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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: Shins]
#11917278 - 01/28/10 11:49 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: I agree with you for the most part. I'm all for market determination, but i have a few points.
1. government is involved in setting reserve ratios and other regulations, so banks get the benefit of government regulation in that and other regards.
2. Desperate people or naturally gullible or rash people are out there.
Both parties agreed to the contract yes, but there has to be consideration put down on a loan. Joe schmuck pledges his own hard earned money in full while banks pledge a brand new book keeping entry on a fraction of someone else's money borrowed from.
He pledges his own hard earned money? Apparently that isn't so since he hadn't earned any money yet. But he got money. The banks' depositors' hardearned money, which the banks pay interest on. The banks pay lower interest because they are reliable payers and have agreed to safeguard the depositors funds. The credit card shmucks pay higher interest because they are schmucks who are far more likely to beat the depositor out of his hard-earned money. When they beat the banks they cause the banks to pay thehir depositors lower interest. The schmucks, bums, thieves, losers, punks, scum who do not pay back the money extended to them are robbing the bank depositors, not the banks.Quote:
Banks Get the benefit of loose government banking regulations on their end of consideration, while joe schmuck had to work hard for it. Personally i would not call that fair consideration.
If Joe Schmuck had worked hard for his money he wouldn't have needed to borrow any, would he?Quote:
Legal? it's probably lawful
Moral? I don't think it is.
It is immoral to not repay a loan. Any loan. It is called stealing.
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Groovy Grant

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 6,635
Loc: TX
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: zappaisgod]
#11918751 - 01/28/10 03:42 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm all for repaying debts. However, I don't agree with it being immoral to not repay a debt. I think debt is an obligation, but the reason an interest rate is there, is to safeguard against inflation and to cover any assumed "risk" the lender is taking on.
When a business, like lets say GM for example, borrows money in the form of secured bonds and preferred shares and unsecured stocks, and it decides it is going to not pay back the money, bankruptcy filing, is this immoral of the corporation? They made an informed decision, that in order for GM to continue, they would need to renege on their obligations. That's why the bond rates for GM were like 15% or something astronomical. The bondholders ended up getting bilked, but that's presumably the risk they took on, otherwise they would have considered another company or individual to lend too.
I think if more people did this with their mortgages (which are secured with the property) and credit cards (unsecured), it would have an effect on credit, but it would also force banks to work with their creditees much more rapidly. I read an article about this in the New York Times this week (can't find the link) and it's business savvy when a company or corporation bilks their bondholders or shareholders, or reorganizes their debt to protect them, but if an individual does it, it's called immoral and irresponsible. Seems like bullshit too me.
The banks who loaned the loanee money for their overpriced house, also were the ones who took excessive risk and indirectly caused the fall of the value of your home. Or had such loose credit restrictions, that they did not preform due process on the loanee's finances. Really all it leads too, is another externality pushed on to everyone else, who were just minding their business.
I believe states like California, restrict the way a home mortgage is written, that the only asset the creditor can go after is the physical house itself, that the mortgage is on. So let's say you bought a house in CA for $500,000 and now you want to sell, and all you can get is $300,000. Obviously, it's underwater, however to get out of the loan, you just hand the keys right back to mortgagor, and your sins are washed clean. The mortgagor has the house in it's custody, that's all the mortgage covered, so you've atoned for the sin. The $200,000 loss is absorbed by the mortgagee's payments and down-payment they put forward, if the mortgagor is losing on the deal, they obviously we're charging the correct interest rate or they were flying too loose with how they gave credit.
It's a pity, corporations can get protections like a real human, yet have no responsibilities to anyone like real human beings. Until issues like this are fixed, their will always be a major discrepancy on how bankruptcy is actually viewed, as a financial decision, not a moral decision.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: Groovy Grant]
#11919547 - 01/28/10 05:32 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Groovy Grant said: I'm all for repaying debts. However, I don't agree with it being immoral to not repay a debt. I think debt is an obligation, but the reason an interest rate is there, is to safeguard against inflation and to cover any assumed "risk" the lender is taking on.
How about it's just a convenience fee to start and then any risk factor raises the fee?Quote:
When a business, like lets say GM for example, borrows money in the form of secured bonds and preferred shares and unsecured stocks, and it decides it is going to not pay back the money, bankruptcy filing, is this immoral of the corporation? They made an informed decision, that in order for GM to continue, they would need to renege on their obligations. That's why the bond rates for GM were like 15% or something astronomical. The bondholders ended up getting bilked, but that's presumably the risk they took on, otherwise they would have considered another company or individual to lend too.
Yep, It is a moral failure to not repay even high interest loans.Quote:
I think if more people did this with their mortgages (which are secured with the property) and credit cards (unsecured), it would have an effect on credit, but it would also force banks to work with their creditees much more rapidly. I read an article about this in the New York Times this week (can't find the link) and it's business savvy when a company or corporation bilks their bondholders or shareholders, or reorganizes their debt to protect them, but if an individual does it, it's called immoral and irresponsible. Seems like bullshit too me.
I saw the same article. I disagree with them. I am going to make an absolute stand. It is immoral to not pay back a loan no matter who takes it out. I am not aparticularly enamored of bankruptcy. I think it is too easy and a lot of scumbags use it to their advantage.Quote:
The banks who loaned the loanee money for their overpriced house, also were the ones who took excessive risk and indirectly caused the fall of the value of your home. Or had such loose credit restrictions, that they did not preform due process on the loanee's finances. Really all it leads too, is another externality pushed on to everyone else, who were just minding their business.
Well the bank didn't cause the fall of the home's value. And believe me I am not crying a river of tears for their failure to protect themselves. But what I do cry about is that they they were coerced by the government in the first place to make loans to bums. The politicians can't have it both ways at the banks' expense. Quote:
I believe states like California, restrict the way a home mortgage is written, that the only asset the creditor can go after is the physical house itself, that the mortgage is on. So let's say you bought a house in CA for $500,000 and now you want to sell, and all you can get is $300,000. Obviously, it's underwater, however to get out of the loan, you just hand the keys right back to mortgagor, and your sins are washed clean. The mortgagor has the house in it's custody, that's all the mortgage covered, so you've atoned for the sin. The $200,000 loss is absorbed by the mortgagee's payments and down-payment they put forward, if the mortgagor is losing on the deal, they obviously we're charging the correct interest rate or they were flying too loose with how they gave credit.
I think most states restrict it just to the value of the particularly collaterized property. And no, you have not atoned for your sin, you have merely met your legal obligation strictly as it applies to that debt. What you are also in for is that you will never be trusted again because you have proven yourself to b e a bum and a shit. Good luck getting another loan, never, or even be allowed to rent without a huge down payment. There's the thing. Fuck me once and I will never lend to you again unless you collateralize me at a 2 for 1 ratio. Given the state of tenants' rights laws and how hard it is to evict someone, even someone who hasn't paid for 6 months, and you would have to be a fool to rent to a proven deadbeat. Are you starting to understand why you might not want to walk away?Quote:
It's a pity, corporations can get protections like a real human, yet have no responsibilities to anyone like real human beings. Until issues like this are fixed, their will always be a major discrepancy on how bankruptcy is actually viewed, as a financial decision, not a moral decision.
Any person can incorporate and get exacty the same protections. Do you know what lenders will do when they see that? Nothing. Enjoy your credit free life.
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xtokex
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 662
Loc: SoCal
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: zappaisgod]
#11926892 - 01/29/10 10:13 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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ok I have a question. I dont know what "default on a payment" means See i have this credit card with 0% APR, as long as I dont default (if i default its like 23%). So does this mean I could pay the $15 minimum payment/month and still have 0% APR? or does default mean when you dont pay off your entire balance each month?
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Pyschonaut23TN
Questioner



Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 97
Loc: JC, TN
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: xtokex]
#11929545 - 01/30/10 01:00 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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As long as you keep up with the minimum payments, you should be fine with your APR but at least make an effort to pay on some of your balance. It keeps you from falling too far behind with it and exceeding your credit line.
-------------------- <Shins McGee> The God machine is hungry for individualism and ripe brains. The skull farmers do their rain dance and pray the machine falls to sleep. She holds me close and whispers wet "there are cannibals among us." Mad in love with dry dead boys in the backs of abandoned cars. Smoking the bones of children plotting the murder of love.
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Groovy Grant

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 6,635
Loc: TX
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: xtokex]
#11930179 - 01/30/10 02:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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that 0% apr is a teaser rate. They tease you to switch or use the card, after the 6 month or however long the introductory period is, all balances will be at whatever the predetermined rate was to begin with.
The default normally means 60 days or more behind in payments, but it will be defined by your card. That's what all the small print is about.
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Trance104
Businessman


Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 258
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: Groovy Grant]
#11940672 - 02/01/10 08:15 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, MAKE SURE that you zero balance that card before your "introductory offer" expires.
-------------------- Can't stop the Trance! Dance!! DANCE!!! A good archive of Trance music to listen to when you want to relax or trip with. www.trance104.com
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JohnnyConverse
Stranger

Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 268
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: Trance104]
#11940969 - 02/01/10 09:41 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Credit cards will settle old accounts out. How long do I need to "hold out" before I can strike a decent deal? I offered a credit card a lump sum settlement, and they offered me a 90% settlement. (for an account that wasn't yet "past due", I just told them I wanted to close it out and could we settle it)
I want to do better than that, like maybe half? How long would I have to evade judgment for that?
-------------------- I wasn't an activist until I got put in jail. I sat there in jail seeing what was really going on in America and something changed. Now when people say, "Tommy what was jail like?" I say "You'll see" -- Tommy Chong
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: JohnnyConverse]
#11941286 - 02/01/10 10:46 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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How about you just pay them the money you owe instead of asking how long do you have to be a deadbeat for before they give up?
Good luck getting credit for the rest of your life.
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Pyschonaut23TN
Questioner



Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 97
Loc: JC, TN
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: zappaisgod]
#11941660 - 02/01/10 12:04 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Zappa is right my friend, just pay off your account to the best of your abilities instead of ruining your credit so they'll strike a deal. The best they would really do is put you on a fixed payment plan where the card is frozen until you pay off owed amounts, which by then your credit score will suck ass and your interest rate will be through the roof. Be punctual with your payments.
-------------------- <Shins McGee> The God machine is hungry for individualism and ripe brains. The skull farmers do their rain dance and pray the machine falls to sleep. She holds me close and whispers wet "there are cannibals among us." Mad in love with dry dead boys in the backs of abandoned cars. Smoking the bones of children plotting the murder of love.
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Brennus
Student of Life



Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 3,297
Loc: SE United States
Last seen: 6 years, 2 days
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: Pyschonaut23TN]
#11942049 - 02/01/10 01:23 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pyschonaut23TN said: I used to collect delinquent credit card payments for Bank Of America. I'd be glad to answer questions about the corporate machine and how it works to the best of my knowledge and abilities. So fire away
What's the general policy for customers trying to negotiate their ways out of late fees and the like? Is a supervisor required to authorize it?
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Pyschonaut23TN
Questioner



Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 97
Loc: JC, TN
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: Brennus]
#11944700 - 02/01/10 08:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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What's the general policy for customers trying to negotiate their ways out of late fees and the like? Is a supervisor required to authorize it?
Usually the only let the late fees go if you have perfect payment history. Any other time you're basically fucked. And yes it has to be authorized by a supervisor and after that you will be transferred to Customer Service department.
-------------------- <Shins McGee> The God machine is hungry for individualism and ripe brains. The skull farmers do their rain dance and pray the machine falls to sleep. She holds me close and whispers wet "there are cannibals among us." Mad in love with dry dead boys in the backs of abandoned cars. Smoking the bones of children plotting the murder of love.
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pothead_bob
Resident Pothead


Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,811
Loc: Your computer screen
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: Pyschonaut23TN]
#11946438 - 02/02/10 06:38 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I had perfect payment history for about 3 years on my Chase card when I missed a payment. Somehow my payment reminder emails got shut off. The bastards still made me pay the $40.
-------------------- No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge which is itself based upon the mathematical sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519) Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Groovy Grant

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 6,635
Loc: TX
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Re: Ex-credit card debt collector answers questions. [Re: pothead_bob]
#11949310 - 02/02/10 05:17 PM (14 years, 30 days ago) |
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I had a late payment years ago, the payment day was never static, it was every 28 days, so this month it may be on the 15, but the next month it may be on the 13 or something. It was in March, when February fucked up the date. Anyways, I paid a day late and nothing bad every happened to me.
I think they are going to fix this now, with the new regulations. You credit card payment will be due every X date of the month regardless of how the calendar slides. So it'll just affect the interested charged for the new period, etc. Some months will be 30 day period, others may me 31 etc, rather then the standard 28 I had before.
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