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OfflineDr. Seuss
The Cat in the Hat


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 174
Loc: Seussville
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Oh no, it's an MAOI!
    #11907388 - 01/26/10 09:02 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

After discovering that it's possible to make Ayahuasca without  tannins, I've done some research on it. The plan seems almost to good to be true; it takes less than a day and can be done with basic cooking procedures. The result is a 3-5 hour, DMT-driven trip without any violent vomiting.

However, there is a catch.
Syrian rue is an MAOI inhibitor.

I have friends who are very interested, but I worry for their health. Quite a lot of people I know are prescribed things like Adderall and Concerta. I'm aware of the things one shouldn't do in combination with an MAOI, but I would like to know:

How long must one go without things that should be avoided with MAOIs before safely using one? How long afterward?

More specifically, common things like smart drugs, nasal decongestants, alcohol, protein supplements, etc...


--------------------
Today you are you, that is truer than true.
There is no one alive who is youer than you.

LOAD UNIVERSE INTO CANNON
AIM AT BRAIN
FIRE


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Offlinersinatra13
ⓅⓈⓘⓛⓞⒸⓨⓑⓘⓃ
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Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 1,738
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11907450 - 01/26/10 09:11 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

just throwing this out there, ive used rue as an MAOI for these trips without knowing anything about the foods/drugs/ect. that you shouldnt eat/consume/use/whatever and ive been fine


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Offlinegornyhuy
A Myth Intrepidly Met
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Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 2,933
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11907621 - 01/26/10 09:36 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

Care to share the Ayahuasca info? I know NOTHINK!


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OfflineDr. Seuss
The Cat in the Hat


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 174
Loc: Seussville
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: gornyhuy]
    #11907655 - 01/26/10 09:40 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

gornyhuy said:
Care to share the Ayahuasca info? I know NOTHINK!



rsinatra13's DMT Jello Tek

^ That's one recipe


--------------------
Today you are you, that is truer than true.
There is no one alive who is youer than you.

LOAD UNIVERSE INTO CANNON
AIM AT BRAIN
FIRE


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Offlinersinatra13
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Registered: 10/02/09
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11907755 - 01/26/10 09:54 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

and i can confirm it works :trippinballs:


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OfflineKeg
Medicated Stoner
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 110
Loc: Northwest Rainforest, Can...
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11908003 - 01/26/10 10:34 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

rsinatra13 said:
just throwing this out there, ive used rue as an MAOI for these trips without knowing anything about the foods/drugs/ect. that you shouldnt eat/consume/use/whatever and ive been fine





Really stupid. Certain drugs or food can be really dangerous if you take an MAOI.

Check Erowid for details: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml

For duration that a drug lasts in the system, check erowid and other sites for information specific to each drug.


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Offlinersinatra13
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Keg]
    #11908158 - 01/26/10 10:57 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Keg said:
Quote:

rsinatra13 said:
just throwing this out there, ive used rue as an MAOI for these trips without knowing anything about the foods/drugs/ect. that you shouldnt eat/consume/use/whatever and ive been fine





Really stupid. Certain drugs or food can be really dangerous if you take an MAOI.

Check Erowid for details: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml

For duration that a drug lasts in the system, check erowid and other sites for information specific to each drug.





i wasnt saying it wasnt stupid, i just wasnt aware, and now i am :thumbup:


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OfflineKeg
Medicated Stoner
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 110
Loc: Northwest Rainforest, Can...
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11908323 - 01/26/10 11:19 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

Sorry, didn't intend to mean it that way.

I meant that taking a drug without knowing how it could potentially interact with other drugs is not the brightest thing to do.


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Offlinersinatra13
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Keg]
    #11908386 - 01/26/10 11:26 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Keg said:
Sorry, didn't intend to mean it that way.

I meant that taking a drug without knowing how it could potentially interact with other drugs is not the brightest thing to do.




and i say thats good info :thumbup:


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InvisibleFunkMasterShroom
Stranger
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Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 1,379
Loc: Canada
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11908572 - 01/26/10 11:47 PM (12 years, 4 days ago)

With syrian rue, harmaline is a rather short acting (though powerful considering) MAOI.. so typically there is little worry when it comes to the kinds of foods your gonna ingest.. By the time the trip is over, (and not likely you'll be eating much while high) it shouldn't be a problem.. as for adverse drug reactions with prescriptions/etc.. Definetly worth checking into more.. though in most cases tends to just potentiate the drugs, much as it does for psylocin/DMT..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...


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Offlinefireshaman
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 961
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
    #11908747 - 01/27/10 12:10 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

I would study Erowid for a more elaborite list...

Caapi and Rue do not act as long as some MAOIs.

However many prescription drugs do linger in the system for long periods of time...

Street drugs + MAOIS can be deadly too.

I would avoid all prescriptions and follow a good diet outlined on a site like Erowid.


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Nomad 2013 Trade List
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17137809


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Offlinecsrpj
no one's a stranger
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 983
Loc: bay area, california
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: fireshaman]
    #11909012 - 01/27/10 12:50 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

that's great that you're careful with this.

protein supplements are fine. i can't think of any smart drugs that should negatively interact with MAOIs.


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InvisibleMoo456
Pied_Piper


Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 4,591
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11909590 - 01/27/10 03:20 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

You still want to avoid eating foods with monoamines for at least 12 hours though. Its well known that 5-htp causes much tolerance to DMT and makes DMT trips weaker. The level of these neurotransmitter-eusque substances gets out of control with a strong MAOI such as syrian rue can even cause severe headaches caused by blood pressure.

meat and dairy are heavy in monoamines FYI.


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Edited by Moo456 (01/27/10 08:58 PM)


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InvisibleMoo456
Pied_Piper


Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 4,591
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Moo456]
    #11909598 - 01/27/10 03:27 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

By the way Adderall and Concerta are a big NO with MAOI's. Theyre stimulants and could be deadly with an MAOI.
I would avoid those for 2-3 days straight before touching an MAOI.


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Edited by Moo456 (01/27/10 05:12 AM)


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Offline13.step
cynical bastard
Male


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Moo456]
    #11910134 - 01/27/10 08:55 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

It's a well known fact that the alkaloids in Syrian rue aren't MAOI's,don't believe me?look it up yourself.They belong to the class of substances called RIMA's (reversible inhibitors of MAO) and they specifically only inhibit the MAO subtype that brakes down tryptamines leaving the other one to do it's job in breaking down tyramine.So basically what I am saying is that there are no interactions with food while taking Syrian Rue or Caapi,you could eat aged cheese and chase it down with Chianti and add a salami sandwich to it all and you'll be fine.

Meds on the other hand are a different story.Meds that raise serotonin levels in the brain put you at risk of serotonine syndrome when combined with harmalas.This includes most antidepressants,DXM,Ecstasy and a lot of other drugs.Best to look them up to because there are safe drugs to combine with harmalas and there are potentially dangerous ones.It has been shown that the dose taken with Ayahuasca doesn't suppress MAO in the brain,only in the gut and liver if I remember correctly but I wouldn't want to risk it.

To sum it up,yes alkaloids form Syrian Rue inhibit MAO but they do so selectively and reversibly so their safety profile is a lot better then that of the substances conventionally referred to as MAOI's.Also they don't inhibit it to strong and it seems that they leave the brain alone in doing so.This being said be very careful if you decide to use them because they can still interact with meds to have potentially life-threatening consequences,serotonin-syndrome being the main concern,not hyper-tensive crisis.They are not recreational drugs and if you don't know what you are doing better leave them be.


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Not to be taken seriously by any means!


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OfflineAround In Circles
Eternally Recurring


Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 1,108
Last seen: 4 days, 19 hours
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11910363 - 01/27/10 10:40 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

Don't make it so hard on yourself.

200mg Tetrahydroharmine + Orange Juice

100mg DMT + Orange Juice

=

Lift off.

No purge.

Just be careful and make sure you have a sitter.


--------------------
"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts


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Offlinelurkmode
Stranger


Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 1,375
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11911029 - 01/27/10 01:17 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

13.step is right about the rima thing but screwing w/ ones body chemistry in this manner has always unnerved me and led me to try to stick to the maoi diet.

However, every time I've done mimosahuasca I've been left w/ a terrible headache that always appears after my post-trip meal. Regardless of how closely I stick to the diet it never fails. It could be that I'm always hungry afterwards and it's hard to not overeat. This could be the cause.

It's not a bad idea to stick to the maoi diet the day of - one healthy meal occasionally never hurt anybody :wink:


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OfflineSheeno
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 1,068
Loc: England
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
    #11912135 - 01/27/10 04:11 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Dr. Seuss said:
After discovering that it's possible to make Ayahuasca without  tannins, I've done some research on it. The plan seems almost to good to be true; it takes less than a day and can be done with basic cooking procedures. The result is a 3-5 hour, DMT-driven trip without any violent vomiting.

However, there is a catch.
Syrian rue is an MAOI inhibitor.

I have friends who are very interested, but I worry for their health. Quite a lot of people I know are prescribed things like Adderall and Concerta. I'm aware of the things one shouldn't do in combination with an MAOI, but I would like to know:

How long must one go without things that should be avoided with MAOIs before safely using one? How long afterward?

More specifically, common things like smart drugs, nasal decongestants, alcohol, protein supplements, etc...




I don't know as much as the people above and so am going to contribute nothing to this thread, but I am a little bit pedantic with acronyms. For the record, MAOI stands for Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor, so you should either call it an MAOI or an MAO inhibitor. Not an MAOI inhibitor. :wink:


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OfflineZenClarity
SpiralOfChange
Male


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 951
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Around In Circles]
    #11912234 - 01/27/10 04:30 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

BrainFood said:
Don't make it so hard on yourself.

200mg Tetrahydroharmine + Orange Juice

100mg DMT + Orange Juice

=

Lift off.

No purge.

Just be careful and make sure you have a sitter.




That easy eh? hmm.. interesting.


--------------------


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InvisibleMoo456
Pied_Piper

Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 4,591
Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: 13.step]
    #11912305 - 01/27/10 04:45 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

13.step said:
It's a well known fact that the alkaloids in Syrian rue aren't MAOI's,don't believe me?look it up yourself.They belong to the class of substances called RIMA's (reversible inhibitors of MAO)




Yes a reversible MAOI. The words are just arranged differently. The difference is it doesnt last as long as a non-reversible one. Trust me there are side effects if you eat enough of the wrong thing with syrian rue.


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Edited by Moo456 (01/27/10 05:32 PM)


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