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chemkid
Be excellent toeach other
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The "Evils" of cloning
#1192060 - 01/05/03 08:01 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am confounded by many peoples ethical arguments to stem cell research and cloning. There are just so many good things that can be done with this kind of research and technology. (Iwill spare you my reasons as many have already been mentioned).
Does this mean that evil things can come about with this technology.........absolutely. Bad things can come from the best of things. Any technology can be used for evil. Does this mean we should throw it away and negate the possible good it can do?
It is slightly amusing to me that we have a huge worldwide debate about this wonderful technology yet we didn't even blink an eye in constructing the atomic bomb. (even though a lot of good came from this technology: power supply)
I suspect that any opponent to cloning would swiftly change their mind if their child was dying from a degenerative disease and cloning a new organ could save them.
-------------------- An open mind is the greatest journey of all.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: chemkid]
#1192251 - 01/05/03 09:40 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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People are afraid of sudden change.
-------------------- { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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SnuffelzFurever
Psychonaut
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: chemkid]
#1192283 - 01/05/03 09:51 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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its just that cloning will change so much. it also goes against what many people already believe, and they refuse to change their beliefs... eh well. shit will happen, whether we let it or not. best to go with the flow
-------------------- "I think it's time we stop Children, What's the sound, Everybody look what's going down"
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ChubbSubb
Zen Lunatic
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: Adamist]
#1192336 - 01/05/03 10:18 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fear of the unknown.
-------------------- Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.
Edited by ChubbSubb (01/05/03 10:18 AM)
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FatNug
Si-Hing
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: chemkid]
#1192363 - 01/05/03 10:30 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Construction of the A bomb was for the most part very Classified so no one knew to make a stink, also uninformed people had NO idea how bad the effects of radiation could be, now people do dissagree, but our govt. really doesn't seem to give a fuck. we have almost 15,000 nuclear weapons in this country, 15 is overkill! 10 of these dropped in anwhere would create nuclear winter which would wipe out 90% of the world...
On cloning, I don't think it is appropriate to create another human being with the exact same traits as yourself, talk about vaintiy. Yes stem cell research is a great thing to replace bad hearts, or lost limbs. Clonig is a whole 'nother ball game. people always enmesh these two, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!!! adoption is always gonna be around. There are ways to become pregnant or artificially create life through sperm and egg. But geneticallly programing your clone children to have the "desirable traits" is crossing the friggin line, and frankly Im horrified and scared that we have this technology now. If anyone here thinks that we humans as a race are mature enough to use this without getting out of controll you've got to open your eyes!!
-------------------- ================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: chemkid]
#1192373 - 01/05/03 10:38 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: ]
#1192383 - 01/05/03 10:41 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DNA is not something to be tampered with..
...Unless you know what you're doing. (IMO)
-------------------- { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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soylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: Adamist]
#1192524 - 01/05/03 12:04 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
People are afraid of sudden change.
yep....
-------------------- What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?
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sancho
mexican
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the bad men come with big sharp knives the babies scream and cry but they take their stems away anyways this makes jesus cry
-------------------- Drugs may be the road to nowhere, but at least they're the scenic route.
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EchoVortex
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: chemkid]
#1193029 - 01/05/03 03:12 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ethical questions aside, I can certainly see the usefulness of stem-cell research and organ cloning (if such a thing is possible--I mean, cloning an organ without actually cloning the human being who owns it). I can even see the usefulness of genetic engineering (once again, withholding all ethical judgments). Human beings have a great many undesireable qualities built in as part of their hardwiring. These aspects of "human nature" may have been desirable in the past when survival was often a function of aggressiveness, but these days aggressiveness generally leads to something other than survival (e.g., death or dismemberment). If genetic engineering can produce human beings who are more evolved as human beings, it might be an interesting development in our history. If it's just used to make 500 pound linebackers and bimbos with massive boobs, then everything just turns into a circus.
But for the life of me, I don't really see the point of cloning except for purposes of sheer vanity. Seems sort of like watching reruns. For me it is infinitely more interesting to see what the gene pool lottery comes up with when two DIFFERENT human beings come together to produce something new. Cloning on the other hand is a bit like the ultimate in incest, if you know what I mean. If it catches on as a widespread fad it will also limit genetic diversity and could lead to various inbreeding issues. And then stuff like multi-millionaires hiring thousands of women to give birth to thousands of clones of themselves, stuff like that. Once again, I don't really see what the point would be. Maybe somebody can clue me in.
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upupup
guardian
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: chemkid]
#1193382 - 01/05/03 04:49 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I kept seeing the subject line as the "Elvis" of cloning for some reason which got me thinking that I am deffinaltly thinking that cloning is not good since it could make another Elvis and the first one sucked...... Besides that, it is not "natural" to me and I am deffinatly not into things that I can't just do in the forest with things I can find there which is what I call natural. Besides that it takes all the fun out of people making...... Want I want to know is do the people who support cloning have kids? I would be 20 clams that they don't......Don't ask me why, it's just the way of it. People that don't have children that they are leaving this planet to are usually more into experimental, non-natural (in my deffinition) things that could possibly fuck things up more than they already are.....
-------------------- Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
Edited by upupup (01/05/03 04:51 PM)
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Larrythescaryrex
teardrop on the fire
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: EchoVortex]
#1193390 - 01/05/03 04:52 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah, but who limits evolution?
The ultimate end to that senerio would be when we are like the borg or something. perfectly effiecant and emotionless.
-------------------- RIP Acidic_Sloth Sunset_Mission said: "larry the scary rex verily scary when thoroughly vexed invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex mercifully massacring memories masterfully relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs" April 24th 2011
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EchoVortex
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I wasn't saying I'm FOR genetic engineering, just that I can see how some people might be. If used well it might have an understandable purpose. Knowing humanity, however, it will probably just be used badly.
Cloning, on the other hand, what's the point? Surround yourself with copies of yourself. Great. So what? Not only is it dangerous, it's pointless.
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Larrythescaryrex
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: EchoVortex]
#1193479 - 01/05/03 05:15 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think a clone my be bitter and angry.
-------------------- RIP Acidic_Sloth Sunset_Mission said: "larry the scary rex verily scary when thoroughly vexed invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex mercifully massacring memories masterfully relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs" April 24th 2011
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rommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: Adamist]
#1193747 - 01/05/03 06:17 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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NO!!! using stem cells is evil!!! but it's ok of course to toss them into a dumpster...
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infidelGOD
illusion
Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: chemkid]
#1194186 - 01/05/03 09:48 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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There are just so many good things that can be done with this kind of research and technology. (Iwill spare you my reasons as many have already been mentioned).
I agree that cloning can have some tremendous benefits in the future but I'm opposed to human cloning because it's just too dangerous right now. Every single cloned animal has experienced some adverse health effects. Can't we at least perfect animal cloning before moving on to humans?
We have absolutely no right to condemn a human being to a lifetime of health problems for our "research", not to mention the potentially devastating phycological effects of being a clone - you would have no sense of identity, people would question if you really have a soul, religious types will call you an abomination and you would have no real family.
Hell is what you would experience as a clone in today's world.
Ethically and technologically - WE ARE SIMPLY NOT READY.
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upupup
guardian
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: infidelGOD]
#1195436 - 01/06/03 03:51 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you think the government hasn't already cloned someone your kidding yourself......
-------------------- Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
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Anonymous
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: chemkid]
#1195443 - 01/06/03 03:53 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would have responded to this already but I thought it said, "The Elvis of Cloning".
Sorry, my bad.
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: ]
#1196292 - 01/06/03 09:45 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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rofl what they're cloning Elvis?
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
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Anonymous
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: EchoVortex]
#1196563 - 01/07/03 02:03 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think even aggressiveness has its place. I mean it is just a way of expressing anger. And anger is important for not being exploited and for self defence. I think how it is used is more important. i think if we got rid of anger people wouldnt even be assertive. I know from my studies that anger becomes aggression when people eg. dwell on it or they dont think they can control whatever triggered it .
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GazzBut
Refraction
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: upupup]
#1196653 - 01/07/03 02:56 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cloning, genetic egineering, why resist it? It will happen, you cant stop progress. It strikes me as funny to think that "we" are the ones doing the engineering! We are the product of DNA are we not? So perhaps DNA has just evolved a quicker way of manipulating itself? Sure mistakes and atrocities may occur, eggs and omlettes. Whats more important is the conciousness which we can collectively bring to the table.
oh yeah, there is no such thing as unnatural. Just things you feel comfartable with and things you dont.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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upupup
guardian
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: GazzBut]
#1198344 - 01/07/03 03:02 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sonds like the reasoning of a person who has no stake in the future ie kids....
-------------------- Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
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Grav
Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: GazzBut]
#1198368 - 01/07/03 03:19 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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It seems like it's natural for some people's DNA to oppose this as well.... its not that black & white...
I have this hunch we could be doing better things with our scientific research... This seems like some sort of celebrity pop version of technology.
Why are we even introducing this when people are still shitting themselves over abortion? There's too many excitable kids running around... we gotta make sure they don't see the adult programming or they might go and kill some more doctors so their god will give them candy.
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GazzBut
Refraction
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: Grav]
#1199171 - 01/07/03 08:58 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Upup -Dont really follow your reasoning there! although i havent got any kids of my own - i have a niece and nephew who i care for as if they were my own. and if, god forbid, one of them ever needed an organ id be more than happy for it to be a cloned one.
Grav - I think that there has to be opposistion as it tempers and modifies the original imperative. I just dont think that those resisting it are actually going to get their way and see a stop on all genetic engineering etc. What is it that seems "celeberity pop" to you about cloning? The areas and advances this could open up are beyond are wildest imaginings? What do you mean by excitable kids and adult programming?? Sorry, im still half asleep I think!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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phreakyzen
My God is anAwesome God
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: chemkid]
#1199871 - 01/08/03 06:40 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think cloning exact copies is boring. Lets look at the cloning of Elvis, if it were to happen would we really want Elvis back? Where does that leave diversity? Would all music become Elvis because it is desirable?
The same with cloning a desirable cow for it's meat qualities do you really want to eat the exact same piece of meat for the rest of your life? I think that this would be an evolutionary dead end but again there are many useful things to come from the technology just not exact copies.
I think we may come to the point of everlasting life from all this. We get to point where we are able to download all of our memories into our duplicates and carry on from there forever. Is it scary? sure it is but so was the printing press or any other technology that created major change in society. I do not think we should stop research because of the unknown but I agree that we should maybe evolve more spiritually before jumping in blindly. Once we cross the line it is impossible to go back and start over again. We will have to build from our mistakes if we can recover from them.
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Spiffy
Defender of theGnomes
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: chemkid]
#1201953 - 01/08/03 05:31 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I definitely think some good could come from the technology, but humans are not ready. Spiritually, emotionally, physically...its not time for that yet. The point someone made about life as a clone with no family and being shunned is a scary thought....and a reality. If this organization who have supposedly made human clones turns out to be for real, I hope it is a learning experience and the LAST ones for a while. But I don't believe them...they seem a little crazy and the story keeps twisting...plus, they gain from the publicity...truth or not.
-------------------- Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you, there is only one of us."
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GazzBut
Refraction
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: Spiffy]
#1202552 - 01/09/03 12:07 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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"I definitely think some good could come from the technology, but humans are not ready. "
Do you have a direct line to god?...can i have his number please?!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Spiffy
Defender of theGnomes
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: GazzBut]
#1204665 - 01/09/03 02:41 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cloning is serious business...its not something to fuck around with...and there are many people in this world who would use it irresponsibly. I don't think we should mess with this science until we've at least come to a point where we can understand it...all aspects of it such as long term effects.
-------------------- Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you, there is only one of us."
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GazzBut
Refraction
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: Spiffy]
#1206946 - 01/10/03 10:44 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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How can we come to an understanding of something without messing around with it? Surely that is how science has always worked. Trial, error and experimentation.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: GazzBut]
#1207546 - 01/10/03 03:44 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's exactly what I ask alot.
-------------------- { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Spiffy
Defender of theGnomes
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Re: The "Evils" of cloning [Re: GazzBut]
#1207984 - 01/10/03 07:00 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you think its fair to clone a human....imagine being that human. Imagine being born as an experiment...being poked and prodded and tested your whole life. You probably have numerous physical problems. You are not an individual but an exact copy of another person...you have no real family...you have no real identity. You are simply a scientific study. Would you want to live like that? Would you want a child to have to grow up like that? Would you like to live in a world where everyone looked the same...where everyone was a copy of someone else? I wouldn't!
-------------------- Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you, there is only one of us."
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