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Offlinetony serro
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11916457 - 01/28/10 07:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AmericanSpirit said:
crystal meth contains synthetic adrenaline, so results in a direct increase in adrenaline.




:lol::rofl::lol: Crystal meth contains synthetic adrenaline? Methamphetamine is one chemical fool, it does not "contain" anything other than one or both isomers of methamphetamine and whatever by products result from incomplete synth. Synthetic adrenaline does exist and works only if administered by IV. :facepalm: Methamphetamine also shows pretty high affinity for serotonin release. Not as much as mdma, but yes it does release serotonin and in high doses does have "loved effects." :facepalm:

ADD causes anti sociability? I have ADD and most people I know with the condition have the reverse of this problem.


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The most thoroughly and relentlessly damned, banned, excluded, condemned, suppressed,brutalized and defamed of all Damned Things is the individual human being. The social engineers, are perpetually forcing this Damned Thing into carefully prepared blueprints and perpetually irritated that the Damned Thing will not fit into the slot assigned to it. The theologians call it a sinner and try to reform it The governor calls it a criminal and tries to punish it The psychotherapist calls it a neurotic and tries to cure it. Still, the Damned Thing will not fit into their slots. -Robert Anton Wilson

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InvisibleAmericanSpirit
Loose Cannon
Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Eschillion
Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: tony serro]
    #11917734 - 01/28/10 01:21 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/meth.impurities2.html

-meth from ephedrine

I have seen (pseudo)ephedrine described as synthetic adrenaline in many places. I also knew someone who claimed to be immune to cocaine, but to get a significant boost from meth - & thought this had to be because meth has more affinity for epinephrine and the person had irregular dopamine receptors.

Synthetic adrenaline - adrenaline manufactured synthetically, or a synthetic product with an extremely high affinity for adrenaline - meaning, that directly encourages high levels of adrenaline increase

But since I don't take stimulants and never have, I admit I'm very ignorant.

Links on Meth & Serotonin
http://www.montana.edu/wwwai/imsd/rezmeth/transmit.htm

http://www.kci.org/meth_info/msg_board_posts/041506/meth_serotonin_levels.htm

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6SYR-48M36FJ-J&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F25%2F1989&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1184709393&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=50c782772c9158319f8d9706fdeb61a9 - that meth is neurotoxic to serotonin

If meth at high doses increases serotonin for duration, I would guess it would be because the two neurotransmitter systems are so interrelated - or that the high itself triggers an emotional reaction of, "How profound"

ADD causes anti sociability? I have ADD and most people I know with the condition have the reverse of this problem.

-Many people are diagnosed as one thing opposed to another because of the difficulty in administering precise diagnosis, & ADD is the most common diagnosis. By anti social, I meant asocial, or less in need of social interaction. Also, many if not most ADD kids are at some point prescribed dopamine boosting stimulants as treatment


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Edited by AmericanSpirit (01/28/10 03:05 PM)

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Offlinetony serro
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11917803 - 01/28/10 01:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:facepalm: Where the hell does what you posted from erowid mention adrenaline getting into methamphetamine, can you quote it please because I did not see it and had to have the misfortune of reading an article on basic chemistry I learned at 16. O and because you would describe a a mostly peripherally acting stimulant as synthethic ANYTHING makes it true? Obviously you don't have a pharmacology or a chemistry degree or you wouldn't be making absurd statements such as saying that ephedrine is synthetic adrenaline. You said there "is adrenaline in methamphetamine". And serotonin and dopamine are interrelated? I can put up arguments for both and won't bother, but go open a medical journal and you'll see that d-meth definitely shows high affinity for releasing serotonin. :facepalm: God...


--------------------
The most thoroughly and relentlessly damned, banned, excluded, condemned, suppressed,brutalized and defamed of all Damned Things is the individual human being. The social engineers, are perpetually forcing this Damned Thing into carefully prepared blueprints and perpetually irritated that the Damned Thing will not fit into the slot assigned to it. The theologians call it a sinner and try to reform it The governor calls it a criminal and tries to punish it The psychotherapist calls it a neurotic and tries to cure it. Still, the Damned Thing will not fit into their slots. -Robert Anton Wilson

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Offlinetony serro
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Registered: 08/20/09
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: tony serro]
    #11917809 - 01/28/10 01:30 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)



Adrenaline.



Ephedrine.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


--------------------
The most thoroughly and relentlessly damned, banned, excluded, condemned, suppressed,brutalized and defamed of all Damned Things is the individual human being. The social engineers, are perpetually forcing this Damned Thing into carefully prepared blueprints and perpetually irritated that the Damned Thing will not fit into the slot assigned to it. The theologians call it a sinner and try to reform it The governor calls it a criminal and tries to punish it The psychotherapist calls it a neurotic and tries to cure it. Still, the Damned Thing will not fit into their slots. -Robert Anton Wilson

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InvisibleAmericanSpirit
Loose Cannon
Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 85
Loc: Eschillion
Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: tony serro]
    #11917926 - 01/28/10 01:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think it's the end of the world if I say something unobjective. Your emotional reaction seems way off the wall to me.

I mentioned epinephrine in my original post, which as far as I know is adrenaline - I also noticed a lot of mistakes, and on first edit you had already replied to me twice, as if you were just waiting to jump.

You're doing a lot of face palming, but let me ask you something - did I ever claim to have any degrees, or did I emphasise that I had none?

I'm not even going to correct my mistakes at this point, because fixing them is irrelevant to the original point of this thread - which I don't think has been damaged.

This message board isn't a medical journal, it is a friendly environment wherein to openly discuss psychedelic drugs. People with high dopamine count & low serotonin count tend to react like that - they cannot tolerate the unfathomable ignorance which surrounds them, they know what they're talking about and it isn't fair that so many people don't - yet dare to open that big fat mouth.


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Offlinetony serro
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11922597 - 01/29/10 07:08 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I wasn't being unfriendly man your just spreading misinformation and are making it sound like you know what your talking about. I'm 18 and have no medical degrees either but I make sure I know I'm right about something before saying it. Maybe sometimes I'm an asshole sorry about that but seriously man research your shit next time before posting...

Quote:

AmericanSpirit said:
People with high dopamine count & low serotonin count tend to react like that




High dopamine count? I told you I have ADD and I'm highly dysfunctional I doubt many people here have lower amounts of DA in their brain than I probably do:smirk: But again your not a neurologist and haven't seen a PET scan of my brain so you shouldn't really be making claims like this... Again sorry if I sounded like a dickhead, that wasn't cool I just hate ignorance especially when it comes to drugs, but it could have been worse, if hpi had seen this...:lol:


--------------------
The most thoroughly and relentlessly damned, banned, excluded, condemned, suppressed,brutalized and defamed of all Damned Things is the individual human being. The social engineers, are perpetually forcing this Damned Thing into carefully prepared blueprints and perpetually irritated that the Damned Thing will not fit into the slot assigned to it. The theologians call it a sinner and try to reform it The governor calls it a criminal and tries to punish it The psychotherapist calls it a neurotic and tries to cure it. Still, the Damned Thing will not fit into their slots. -Robert Anton Wilson

Edited by tony serro (01/29/10 07:14 AM)

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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11923721 - 01/29/10 11:43 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AmericanSpirit said:
I don't think it's the end of the world if I say something unobjective. Your emotional reaction seems way off the wall to me.

I mentioned epinephrine in my original post, which as far as I know is adrenaline - I also noticed a lot of mistakes, and on first edit you had already replied to me twice, as if you were just waiting to jump.

You're doing a lot of face palming, but let me ask you something - did I ever claim to have any degrees, or did I emphasise that I had none?

I'm not even going to correct my mistakes at this point, because fixing them is irrelevant to the original point of this thread - which I don't think has been damaged.

This message board isn't a medical journal, it is a friendly environment wherein to openly discuss psychedelic drugs. People with high dopamine count & low serotonin count tend to react like that - they cannot tolerate the unfathomable ignorance which surrounds them, they know what they're talking about and it isn't fair that so many people don't - yet dare to open that big fat mouth.



hes just simply ssaying. like i was. that you are going way overboard here. you dont know exactly wat you are typing. its not that its objective. its just not correct.

also there is much more to you than your head and your heary.tho they ar often the focus of alot of mindless energy wastage. along with the genitals


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InvisibleAmericanSpirit
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: notapillow]
    #11925974 - 01/29/10 06:47 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not extremely well researched on the topic of psychiatry, certainly not enough to give medical advice, but I don't take back my original statement because my opinion hasn't changed - & I never claimed to be an expert in the first place.

From what little I know of ephedrine & pseudoephedrine, there is more an affinity for adrenaline, norepinephrine if not epinephrine, & less an affinity for dopamine, than with cocaine, making pseudoephedrine more likely to directly trigger adrenaline rather than doing so as an indirect consequence of dopamine release. & Since methamphetamine is made from (pseudo)ephedrine, & also because an extremely small amount of online research indicates that it is so, I consider it more probable than not that meth is the same way - meaning meth contains a component of synthetic adrenaline.

(synthetic is defined in many different ways).

I have been attempting to spot check myself on this one, & read at least one credible article from a medical journal indicating that pseudoephedrine has low affinity for dopamine & high affinity for norepinephrine. I also read an article claiming that (pseudo)ephedrine is often confused with epinephrine.

I do not deny that meth can impact serotonin, any more than I would deny that LSD impacts dopamine - LSD impacts dopamine rather dramatically in many cases, probably most trips involve a significant increase in dopamine activity. But meth is primarily a dopamine high, & LSD primarily a serotonin high. I do not consider that an ignorant conclusion. (& meth is probably toxic to serotonin, as mentioned in one of the above posts)

I think it is ok to talk about these things even if you don't have a medical degree - which I have always emphasised about myself, before you saw fit to, over and over again, in what seemed to me to be an egotistical, impulsive, and intolerant manner, point that out. But I also must acknowledge that message board posts are easy to misinterpret - & I could have simply misinterpreted all of those facepalms and the condemning reply made two seconds after I responded to your first condemning remark, while I was in the middle of editing.

I would never ask anyone, "Are you high?" It is an extremely stupid question because the answer is obviously always literally "No." I don't know anybody who uses drugs, and probably very rarely encounter any such person on the internet. But anyone who ever has, for a significant period of time - has plausibly undergone significant brain chemistry changes overtime. I know my brain chemistry is dramatically different, from what it would have been had I never taken drugs.

I also don't presume to tell you what your brain chemistry is.

I appreciate your apology, & in the future I will be a bit more careful how I word my own statements... but I will probably make many, many ill informed statements in the future, by way of casual conversation.


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InvisibleAmericanSpirit
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Registered: 01/25/10
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Loc: Eschillion
pragmatism. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11926024 - 01/29/10 06:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Since the thread has been a bit diverted, I figure I'd make some point.

For whatever reason (too many resources of information to cite), I consider the probability to be 99.999% Nirvana, in the sense of indiscriminate, ego free love, exists. But since I cannot prove that, all I can offer is the tools that have been useful to me, in hopes they will be useful to someone else.

Person, Tony Serro - various useful pieces of advice can be taken from his statements, & some of them seem irrational to me. These statements, as my statements, resulted from an inevitable process of energy transfer known as Determinism.

Person, American Spirit - various useful pieces of advice might be taken from my own statement, if I was caused to help based on my karmic position. & probably there's bullcrap in there too.

These judgements are, in my opinion, most rationally focused if they are focused on the statements made, rather than the people who made them. At least that way, objectivity is increasing and negative emotions aren't pulling me down.

/me goes into the kitchen to prepare a bananadine joint


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Offlinesolstice
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Re: pragmatism. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11926089 - 01/29/10 07:07 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Enjoy the banana!  :bigjoint: As I enjoyed your theory!


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung

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OfflineJabbawaya

Registered: 07/10/05
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Re: pragmatism. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11926094 - 01/29/10 07:09 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Your information on neuroscience and organic chemistry is mostly incorrect, and I know that's not your area of expertise, but presenting a scientific mechanism to describe spiritual phenomena -- which is all speculation anyway -- is going to be even more difficult without well-researched information. This is a very complex thing you're attempting to do, and it is much more complicated than focusing solely on neurotransmitters.

You clearly have a good mind for spiritual and philosophical issues, so maybe do what you're best at. I'm sure many of us would like to hear more of your philosophical ideas instead, plus we can't poke at the technical scientific issues :wink:


--------------------

Edited by Jabbawaya (01/29/10 07:17 PM)

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InvisibleLibertin
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11926102 - 01/29/10 07:10 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I know what the OP is doing, he/she is -thinking- and we shouldn't discourage that. Keep it up AmericanSpirit. For some reason I have the urge to recommend you read up about alchemy, if you haven't already that is.

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InvisibleAmericanSpirit
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: Libertin]
    #11927272 - 01/29/10 11:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I don't mean to be defensive, & would appreciate source citing to prove I am wrong, where I am wrong, so that I can correct my mistakes.


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Offlinetony serro
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11946796 - 02/02/10 09:09 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AmericanSpirit said:
I'm not extremely well researched on the topic of psychiatry, certainly not enough to give medical advice, but I don't take back my original statement because my opinion hasn't changed - & I never claimed to be an expert in the first place.

From what little I know of ephedrine & pseudoephedrine, there is more an affinity for adrenaline, norepinephrine if not epinephrine, & less an affinity for dopamine, than with cocaine, making pseudoephedrine more likely to directly trigger adrenaline rather than doing so as an indirect consequence of dopamine release. & Since methamphetamine is made from (pseudo)ephedrine, & also because an extremely small amount of online research indicates that it is so, I consider it more probable than not that meth is the same way - meaning meth contains a component of synthetic adrenaline.

(synthetic is defined in many different ways).

I have been attempting to spot check myself on this one, & read at least one credible article from a medical journal indicating that pseudoephedrine has low affinity for dopamine & high affinity for norepinephrine. I also read an article claiming that (pseudo)ephedrine is often confused with epinephrine.

I do not deny that meth can impact serotonin, any more than I would deny that LSD impacts dopamine - LSD impacts dopamine rather dramatically in many cases, probably most trips involve a significant increase in dopamine activity. But meth is primarily a dopamine high, & LSD primarily a serotonin high. I do not consider that an ignorant conclusion. (& meth is probably toxic to serotonin, as mentioned in one of the above posts)

I think it is ok to talk about these things even if you don't have a medical degree - which I have always emphasised about myself, before you saw fit to, over and over again, in what seemed to me to be an egotistical, impulsive, and intolerant manner, point that out. But I also must acknowledge that message board posts are easy to misinterpret - & I could have simply misinterpreted all of those facepalms and the condemning reply made two seconds after I responded to your first condemning remark, while I was in the middle of editing.

I would never ask anyone, "Are you high?" It is an extremely stupid question because the answer is obviously always literally "No." I don't know anybody who uses drugs, and probably very rarely encounter any such person on the internet. But anyone who ever has, for a significant period of time - has plausibly undergone significant brain chemistry changes overtime. I know my brain chemistry is dramatically different, from what it would have been had I never taken drugs.

I also don't presume to tell you what your brain chemistry is.

I appreciate your apology, & in the future I will be a bit more careful how I word my own statements... but I will probably make many, many ill informed statements in the future, by way of casual conversation.




:facepalm: Synthetic, scientifically is defined in one definition. Maybe to you it means something different but if your going to start re-inventing words and then using nonexistant terms to prove your point there is no point arguing with you. Ephedrine is not synthetic anything. It is one molecule, adrenaline is another. Fuck, just admit your wrong, its a goddamn internet forum. I have nothing against your theory I just hate ignorant fkn people who have no source for what they are claiming is scientific fact other than what they heard from other people or fabricated in their own minds.

People who spread misinformation about shit like this need to be thought a lesson. What if someone saw your post on methamphetamine being synthetic adrenaline and reasoned that it IS adrenaline and is no more toxic to the body or mind than shooting real adrenaline? Obviously that could happen because your here posting stuff that you heard god only knows where and are accepting it as fact. Posting something like that is just as ignorant as the whole government scare on methamphetamine containing draino, or lsd making holes in your brain.


--------------------
The most thoroughly and relentlessly damned, banned, excluded, condemned, suppressed,brutalized and defamed of all Damned Things is the individual human being. The social engineers, are perpetually forcing this Damned Thing into carefully prepared blueprints and perpetually irritated that the Damned Thing will not fit into the slot assigned to it. The theologians call it a sinner and try to reform it The governor calls it a criminal and tries to punish it The psychotherapist calls it a neurotic and tries to cure it. Still, the Damned Thing will not fit into their slots. -Robert Anton Wilson

Edited by tony serro (02/02/10 09:23 AM)

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InvisibleAmericanSpirit
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: tony serro]
    #11950607 - 02/02/10 08:17 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleAmericanSpirit
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Posts: 85
Loc: Eschillion
Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11950710 - 02/02/10 08:26 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

the dictionary.com definitions of synthetic are loose enough that my original statement can be interpreted to be correct, but I would have been more accurate had I said methamphetamine (according to my own research, some cited above) seems to me to have more an immediate affinity for epinephrine receptors than cocaine, which seems to me to increase adrenaline by increasing dopamine - because dopamine can become adrenaline, but adrenaline activity can also be directly stimulated by a drug.

I don't think anyone could've possibly been fooled into taking meth as if it were harmless, nor did I say meth and adrenaline behave identically.


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InvisibleAmericanSpirit
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11950738 - 02/02/10 08:29 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

People who spread misinformation about shit like this need to be thought a lesson.

Agreed. These situations are lessons requiring thought, not verbal spankings and guilt trippings.


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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11951455 - 02/02/10 10:31 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

id like to hear more about what you do personaly

chemicaly


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InvisibleAmericanSpirit
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: notapillow]
    #11951773 - 02/02/10 11:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

lately, pipe tobacco. Virginia crumple, they call it. I went to the smoke store and asked the old man what he smoked.

I'd in my younger years (I'm only 24) kicked a cigarette habit I developed walking beaches late at night and bumbing them, something that started when I was around 12 years old. After a while, I became immune to receiving even the slightest buzz from cigarettes - mainly from smoking them while drunk or tripping.

I eased off all the good stuff a few years back, and really only experimented with most of it very briefly. In a very sketch situation.

I hallucinated indiscriminate love on purple haze in 2005, and the hallucination persisted for the rest of my life. That was my most significant drug induced memory because every other time I got high, the high wore off pretty quickly - within 24 hours even my first couple times on good acid.

But right now, it's Virginia Crumple.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Experimental research required, in the underground if not the mainstream. [Re: AmericanSpirit]
    #11951811 - 02/02/10 11:38 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:jenkem:

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