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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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In the vernacular,
    #11927218 - 01/29/10 11:30 PM (14 years, 20 days ago)

In the vernacular of every day folk what does "ethically" mean?

What does ethically mean to you?

And by whose ethic?

Also "vernacular," what does that mean?

Let us come up with definitions for these words so that we may talk about them.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.


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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11927486 - 01/30/10 01:01 AM (14 years, 20 days ago)

For instance, a post of a friend regarding stem cell research: "...in this age that we live in, we have achieved so much, invented so much, and overcome so much that, I know we can find ways to cure those who suffer from health problems without the unnecessary cost of sacrificing innocent unborn human lives. We can do better!"

Why is it a "cost of ... innocent unborn human lives."?  Are humans ever innocent?  What is innocence?


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11928450 - 01/30/10 09:07 AM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Now that you don't know anything about ethics, apply this wisdom to the rest of your "knowledge":thumbup:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11928647 - 01/30/10 09:52 AM (14 years, 19 days ago)

For me ethics are a personal code of or for behavior.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: xFrockx]
    #11929282 - 01/30/10 12:15 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Now that you don't know anything about ethics, apply this wisdom to the rest of your "knowledge":thumbup:




I dont think that will help me much :lol:

Asking questions that I cant answer leaves me holding on to thin air


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11929571 - 01/30/10 01:03 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

youbreakyoubuy said:
For instance, a post of a friend regarding stem cell research: "...in this age that we live in, we have achieved so much, invented so much, and overcome so much that, I know we can find ways to cure those who suffer from health problems without the unnecessary cost of sacrificing innocent unborn human lives. We can do better!"

Why is it a "cost of ... innocent unborn human lives."?  Are humans ever innocent?  What is innocence?




Innocence is completely irrelevant to that argument.

The whole debate about taking cells from a fetus is when is a fetus considered a human? They have already stated in their argument that a fetus is already human without proving it.

If abortion really was murder, it would be illegal. That's what that debate is about, or at least that is a vital question that must be answered.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11929606 - 01/30/10 01:10 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

How do you hold on to thin air?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11929635 - 01/30/10 01:16 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

I once got kicked in the vernacular. :whoa:


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Offlinemescalinician
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11931725 - 01/30/10 07:12 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

I define ethics as a set of principles for action/inaction. These can apply to the individual, cultures at large, or to everyone universally. Just depends on what you think determines the truthfulness of evaluative (right/wrong, good/bad) statements.

And vernacular just means common language.


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:awecid:


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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: xFrockx]
    #11933262 - 01/30/10 11:45 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

I disagree that vernacular is common language.  It is a lifestyle. 
Quote:

xFrockx said:
How do you hold on to thin air?




And I would reply, "How does a small furry mammal hold on to thin air?" 


Edited by youbreakyoubuy (01/31/10 12:15 AM)


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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: mescalinician]
    #11933293 - 01/30/10 11:53 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

mescalinician said:
I define ethics as a set of principles for action/inaction. These can apply to the individual, cultures at large, or to everyone universally. Just depends on what you think determines the truthfulness of evaluative (right/wrong, good/bad) statements.

And vernacular just means common language.




Everything else I would say is true.  How do we perceive the truthfulness of an ethical decision?


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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: Icelander]
    #11933300 - 01/30/10 11:55 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
For me ethics are a personal code of or for behavior.




Could you please describe an everyday ethical decision you have to make?  Or am I twisting your thought?


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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: learningtofly]
    #11933335 - 01/31/10 12:06 AM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:

Innocence is completely irrelevant to that argument.

The whole debate about taking cells from a fetus is when is a fetus considered a human? They have already stated in their argument that a fetus is already human without proving it.

If abortion really was murder, it would be illegal. That's what that debate is about, or at least that is a vital question that must be answered.




Do you know that infants can be ethnically identified by their wails?  I read of a study in which German infants could be distinguished from French infants by the way they screamed for a nipple.  Somehow they were able to analyze the inflections, pitches, rhythms, and overall melodies of language while in the womb.

They are human from the very beginning.  One of your father's sperm has supplied half of your blueprint.  That single cell from which you were spawned contained half of it's chromosomes from dear old dad.  The other came from mom.  Most of the cytoplasm was supplied by mom though; mom always packs a big lunch.  :lol:

A sperm is a predevelopmental version of each and every one of us; an egg is a predevelopmental version of each and every one of us.

The word human is largely out of date.  Historical classifications of organisms are becoming outmoded.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11934283 - 01/31/10 07:23 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

youbreakyoubuy said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
For me ethics are a personal code of or for behavior.




Could you please describe an everyday ethical decision you have to make?  Or am I twisting your thought?





Well I recently made a bet with V for $100. I lost the bet but could have lied about it (I did for a few days in effect) but my ethics about not cheating friends won out in the end and I paid up.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinemescalinician
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #11934458 - 01/31/10 08:43 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

youbreakyoubuy said:
Quote:

mescalinician said:
I define ethics as a set of principles for action/inaction. These can apply to the individual, cultures at large, or to everyone universally. Just depends on what you think determines the truthfulness of evaluative (right/wrong, good/bad) statements.

And vernacular just means common language.




Everything else I would say is true.  How do we perceive the truthfulness of an ethical decision?




Well that's for you to decide man. I can give you my opinion, but I can't answer that question for you, nor can I give you THE answer to that question because frankly, I just do not know what it is. And I'm pretty damn sure no one else does either. As far as I've seen so far no one has a definitive, bullet proof argument for any ethical position.

Personally, I am sympathetic towards ethical realism. I think that morals exist as objective truths. People, on the face of it, seem to share a common conception of morality, i.e. killing is prima facie wrong, rape is wrong, stealing is wrong, lying is prima facie wrong etc.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: mescalinician]
    #11934481 - 01/31/10 08:49 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

People, on the face of it, seem to share a common conception of morality, i.e. killing is prima facie wrong, rape is wrong, stealing is wrong, lying is prima facie wrong etc.

Maybe you just haven't traveled to the right places? 

And imo many people deep down believe it's fine to kill outside of ones own tribe.


Edited by Icelander (01/31/10 08:55 AM)


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Offlinemescalinician
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: Icelander]
    #11934487 - 01/31/10 08:54 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
People, on the face of it, seem to share a common conception of morality, i.e. killing is prima facie wrong, rape is wrong, stealing is wrong, lying is prima facie wrong etc.

Maybe you just haven't traveled to the right places? 

And imo many people deep down believe it's fine to kill outside of owns own tribe.




I'm just saying that based off my own experiences and limited knowledge of the world man. Perhaps I haven't traveled to the right places. I'm sure there are plenty of counterexamples out there that one could find to my position, but I feel like in general, the vast majority of people share a very, very basic conception of morality.

You're right, a lot of people to think it is OK to kill outside of one's own tribe. That's why I say people think killing is prima facie wrong. Most people wouldn't say that killing in and of itself is OK. When you provide the right circumstances though it it can become acceptable/right.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: mescalinician]
    #11934498 - 01/31/10 08:57 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

IMO your statement demonstrates that ethics are personal or apply to a specific group in specific situations.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinemescalinician
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Re: In the vernacular, [Re: Icelander]
    #11934507 - 01/31/10 09:01 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
IMO your statement demonstrates that ethics are personal or apply to a specific group in specific situations.




Well ethics as most people live by them are very personal. I don't think that means that there isn't one set of universal ethical truths out there though.

And just as with any set of rules, certain situations demand special interest, and thus one rule may apply in that specific situation that wouldn't in others.

What's your opinion on ethics? Are they subjective truths? Objective truths? Or maybe they're not even truths but just expressions of emotion (approval/disapproval)?


--------------------


:awecid:


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