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OfflineDr. Seuss
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Oh no, it's an MAOI!
    #11907388 - 01/26/10 09:02 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

After discovering that it's possible to make Ayahuasca without  tannins, I've done some research on it. The plan seems almost to good to be true; it takes less than a day and can be done with basic cooking procedures. The result is a 3-5 hour, DMT-driven trip without any violent vomiting.

However, there is a catch.
Syrian rue is an MAOI inhibitor.

I have friends who are very interested, but I worry for their health. Quite a lot of people I know are prescribed things like Adderall and Concerta. I'm aware of the things one shouldn't do in combination with an MAOI, but I would like to know:

How long must one go without things that should be avoided with MAOIs before safely using one? How long afterward?

More specifically, common things like smart drugs, nasal decongestants, alcohol, protein supplements, etc...


--------------------
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Offlinersinatra13
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11907450 - 01/26/10 09:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

just throwing this out there, ive used rue as an MAOI for these trips without knowing anything about the foods/drugs/ect. that you shouldnt eat/consume/use/whatever and ive been fine


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Offlinegornyhuy
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11907621 - 01/26/10 09:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Care to share the Ayahuasca info? I know NOTHINK!


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OfflineDr. Seuss
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Registered: 11/08/09
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: gornyhuy]
    #11907655 - 01/26/10 09:40 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

gornyhuy said:
Care to share the Ayahuasca info? I know NOTHINK!



rsinatra13's DMT Jello Tek

^ That's one recipe


--------------------
Today you are you, that is truer than true.
There is no one alive who is youer than you.

LOAD UNIVERSE INTO CANNON
AIM AT BRAIN
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Offlinersinatra13
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11907755 - 01/26/10 09:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

and i can confirm it works :trippinballs:


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OfflineKeg
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Registered: 10/17/09
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11908003 - 01/26/10 10:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

rsinatra13 said:
just throwing this out there, ive used rue as an MAOI for these trips without knowing anything about the foods/drugs/ect. that you shouldnt eat/consume/use/whatever and ive been fine





Really stupid. Certain drugs or food can be really dangerous if you take an MAOI.

Check Erowid for details: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml

For duration that a drug lasts in the system, check erowid and other sites for information specific to each drug.


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Offlinersinatra13
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Keg]
    #11908158 - 01/26/10 10:57 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Keg said:
Quote:

rsinatra13 said:
just throwing this out there, ive used rue as an MAOI for these trips without knowing anything about the foods/drugs/ect. that you shouldnt eat/consume/use/whatever and ive been fine





Really stupid. Certain drugs or food can be really dangerous if you take an MAOI.

Check Erowid for details: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml

For duration that a drug lasts in the system, check erowid and other sites for information specific to each drug.





i wasnt saying it wasnt stupid, i just wasnt aware, and now i am :thumbup:


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OfflineKeg
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11908323 - 01/26/10 11:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry, didn't intend to mean it that way.

I meant that taking a drug without knowing how it could potentially interact with other drugs is not the brightest thing to do.


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Offlinersinatra13
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Keg]
    #11908386 - 01/26/10 11:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Keg said:
Sorry, didn't intend to mean it that way.

I meant that taking a drug without knowing how it could potentially interact with other drugs is not the brightest thing to do.




and i say thats good info :thumbup:


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InvisibleFunkMasterShroom
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11908572 - 01/26/10 11:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

With syrian rue, harmaline is a rather short acting (though powerful considering) MAOI.. so typically there is little worry when it comes to the kinds of foods your gonna ingest.. By the time the trip is over, (and not likely you'll be eating much while high) it shouldn't be a problem.. as for adverse drug reactions with prescriptions/etc.. Definetly worth checking into more.. though in most cases tends to just potentiate the drugs, much as it does for psylocin/DMT..


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To get to the other side.

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Offlinefireshaman
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11908747 - 01/27/10 12:10 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I would study Erowid for a more elaborite list...

Caapi and Rue do not act as long as some MAOIs.

However many prescription drugs do linger in the system for long periods of time...

Street drugs + MAOIS can be deadly too.

I would avoid all prescriptions and follow a good diet outlined on a site like Erowid.


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Offlinecsrpj
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: fireshaman]
    #11909012 - 01/27/10 12:50 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

that's great that you're careful with this.

protein supplements are fine. i can't think of any smart drugs that should negatively interact with MAOIs.


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InvisibleMoo456
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Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 4,591
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11909590 - 01/27/10 03:20 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You still want to avoid eating foods with monoamines for at least 12 hours though. Its well known that 5-htp causes much tolerance to DMT and makes DMT trips weaker. The level of these neurotransmitter-eusque substances gets out of control with a strong MAOI such as syrian rue can even cause severe headaches caused by blood pressure.

meat and dairy are heavy in monoamines FYI.


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Edited by Moo456 (01/27/10 08:58 PM)


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InvisibleMoo456
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Moo456]
    #11909598 - 01/27/10 03:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

By the way Adderall and Concerta are a big NO with MAOI's. Theyre stimulants and could be deadly with an MAOI.
I would avoid those for 2-3 days straight before touching an MAOI.


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Edited by Moo456 (01/27/10 05:12 AM)


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Offline13.step
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Moo456]
    #11910134 - 01/27/10 08:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It's a well known fact that the alkaloids in Syrian rue aren't MAOI's,don't believe me?look it up yourself.They belong to the class of substances called RIMA's (reversible inhibitors of MAO) and they specifically only inhibit the MAO subtype that brakes down tryptamines leaving the other one to do it's job in breaking down tyramine.So basically what I am saying is that there are no interactions with food while taking Syrian Rue or Caapi,you could eat aged cheese and chase it down with Chianti and add a salami sandwich to it all and you'll be fine.

Meds on the other hand are a different story.Meds that raise serotonin levels in the brain put you at risk of serotonine syndrome when combined with harmalas.This includes most antidepressants,DXM,Ecstasy and a lot of other drugs.Best to look them up to because there are safe drugs to combine with harmalas and there are potentially dangerous ones.It has been shown that the dose taken with Ayahuasca doesn't suppress MAO in the brain,only in the gut and liver if I remember correctly but I wouldn't want to risk it.

To sum it up,yes alkaloids form Syrian Rue inhibit MAO but they do so selectively and reversibly so their safety profile is a lot better then that of the substances conventionally referred to as MAOI's.Also they don't inhibit it to strong and it seems that they leave the brain alone in doing so.This being said be very careful if you decide to use them because they can still interact with meds to have potentially life-threatening consequences,serotonin-syndrome being the main concern,not hyper-tensive crisis.They are not recreational drugs and if you don't know what you are doing better leave them be.


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OfflineAround In Circles
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11910363 - 01/27/10 10:40 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Don't make it so hard on yourself.

200mg Tetrahydroharmine + Orange Juice

100mg DMT + Orange Juice

=

Lift off.

No purge.

Just be careful and make sure you have a sitter.


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"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts


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Offlinelurkmode
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Registered: 05/20/08
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11911029 - 01/27/10 01:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

13.step is right about the rima thing but screwing w/ ones body chemistry in this manner has always unnerved me and led me to try to stick to the maoi diet.

However, every time I've done mimosahuasca I've been left w/ a terrible headache that always appears after my post-trip meal. Regardless of how closely I stick to the diet it never fails. It could be that I'm always hungry afterwards and it's hard to not overeat. This could be the cause.

It's not a bad idea to stick to the maoi diet the day of - one healthy meal occasionally never hurt anybody :wink:


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OfflineSheeno
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Registered: 11/25/09
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11912135 - 01/27/10 04:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. Seuss said:
After discovering that it's possible to make Ayahuasca without  tannins, I've done some research on it. The plan seems almost to good to be true; it takes less than a day and can be done with basic cooking procedures. The result is a 3-5 hour, DMT-driven trip without any violent vomiting.

However, there is a catch.
Syrian rue is an MAOI inhibitor.

I have friends who are very interested, but I worry for their health. Quite a lot of people I know are prescribed things like Adderall and Concerta. I'm aware of the things one shouldn't do in combination with an MAOI, but I would like to know:

How long must one go without things that should be avoided with MAOIs before safely using one? How long afterward?

More specifically, common things like smart drugs, nasal decongestants, alcohol, protein supplements, etc...




I don't know as much as the people above and so am going to contribute nothing to this thread, but I am a little bit pedantic with acronyms. For the record, MAOI stands for Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor, so you should either call it an MAOI or an MAO inhibitor. Not an MAOI inhibitor. :wink:


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OfflineZenClarity
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11912234 - 01/27/10 04:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BrainFood said:
Don't make it so hard on yourself.

200mg Tetrahydroharmine + Orange Juice

100mg DMT + Orange Juice

=

Lift off.

No purge.

Just be careful and make sure you have a sitter.




That easy eh? hmm.. interesting.


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InvisibleMoo456
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: 13.step]
    #11912305 - 01/27/10 04:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

13.step said:
It's a well known fact that the alkaloids in Syrian rue aren't MAOI's,don't believe me?look it up yourself.They belong to the class of substances called RIMA's (reversible inhibitors of MAO)




Yes a reversible MAOI. The words are just arranged differently. The difference is it doesnt last as long as a non-reversible one. Trust me there are side effects if you eat enough of the wrong thing with syrian rue.


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Edited by Moo456 (01/27/10 05:32 PM)


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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: ZenClarity]
    #11912332 - 01/27/10 04:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Don't take any other drugs for a week before and don't eat on the day. Easy.  I think Syrian rue is supposed to be safer than a pharmaceutical MAOI.


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Offlinealbien5
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: mongo lloyd]
    #11912725 - 01/27/10 06:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i did it yesterday and the day before. Syrian Rue and mimosa as a tea.
The experience was intense lasts 3 - 4 hours , the second time 5 seven hours i had a drink and my head was near to make crash a lot of pain ...
I suggest after taking MAOI eat not  cheese and meat dont drink alcohol and never take medicines  . Dedicate the day to ayahuasca .
Before some years i made the mistake to take xanax after 3 hours , i had headache for a month, be very careful . The meat is ok but no alcohol or other psychoactive plus never try to take dopaminergic such as cocaine or MDMA .

The ayahuasca with Syrian Rue is cleaner, with some lemon it has no much nausea and it needs much less DMT 15 g of mimosa into the tea is fine.


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InvisibleMoo456
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: albien5]
    #11912805 - 01/27/10 06:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I wouldnt think that xanax would be bad with an MAOI. Arnt hypertensive crises'  treated with benzodiazapines?


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Offlinejw2234
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! *DELETED* [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11914345 - 01/27/10 10:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by jw2234

Reason for deletion: .



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Offlinersinatra13
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: jw2234]
    #11914527 - 01/27/10 10:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

jw2234 said:
Quote:

Dr. Seuss said:
The result is a 3-5 hour, DMT-driven trip without any violent vomiting.




IMO, doing this is a mistake. I personally would choose to do ayahuasca the traditional way (with the purging) because it supposedly clears the bad energy in your body/mind, and helps banish the darkness from you spirit. it has been used by shamans this way for thousands of years. i mean obviously it isnt the end of the world if you didnt purge but i feel like that part of the experience is one of the things that makes ayahuasca so special, and above all, the plant healer that it is, and is used as.




.... what if you just wanna trip and have a good time :shrug:


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Offline13.step
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11916526 - 01/28/10 10:13 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't really think you can trip and have a good time on ayahuasca,on low doses maybe,but the deeper you go in the more introspective and weird it gets,I don't have that much experience with it so it would be nice if someone could prove me wrong,but that's how it's been for me.

Oh and I don't doubt that you can get a bad interaction with food and Syrian rue,just not if you eat normally,only if you overdo it.Tyramine can in high enough dosage cause a reaction by itself,i'm sure that syrian rue lowers that threshold somewhat.

I respect that people might want take the diet for spiritual purposes or believe that purging is part of the healing and i don't doubt that for them it is,but combining something that makes you're psyche susceptible to suggestion with a drug that has a lower safety profile then most can sometimes leave you with a month-long headache.


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InvisibleMoo456
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: 13.step]
    #11916537 - 01/28/10 10:18 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The headache isnt placebo, but I do wonder why anyone would get a month long headache from an interaction. I only get a headache for the duration of the MAOI effects (up to 12 hours).

Oral DMT can certainly be fun at a medium dose. Its one of my favorite drugs.


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Offlinersinatra13
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Moo456]
    #11916828 - 01/28/10 11:48 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i have fun on my medium doses of aya :shrug:
the visuals are much better than most of my shroom trips


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Offline13.step
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11922459 - 01/29/10 07:22 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Man,you guys make me miss oral DMT now that I can't have it(st. johns wort).I didn't mean to say that the headaches are placebo,just that a lot of the side-effects that some people notice are,like the month long headache.


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