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 Society
Mmmm... pizza
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 Re: Body's are silly.  [Re: Icelander]
#11908479 - 01/26/10 09:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sounds not too unlike other brain phenomena like sleep paralysis, lucid dreaming, and IVing ketamine.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Body's are silly. [Re: Society]
#11908488 - 01/26/10 09:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's possible to explain away OBEs by saying that the brain is an excellent reality simulator and that neurons in the visual cortex have to be active in order to be perceiving anything through sight, but NDEs while the brain is inactive puzzle the hell out of me. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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 soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: Body's are silly. [Re: deCypher]
#11908493 - 01/26/10 09:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I mean, all other evidence points towards consciousness ending once the brain dies
dude..seriously.. it points to the exact opposite
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
I mean, all other evidence points towards consciousness ending once the brain dies
dude..seriously.. it points to the exact opposite
What specifically? If you modify the brain you modify personality and memory as exhibited behaviorally.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Quote:
Sounds not too unlike other brain phenomena like sleep paralysis, lucid dreaming, and IVing ketamine.
No it doesn't they experience full consciousness of their surroundings. Also they can see their bodies making even it even more extraorodinary then normal consciousness. So even if there are these so called deep centers in the brain how is this to be explained?
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
I mean, all other evidence points towards consciousness ending once the brain dies
dude..seriously.. it points to the exact opposite
Wtf are you talking about. Let's see your proof of your statement.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Quote:
If you modify the brain you modify personality and memory as exhibited behaviorally.
This being true means nothing.
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
Sounds not too unlike other brain phenomena like sleep paralysis, lucid dreaming, and IVing ketamine.
No it doesn't they experience full consciousness of their surroundings. Also they can see their bodies making even it even more extraorodinary then normal consciousness. So even if there are these so called deep centers in the brain how is this to be explained?
I've walked right up to my body and looked into my sleeping face in a lucid dream.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
If you modify the brain you modify personality and memory as exhibited behaviorally.
This being true means nothing.
Occam's Razor says the simplest explanation for this is that the mind is the same thing as the brain and any defects in the brain will therefore show up as defects in the mind. Any other theory has to postulate a distinct, immaterial entity that somehow interacts with the brain and there's lots of problems with these Cartesian dualist outlook.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: Body's are silly. [Re: Icelander]
#11908588 - 01/26/10 09:49 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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O.K but these people are in reality, not a dream. Maybe you were too
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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They don't just see their bodies they report on conversations that take place and events in the surroundings.
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Such phenomena might be explainable through quantum entanglement and psychic abilities that the mind possesses; this doesn't necessarily mean that the mind can survive without a functioning brain however.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: Body's are silly. [Re: deCypher]
#11908632 - 01/26/10 09:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Occam's Razor says the simplest explanation for this is that the mind is the same thing as the brain and any defects in the brain will therefore show up as defects in the mind.
The mind existing seperate from the brain and the fact that the brain influences the mind do not mutually exclude one another.
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Quote:
Any other theory has to postulate a distinct, immaterial entity that somehow interacts with the brain and there's lots of problems with these Cartesian dualist outlook.
hah ya the problem is they do not fathom their own existence.
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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I agree, but how can an immaterial thing such as the mind interact with a material thing such as the brain? IMO it makes more sense to say that the mind and the brain are identical in some way.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
O.K but these people are in reality, not a dream. Maybe you were too
And maybe pigs fly, but there is no evidence.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
Quote:
Any other theory has to postulate a distinct, immaterial entity that somehow interacts with the brain and there's lots of problems with these Cartesian dualist outlook.
hah ya the problem is they do not fathom their own existence.
But you do of course.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soldatheero
lastirishman
Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 2,856
Loc:
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Body's are silly. [Re: deCypher]
#11908748 - 01/26/10 10:10 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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To me the Occam's Razor reverses on this because now it seems to be the simples explaination is that it really does exist on its own it is just binded to the body somehow. The brain is completely down but the faculties of perception are up. Quantum entanglement and deep centres in the brain? Are those really the simplest of explainations at this point? I can't agree. Psychedelics made me see the brain as more of a sort of filter or funnel(?) for consciousness.
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Well, we'll all find out the truth someday. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: Body's are silly. [Re: deCypher]
#11908838 - 01/26/10 10:22 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
But you do of course.
no actually I dont. I just know what my existance is not.
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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