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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: Pandorok]
    #11878191 - 01/22/10 11:14 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

the egg.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: ivander]
    #11878732 - 01/22/10 12:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
If there is an afterlife for humans, then there's no reason why there shouldn't be one for every single other lifeform. This means that if a human dies and goes to heaven or hell, then so does every single one of the cells which comprise that human's body. But really, this doesn't make too much sense because the human is a lifeform comprised of millions of lifeforms, so there can't be a "soul" for the human because each lifeform which is contained in a human is part of that soul; but how could each lifeform which comprises a human be part of the human's soul if they each have a soul of their own? This would mean that there is some sort of "master soul" for the human, and also a bunch of other souls which belong to each cell and bacteria etc. Also, plant cells would go to the afterlife after they die.


Since all living beings are basically made of other living beings, how could there be one "soul" for any living being? :strokebeard:




Poid, I don't read your posts very often, but somehow I get the idea that you usually ask the questions that are predetermined by you to get irrational and "negative" kind of answers. Disputing about something you declared your opinion the moment before the question was conceived in mind.
So I think whatever answers you get here wont have any useful information, regarding this specific subject.


Irrational and negative kind of answers? :wtf:

There's nothing wrong about me declaring my opinion about the subject of my thread in the title of the said thread before I explained my position; I agree that any answers that I get here which are in disagreement with my position on the issue will most likely be useless, though. :thumbup:



Quote:

ivander said:
I would like to think that soul is not something definite and measurable, in such a way as we humans like to define things.


Yeah, that's cool that you like to think that reality is a certain way, especially if you can't measure or define it. :thumbup:



Quote:

ivander said:
I could present similar arguments on my take why afterlife is not bullshit...


Then do it.



Quote:

InFest said:
Do you want to believe what is true or do you want to believe what makes you feel good?


I want to know the truth about everything; even if it's initially discomforting, I can adjust myself in such a way so as to not feel discomforted by it.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineivander
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: Poid]
    #11879614 - 01/22/10 03:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Irrational and negative kind of answers? :wtf: - As I said, I do not read your post very often, but few I have read, make me have this kind of opinion.

There's nothing wrong about me declaring my opinion about the subject of my thread in the title of the said thread before I explained my position; I agree that any answers that I get here which are in disagreement with my position on the issue will most likely be useless, though. :thumbup:



I never said anything is wrong. I am just wondering why do you bother, and trying to discuss something, if you do not wish to accept the new ideas. I could make exact opposite post from this one, but really I see no point in doing so.

Quote:

Poid said:
Yeah, that's cool that you like to think that reality is a certain way, especially if you can't measure or define it. :thumbup:




And you can? You see, that is the difference here. I am not trying to measure or define things like this. Because my beliefs, do not require such kind of judgment to take place for my part. I believe in soul, and in some form of after life, and I do not need tangible evidence to support my insecurities. Nor do I need acceptance from other people.

Quote:

Poidsaid:
Then do it.



I see no reason why I need to make you to believe in the same thing I believe.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: ivander]
    #11879687 - 01/22/10 03:18 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Irrational and negative kind of answers? :wtf: - As I said, I do not read your post very often, but few I have read, make me have this kind of opinion.

There's nothing wrong about me declaring my opinion about the subject of my thread in the title of the said thread before I explained my position; I agree that any answers that I get here which are in disagreement with my position on the issue will most likely be useless, though. :thumbup:



I never said anything is wrong. I am just wondering why do you bother, and trying to discuss something, if you do not wish to accept the new ideas. I could make exact opposite post from this one, but really I see no point in doing so.


Where did I say that I would not critically assess new ideas? I didn't, that's where. :stoned:



Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Yeah, that's cool that you like to think that reality is a certain way, especially if you can't measure or define it. :thumbup:




And you can? You see, that is the difference here. I am not trying to measure or define things like this.


Then it's odd that you believe in things that you cannot define.



Quote:

ivander said:
Because my beliefs, do not require such kind of judgment to take place for my part. I believe in soul, and in some form of after life, and I do not need tangible evidence to support my insecurities. Nor do I need acceptance from other people.


Cool, I just think that's really odd. :shrug:



Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poidsaid:
Then do it.



I see no reason why I need to make you to believe in the same thing I believe.


Then why did you even post in this thread? You do know that I made this thread in PSP, which is a debate-oriented philosophy forum, right?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineInFest
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: ivander]
    #11879828 - 01/22/10 03:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Ivander, just because someone refutes something on the basis of insufficent evidence, does not make them in anyway closed minded or bias. Everyone has opinions, but not all opinions are equal.

What are you getting at in the second part of you're post? I have never had anyone define spirituality in any sort of useful way. Usually people describe it as being some vague concept, that is neither definable nor measurable. If it is neither, than how can YOU say anything about it?

The scientific method is sure not 100% foolproof, but its a hell of allot better than people making useless, unbacked-up assertions.

And don't try to pass off the argument from ignorance fallacy. Just because there are allot of questions that need answering in this universe, does not give you a right to make up/asset the answers. Ignorance therefore god (in this case afterlife).

Well, if I know something to be 100% correct (hypothetically speaking), then I have every obligation and responsitbility to make sure the truth reaches as many people as possible. Individuals esouspousing, and acting on unjustifyed belifes, leads to a soceity that does the same, and we all know how that has turned out :rolleyes:


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One Day at a Time

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: ivander]
    #11879850 - 01/22/10 03:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

InFest said:
The scientific method is sure not 100% foolproof, but its a hell of allot better than people making useless, unbacked-up assertions.




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineivander
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: Poid]
    #11881617 - 01/22/10 08:10 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Where did I say that I would not critically assess new ideas? I didn't, that's where. :stoned:



I dont see how can a debate about in (not)believing in after life can be new idea. You never thought about this before? Because you already said it is a bullshit. So I am wondering why would you debate something you set your mind on already? Knowing that the most of the responses you will get will prove useless to you, as you said.


Quote:

Poid said:
Then it's odd that you believe in things that you cannot define.



Can you define that oddness? And why do you think so?


Quote:

Poids aid:
Then why did you even post in this thread? You do know that I made this thread in PSP, which is a debate-oriented philosophy forum, right?



We are debating. Are we not? Debating does not necessarily mean I must convince someone on to something.
...As you can see I have few questions, if you think that they do not match the original point of OP, then you do not need to answer them.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: ivander]
    #11881644 - 01/22/10 08:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Where did I say that I would not critically assess new ideas? I didn't, that's where. :stoned:



I dont see how can a debate about in (not)believing in after life can be new idea. You never thought about this before? Because you already said it is a bullshit. So I am wondering why would you debate something you set your mind on already? Knowing that the most of the responses you will get will prove useless to you, as you said.


I said it's bullshit, but I was just being lazy and actually meant to say that it is most likely bullshit; I think I said that any responses which are in disagreement with my premise are most likely going to be bullshit, not that they necessarily will be.



Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Then it's odd that you believe in things that you cannot define.



Can you define that oddness? And why do you think so?


I think it's odd because I think that gullibility is odd, and anyone who can believe anything, even if there's no evidence to back anything up, is gullible, and not very intelligent to boot; it's called critical thinking! :wink:




Quote:

ivander said:
Debating does not necessarily mean I must convince someone on to something.


Yes it means that you provide a premise, and you also provide evidence and a conclusion.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineivander
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: InFest]
    #11881773 - 01/22/10 08:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

InFest said:
Ivander, just because someone refutes something on the basis of insufficent evidence, does not make them in anyway closed minded or bias. Everyone has opinions, but not all opinions are equal.

What are you getting at in the second part of you're post? I have never had anyone define spirituality in any sort of useful way. Usually people describe it as being some vague concept, that is neither definable nor measurable. If it is neither, than how can YOU say anything about it?

The scientific method is sure not 100% foolproof, but its a hell of allot better than people making useless, unbacked-up assertions.

And don't try to pass off the argument from ignorance fallacy. Just because there are allot of questions that need answering in this universe, does not give you a right to make up/asset the answers. Ignorance therefore god (in this case afterlife).

Well, if I know something to be 100% correct (hypothetically speaking), then I have every obligation and responsitbility to make sure the truth reaches as many people as possible. Individuals esouspousing, and acting on unjustifyed belifes, leads to a soceity that does the same, and we all know how that has turned out :rolleyes:



I understand what are you getting at. Let me put it this way.
Quote:

The scientific method is sure not 100% foolproof, but its a hell of allot better than people making useless, unbacked-up assertions.



Can science explain what happened before big bang? Why did it accrued? How? I agree it is not 100% fullproof, but in 100, 1000, 456893 years, it will be able to explain just about anything it can measure? I wonder if even after all that time there is no tangible way of defining the soul, and stuff alike? Why did all those people believed in it and the afterlife, and all that silly unmeasurable stuff.
(For the note: I might as well agree with what Poid said...and by saying I believe in some kind of after life does not necessarily have to mean I also believe in God as you would define it and afterlife as you would define it)

I think I was clear when I said I do not have interest in convincing anyone anything, and I don't see how I asset any answers, when I just raise more questions.
Yes we all know how that turn out, and we also know how American settlers had obligation to (hypothetically speaking) teach natives about their ~100% correct ideas about god and religion, among other stuff.


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: ivander]
    #11881796 - 01/22/10 08:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
Why did all those people believed in it and the afterlife, and all that silly unmeasurable stuff.


Logical fallacy--appeal to popularity. :yawn:



Quote:

ivander said:
I think I was clear when I said I do not have interest in convincing anyone anything...


If that is your intention, then don't post in this forum. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineivander
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: Poid]
    #11881846 - 01/22/10 08:50 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Logical fallacy--appeal to popularity. :yawn:



Is that a science fact?
Quote:

Poid said:
If that is your intention, then don't post in this forum. :shrug:



My intention is to found out why do you ask for more affirmations of your opinion, about the things you wrote in the OP, about soul and afterlife in specific, when even you can not prove the opposite. By the way you said debate has to have premise, evidence and conclusion.
Alos in the OP you made some assumptions, are you 100% sure your assumptions are correct?


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: ivander]
    #11881862 - 01/22/10 08:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Logical fallacy--appeal to popularity. :yawn:



Is that a science fact?


If you consider philosophy and critical thinking a science, then yes. :shrug:



Quote:

ivander said:
Alos in the OP you made some assumptions, are you 100% sure your assumptions are correct?


No, but nobody has done a good job refuting my assumptions, so I'm at least more than 50% that I'm correct. :shrug2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineivander
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: Poid]
    #11881999 - 01/22/10 09:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
If you consider philosophy and critical thinking a science, then yes. :shrug:



I do not. But if you say yes, it seems to me like you do.
Quote:

Poid said:
No, but nobody has done a good job refuting my assumptions, so I'm at least more than 50% that I'm correct. :shrug2:



Reading the other posts I get the impression, that you were 100% convinced.
Also, critical thinking<>belief. That is why they call it a belief, because you do not know, you believe.

:peace:


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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InvisibleTropism
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: ivander]
    #11882068 - 01/22/10 09:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, well, Santa never came. :shrug:

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Offlineivander
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: Tropism]
    #11882172 - 01/22/10 09:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Neither did Jesus.  Response on the same lvl :shrug:


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: ivander]
    #11882186 - 01/22/10 09:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
If you consider philosophy and critical thinking a science, then yes. :shrug:



I do not. But if you say yes, it seems to me like you do.


:lol:, you do know that science is a type of philosophy, right???



Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
No, but nobody has done a good job refuting my assumptions, so I'm at least more than 50% that I'm correct. :shrug2:



Reading the other posts I get the impression, that you were 100% convinced.
Also, critical thinking<>belief. That is why they call it a belief, because you do not know, you believe.

:peace:


I hardly believe in jack shit.  :poopontoast:



Quote:

ivander said:
Neither did Jesus.  Response on the same lvl :shrug:


What if Christ never even existed? What then? :haha:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineivander
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: Poid]
    #11882311 - 01/22/10 09:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
you do know that science is a type of philosophy, right???



So where lies your tangible evidence to support your claims, in philosophy? Once again I got the impression you are trying to prove something with science that does not include philosophy in that sense.
I can agree that science is a kind of philosophy, but I thought we were talking about science that has no place for unmeasurable type of evidence.

Quote:

Poid said:
I hardly believe in jack shit.  :poopontoast:



You cloud also said that you do not believe in things that you are saying.

Quote:

Poid said:
What if Christ never even existed? What then? :haha:



And what if Santa never existed. Between those two, I thought that generally speaking, Santa was considered a fairytale, while Jesus was proven to be historical figure. History is a science also, is it not?


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: Poid]
    #11882355 - 01/22/10 10:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I hardly believe in jack shit.  :poopontoast:



You cloud also said that you do not believe in things that you are saying.


:rainbowcloud:



Quote:

ivander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
What if Christ never even existed? What then? :haha:



And what if Santa never existed. Between those two, I thought that generally speaking, Santa was considered a fairytale, while Jesus was proven to be historical figure. History is a science also, is it not?


Please provide the historical evidence of Jesus' factual existence. :etjesus:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinesicknesslives
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: livenotonevil]
    #11883098 - 01/23/10 12:00 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

livenotonevil said:
The universe is shaped exactly like the earth, if you go in one deriction you will end up where you where.





well, the universe is constantly expanding, and all galaxies are being pulled apart, because of the vacuum..

but, i grew up pentecostal christian, and now im agnostic.  IF we have a soul, it would be the conscious part of our brain. animals wouldnt have a soul because they dont choose between good and evil. thats the way it was explained to me in sunday school. but now, i dont believe in anything religious of the afterlife. i think, when you die, yo die. thats it.

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Offlineivander
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Re: My take on why the afterlife is bullshit... [Re: Poid]
    #11883912 - 01/23/10 06:04 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

LMAO. I usually do not provide links to Wikipedia, as some do.
Pls, I tried to ask you some things, but so far you did not give me any answers, so I see no more reason why I should bother anymore.

:peace:  to you


--------------------
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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by fireworks_god
* If they found definitive proof of an afterlife....
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Revelation 6,448 68 08/22/02 07:13 PM
by Danimal

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