answer it! :etjesus:





First tell me why you are posting this to me? Did I mention mystic heads in this thread? Refresh my memory please. Am I the only one around here who doesn't need meds?

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