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OfflineAstrum
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Psychedelics and Schizophrenia
    #11872062 - 01/21/10 12:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

So, my uncle has schizophrenia of a mild-moderate case. According to my sources I have a 2% chance of having schizophrenia. I have never show any early warning signs of it what so ever. Health wise I'm perfectly healthy, if anything my brain seems to be bale to function better than most other peoples (I was able to calculus 1 and 2 in about 7 weeks and there each suppose to take a year). I took an IQ test online because some people said I'd get off the charts on it, I don't think it's accurate but it told me I had an IQ above 150. But anyway, I've smoked weed a couple of times before and never experienced any paranoia or anything pleasurable. Recently a friend of mine wants to do shrooms soon and I just wanted to see how bad of an idea it would be to do it with him. I became really fascinated with the neuroscience of it so I decided I wanted take a trip.

Is it a good idea? From some of the reading I've done, I should be fine but I thought that I should get a few other opinions on this.


--------------------
"True, we love life, not because we are used to living, but because we are used to loving. There is always some madness in love, but there is also always some reason in madness."~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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Offlinejustablip
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Astrum]
    #11872247 - 01/21/10 01:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

go for it man


--------------------
[quote]Little angel, go away...
Come again some other day...
Devil has my ear today...
I'll never hear a word you say...
He Promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind...
Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
I'm so Weak and powerless over you...
[/quote] -MJK

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OfflineAstrum
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: justablip]
    #11872266 - 01/21/10 01:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You think I'll be fine? My gut tells me there shouldn't be a problem, if I hadn't know what psychedelics have done to some people (think Syd Barrett) with schizophrenia I wound't have even bothered to post this.


--------------------
"True, we love life, not because we are used to living, but because we are used to loving. There is always some madness in love, but there is also always some reason in madness."~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflinePositiv
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Astrum]
    #11872446 - 01/21/10 01:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

well if you think about Schizophrenia all the time and worry about it, you more likely will get it then if you dont think about it at all, so if you continue with this way of thinking and do shrooms, i will say you will make your self be live that you might have it, then you have a problem, so dont over think it and you`ll be just fine :smile:

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OfflineElectric Rainbow
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Astrum]
    #11872594 - 01/21/10 01:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe you're the best one to answer your own question. Let me rephrase it:
do i want to take the risk to live the life of my uncle, knowing that LSD is capable of triggering schizophrenia in predestined people -of which i have a higher than normal chance- that had never shown any sign of being so?

No one on this board will be able to tell you if it's safe or not, it's just a big question mark. You'll have to make a decision on your own. Choose wisely!


--------------------

Edited by Electric Rainbow (01/21/10 01:49 PM)

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OfflineAstrum
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Electric Rainbow]
    #11872681 - 01/21/10 01:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well, if I did decide to go through with it, I would imagine that I should start off with a low dose at first, is there anything else that can lower my chances?

And actully, my uncle doesn't even really need to take meds for it, as I;ve already said, it's not a bad case, he can still work and live on his own, it's just that his thinking is a little convoluted without his meds. Maybe he's a little paranoid but I don't think he's ever had hallucinations before.


--------------------
"True, we love life, not because we are used to living, but because we are used to loving. There is always some madness in love, but there is also always some reason in madness."~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineLizardman
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Positiv]
    #11872723 - 01/21/10 02:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Positiv said:
well if you think about Schizophrenia all the time and worry about it, you more likely will get it then if you dont think about it at all, so if you continue with this way of thinking and do shrooms, i will say you will make your self be live that you might have it, then you have a problem, so dont over think it and you`ll be just fine :smile:




No, that's just plain wrong. You are either predisposed towards schizophrenia or you aren't.
If you worry a lot about it, you're more likely to get into the "oh my god i'll never come down" thought loop, but that's a condition you can quickly snap out of once you realize it's utter BS.
Schizos almost never realize there's something wrong with them.

OP, it sounds as if you went to a shrink to check for possible signs of psychosis?
If you show no signs of being in a prodromal phase (=on the verge of a possible psychotic episode that would break out if something like a strong trip pushes you over the edge), tripping once should be fine.
Dropping acid or shrooming every other weekend might be another thing, but as a one time experiment, i see no problems.

Now, if you'd worry all the time, i'd recommend waiting until you have sorted this out because odds of a bad trip would be increased, but you seem to be at the right point between the necessary respect and too much caution.

In the end, it's all up to you, of course- but from all you've written, i see no increased risks here.

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OfflineOttoGenerated
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Electric Rainbow]
    #11872943 - 01/21/10 02:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Your age is important to know in making this decision. If you're over the age of 21 and have never had any symptoms of schizophrenia, you will very likely never be schizophrenic.

Just my thoughts, take them with a grain of salt:

You wouldn't be asking if you didn't think it was a bad idea for you to take them. You seem to think that there is a high risk of developing schizophrenia, but are asking this community for input to the contrary, possibly to aid in convincing yourself to take the mushrooms.

This is a drug forum, so of course you expect to get responses which, for the most part, can be boiled down to, "Take drugs."  Which leaves me wondering how you are going to respond to our responses. I see two possible outcomes. One, we adequately encourage you to take drugs and you thank us for reassuring you that you have nothing to fear in schizophrenia. Two, we discourage you from taking drugs and you discount us for instilling fear of schizophrenia in you (not a very constructive or friendly thing to do). Either way you're probably just going to take the mushrooms anyway.

(This is the part you should take least seriously, as it is based mostly on personal experience) I see in you what I've seen in myself, and if I am correct in making such a comparison, then I must say that you seem to be using intellectualization as a coping strategy to hide your recreational interest in (or worse, abusive relationship to) drugs from either yourself or us (the shroomery community).

MOST IMPORTANTLY:
Don't worry about it. If you're schizophrenic and you take mushrooms your symptoms will worsen, new symptoms will become apparent, and delusional or obsessive thought will increase an indeterminate amount for an indeterminate amount of time. However, you will eventually learn all kinds of new ways to cope with your psychosis and you'll be right back to feeling something like "normal" in a matter of time. For me, it's a few days and some mildly disturbing delusions. Don't let your fear of this disease control your life. Do what you will do and deal with the consequences, which, in this case, range from mild psychological discomfort to homelessness and death.

Hope I've provided you with some useful information. Make the best decision you are able to.

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OfflineOttoGenerated
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Lizardman]
    #11872959 - 01/21/10 02:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lizardman said:
Quote:

Positiv said:
well if you think about Schizophrenia all the time and worry about it, you more likely will get it then if you dont think about it at all, so if you continue with this way of thinking and do shrooms, i will say you will make your self be live that you might have it, then you have a problem, so dont over think it and you`ll be just fine :smile:




No, that's just plain wrong. You are either predisposed towards schizophrenia or you aren't.
If you worry a lot about it, you're more likely to get into the "oh my god i'll never come down" thought loop, but that's a condition you can quickly snap out of once you realize it's utter BS.
Schizos almost never realize there's something wrong with them.

OP, it sounds as if you went to a shrink to check for possible signs of psychosis?
If you show no signs of being in a prodromal phase (=on the verge of a possible psychotic episode that would break out if something like a strong trip pushes you over the edge), tripping once should be fine.
Dropping acid or shrooming every other weekend might be another thing, but as a one time experiment, i see no problems.

Now, if you'd worry all the time, i'd recommend waiting until you have sorted this out because odds of a bad trip would be increased, but you seem to be at the right point between the necessary respect and too much caution.

In the end, it's all up to you, of course- but from all you've written, i see no increased risks here.




This.

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OfflineAstrum
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: OttoGenerated]
    #11877494 - 01/22/10 08:56 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OttoGenerated said:
Your age is important to know in making this decision. If you're over the age of 21 and have never had any symptoms of schizophrenia, you will very likely never be schizophrenic.

Just my thoughts, take them with a grain of salt:

You wouldn't be asking if you didn't think it was a bad idea for you to take them. You seem to think that there is a high risk of developing schizophrenia, but are asking this community for input to the contrary, possibly to aid in convincing yourself to take the mushrooms.

This is a drug forum, so of course you expect to get responses which, for the most part, can be boiled down to, "Take drugs."  Which leaves me wondering how you are going to respond to our responses. I see two possible outcomes. One, we adequately encourage you to take drugs and you thank us for reassuring you that you have nothing to fear in schizophrenia. Two, we discourage you from taking drugs and you discount us for instilling fear of schizophrenia in you (not a very constructive or friendly thing to do). Either way you're probably just going to take the mushrooms anyway.

(This is the part you should take least seriously, as it is based mostly on personal experience) I see in you what I've seen in myself, and if I am correct in making such a comparison, then I must say that you seem to be using intellectualization as a coping strategy to hide your recreational interest in (or worse, abusive relationship to) drugs from either yourself or us (the shroomery community).

MOST IMPORTANTLY:
Don't worry about it. If you're schizophrenic and you take mushrooms your symptoms will worsen, new symptoms will become apparent, and delusional or obsessive thought will increase an indeterminate amount for an indeterminate amount of time. However, you will eventually learn all kinds of new ways to cope with your psychosis and you'll be right back to feeling something like "normal" in a matter of time. For me, it's a few days and some mildly disturbing delusions. Don't let your fear of this disease control your life. Do what you will do and deal with the consequences, which, in this case, range from mild psychological discomfort to homelessness and death.

Hope I've provided you with some useful information. Make the best decision you are able to.




I think you got part of it right.

My intentions on doing any drugs, which I will never (hopefully) become a regular drug user, are as followed: I seem to get more creative while on weed so I though I might benefit from doing real psychedelic drugs, I've always been interested in the science of it and I will admit that I do have some recreational interests in them.

I wouldn't put down a "spiritual experience" as one of my reasons, a year of learning how our universe works (Neuroscience, cosmology, physics biology) have made me realize that I'm just a bi product of a brain and really, there most likely is no soul therefore a "spiritual experience" isn't spiritual at all, it's really just chemicals blocking  neurotransmitters which changes my perception.

And one last thing, would you advise against being high while around my parents, the few times that I've smoked I came home and was fine but I wonder if I would act strange if I smoked more (I never smoked a lot at one time).


--------------------
"True, we love life, not because we are used to living, but because we are used to loving. There is always some madness in love, but there is also always some reason in madness."~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineLizardman
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Astrum]
    #11877596 - 01/22/10 09:25 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Astrum said:
And one last thing, would you advise against being high while around my parents, the few times that I've smoked I came home and was fine but I wonder if I would act strange if I smoked more (I never smoked a lot at one time).




Don't trip around your parents until they are an aging hippie couple who will offer to tripsit for you.
Sleep over at a friend's house or make a similar arrangement.
Be sure to be in a comfortable environment where you don't get freaked out and do not have to worry whether someone realizes you're tripping.
A place where you are able to let go.
Many people act like complete retards on shrooms, you should be in a place and with someone where this doesn't have to bother you.

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Offlineasagao
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Lizardman]
    #11877753 - 01/22/10 09:54 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

if you're younger it won't kill you to wait till your mid-20s to let your brain stop developing before you get into psychs.  ultimately it's up to you, but if you're apprehensive about it then just remember you've got a lifetime of use to go and waiting a few more years may be safer.

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OfflineAstrum
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Lizardman]
    #11877859 - 01/22/10 10:13 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lizardman said:
Quote:

Astrum said:
And one last thing, would you advise against being high while around my parents, the few times that I've smoked I came home and was fine but I wonder if I would act strange if I smoked more (I never smoked a lot at one time).




Don't trip around your parents until they are an aging hippie couple who will offer to tripsit for you.
Sleep over at a friend's house or make a similar arrangement.
Be sure to be in a comfortable environment where you don't get freaked out and do not have to worry whether someone realizes you're tripping.
A place where you are able to let go.
Many people act like complete retards on shrooms, you should be in a place and with someone where this doesn't have to bother you.




Not tripping, I meant if I smoked before I came home from school.


--------------------
"True, we love life, not because we are used to living, but because we are used to loving. There is always some madness in love, but there is also always some reason in madness."~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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InvisibleDynoo
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Astrum]
    #11877944 - 01/22/10 10:27 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Schizophrenia runs in my family, too. My great grandma might have had it, but it was so long ago that doctors didn't know what it was. After my great aunt died, my family found medical records saying she had it. My aunt has it. My cousin has it kind of bad. Everyone expected me to have it since my cousin and I have the same interests and we get a long well. I took many trips and I'm fine.

My boyfriend has some chemical imbalances and was in and out of a few institutions for a period of his life. He did a lot more psychedelics than me and he's perfectly fine too. DO IT! PEER PRESSURE! :crazy2: :dizope:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: OttoGenerated]
    #11878273 - 01/22/10 11:26 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OttoGenerated said:
Don't worry about it. If you're schizophrenic and you take mushrooms your symptoms will worsen, new symptoms will become apparent, and delusional or obsessive thought will increase an indeterminate amount for an indeterminate amount of time. However, you will eventually learn all kinds of new ways to cope with your psychosis and you'll be right back to feeling something like "normal" in a matter of time.




This is not necessarily true; it's possible that OP could have a psychotic break from doing psychedelics and spend the rest of his life tormented by paranoia and delusional thoughts.  This is serious business and I wouldn't just flippantly "not worry about it".


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineLizardman
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Astrum]
    #11878315 - 01/22/10 11:35 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Astrum said:
Quote:

Lizardman said:
Quote:

Astrum said:
And one last thing, would you advise against being high while around my parents, the few times that I've smoked I came home and was fine but I wonder if I would act strange if I smoked more (I never smoked a lot at one time).




Don't trip around your parents until they are an aging hippie couple who will offer to tripsit for you.
Sleep over at a friend's house or make a similar arrangement.
Be sure to be in a comfortable environment where you don't get freaked out and do not have to worry whether someone realizes you're tripping.
A place where you are able to let go.
Many people act like complete retards on shrooms, you should be in a place and with someone where this doesn't have to bother you.




Not tripping, I meant if I smoked before I came home from school.




Oh, alright.
It really depends on the person. I rarely have problems passing as sober, even when i'm completely blazed.
People usually have to know me very well to notice that i'm high.
But this can be totally different depending on the individual smoker, the observer, the amount smoked, tolerance...it's absolutely possible to pull it off, but it could backfire in a few cases.
I'd just try it, but i never used to care whether my parents noticed that i'm high, so take that with a grain of salt.
Or get some sunglasses.

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OfflineOttoGenerated
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: deCypher]
    #11880346 - 01/22/10 04:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

OttoGenerated said:
Don't worry about it. If you're schizophrenic and you take mushrooms your symptoms will worsen, new symptoms will become apparent, and delusional or obsessive thought will increase an indeterminate amount for an indeterminate amount of time. However, you will eventually learn all kinds of new ways to cope with your psychosis and you'll be right back to feeling something like "normal" in a matter of time.




This is not necessarily true; it's possible that OP could have a psychotic break from doing psychedelics and spend the rest of his life tormented by paranoia and delusional thoughts.  This is serious business and I wouldn't just flippantly "not worry about it".




I wasn't being flippant, I was responding to my perception of the OPs intentions (to gain reassurance from us). I did my best to balance what I thought to be important advice (not living in fear of mental illness) with the very real consequences of OPs actions (ranging from mild psychological discomfort to homelessness and death).

I tried my best to remain neutral on the matter, and I think that's what you're reading as me being flippant.

Anyway, I'm very glad that you pointed this out. It helps to clarify what I was saying.

To be brief: I'm attempting to discourage OP from taking psychedelics because it seems to me that OP knows that they have the potential of inflicting serious psychological harm which could last days, weeks, months, or an entire lifetime.

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InvisibleMr Cyan
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Astrum]
    #11880430 - 01/22/10 05:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Astrum said:

I wouldn't put down a "spiritual experience" as one of my reasons, a year of learning how our universe works (Neuroscience, cosmology, physics biology) have made me realize that I'm just a bi product of a brain and really, there most likely is no soul therefore a "spiritual experience" isn't spiritual at all, it's really just chemicals blocking  neurotransmitters which changes my perception.





The mushrooms will show you "truth", but first you'll have to let go of materialism as a philosophy.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Astrum]
    #11880485 - 01/22/10 05:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Most cases of drug triggered schizophrenia came from marijuana, actually. 

Don't quote me on the figures, as it's from memory, but of the people who have schizophrenia, only a very small percentage of them had it triggered by drugs.  Of the people who have schizophrenia triggered by drugs, something like 40% were from marijuana, and only like 2% were triggered by LSD.  Article didn't mention mushrooms though.  I read the article several years ago, so the figures might be different now.

My guess is that if you smoked some pot and didn't trigger schizophrenia, you probably don't have (dormant) schizophrenia.

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Offlinejwohl
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Astrum]
    #11880868 - 01/22/10 06:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

According to National Geographic on their show "Inside: LSD", they claim that the people who develope schizophrenia because of psychedelics will develope schizophrenia anyway without psychedelics. It just speeds up the process of getting it.


--------------------
"Through my LSD experience and my new picture of reality, I became aware of the wonder of creation, the magnificence of nature and of the animal and plant kingdom. I became very sensitive to what will happen to all this and all of us."
-Dr. Albert Hofmann

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: jwohl]
    #11880873 - 01/22/10 06:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jwohl said:
According to National Geographic on their show "Inside: LSD", they claim that the people who develope schizophrenia because of psychedelics will develope schizophrenia anyway without psychedelics. It just speeds up the process of getting it.




How would you prove this?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineLizardman
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: deCypher]
    #11881230 - 01/22/10 06:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Cyan said:
Quote:

Astrum said:

I wouldn't put down a "spiritual experience" as one of my reasons, a year of learning how our universe works (Neuroscience, cosmology, physics biology) have made me realize that I'm just a bi product of a brain and really, there most likely is no soul therefore a "spiritual experience" isn't spiritual at all, it's really just chemicals blocking  neurotransmitters which changes my perception.





The mushrooms will show you "truth", but first you'll have to let go of materialism as a philosophy.




So materialism and psychedelics don't work together? Why would that be?
Scientific materialism is just as appropriate a framework for psychedelic experiences as Buddhism or Pantheism.
Stop getting hung up on your believes, they are not a prerequisite for tripping, or for intellectual and "spiritual" growth from it.
If you can't wrap your head around a trip from a materialist point of view, it's your fault, not the philosophy's.
In fact, all that people view as bleak and terrifying about scientific materialism just withers away after experiencing ego loss for the first time.
The perspective of just disintegrating into random atoms after death instead of going to heaven or being reincarnated in the traditional sense ultimately loses it's terror once you have gone through a simulation of it and enjoyed it, and after you have witnessed how magnificent the universe can be even without the concept of a creator attached to it.
I always had the feeling that i don't need traditional spiritual concepts; taking psychedelics has stomped the last remnants of clinging to such clutches for transcendence into the ground, has helped me to finally articulate what i have believed throughout my live, but could never fully express.
I'm not saying that both traditional religious believes and their postmodern, patchworky equivalents are false; in fact, i don't have any opinion towards them because i just don't care.
They are just entirely unnecessary.
Who needs an afterlife after seeing the true beauty of this world?

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

jwohl said:
According to National Geographic on their show "Inside: LSD", they claim that the people who develope schizophrenia because of psychedelics will develope schizophrenia anyway without psychedelics. It just speeds up the process of getting it.




How would you prove this?




It's hard to prove, as it's still difficult to safely identify markers for psychosis, both genetic and behavorial ones.
But common consensus nowadays seems to be that people who develop schizophrenia have been vulnerable to it all along and just need something to push them over the edge.
Undoubtedly, powerful schizophrenics, with their ability to destroy all safeguards of the ego for the time of their duration, are one of those things.

Moreover, there have been studies with thousands of LSD users which showed that the percentage of schizophrenics isn't higher than in the overall population.
Interestingly, marijuana users do happen to be schizophrenic more often than non-users - the possibility that there is at least a co-morbidity between marijuana use and psychosis, but not between LSD use and psychosis, that potential schizophrenics have a higher tendency to develop a weed habit, but not to use acid, is remarkable.
The idea that the whole vulnerability model is wrong or that, for some other reasons, marijuana can lead to psychosis easier than LSD is just frightening, though.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Lizardman]
    #11881252 - 01/22/10 07:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lizardman said:
But common consensus nowadays seems to be that people who develop schizophrenia have been vulnerable to it all along and just need something to push them over the edge.




I'm just curious what basis there is for this consensus.

Quote:

Lizardman said:
Interestingly, marijuana users do happen to be schizophrenic more often than non-users - the possibility that there is at least a co-morbidity between marijuana use and psychosis, but not between LSD use and psychosis, that potential schizophrenics have a higher tendency to develop a weed habit, but not to use acid, is remarkable.




Yeah, definitely an interesting fact.


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: deCypher]
    #11881268 - 01/22/10 07:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I'd guess that since it's much easier to get find pot than it is to find acid, most people who have dormant schizophrenia will try marijuana and trigger it before they even had a chance to try acid.

If it was harder to get pot, and easier to get acid, I'd guess those statistics would change. 

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OfflineLizardman
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: BothHands]
    #11881322 - 01/22/10 07:16 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
I'd guess that since it's much easier to get find pot than it is to find acid, most people who have dormant schizophrenia will try marijuana and trigger it before they even had a chance to try acid.

If it was harder to get pot, and easier to get acid, I'd guess those statistics would change. 




These statistics refer to people who use the specific substance, not to the population as a whole.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Lizardman]
    #11881329 - 01/22/10 07:18 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry, I'm extremely stoned.  I'll read it again in an hour or so. :grin:

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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: BothHands]
    #11881413 - 01/22/10 07:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Sorry, I'm extremely stoned.  I'll read it again in an hour or so. :grin:




No problem, i'm extremely drunk...:grin:

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: BothHands]
    #11881481 - 01/22/10 07:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I've read a lot of the scientific literature on hallucinogens and there is very little research on the topic. A lot of it is echo chamber type stuff, a couple studies are published, this is mentioned in reviews and then the modern reviews reference the original studies and the older reviews and then you've got like 5 references to back up the claim.

I think the first study on it kind of made a big impact because the results were so striking, it looked at something like 5000 people who were given LSD in the 50's and 60's and found only one person developed schizophrenia, this person had a twin brother who was schizophrenic.

The consensus in the papers is that it is most likely only people 'predisposed' to schizophrenia who have schizophrenia triggered by psychedelics. But this is just opinion, speculation and no one knows for sure.

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Lizardman]
    #11881489 - 01/22/10 07:44 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lizardman said:
Quote:

BothHands said:
Sorry, I'm extremely stoned.  I'll read it again in an hour or so. :grin:




No problem, i'm extremely drunk...:grin:





This disclaimer should be in every thread that asks for medical and psychological advice :smile:

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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: Freedom]
    #11881499 - 01/22/10 07:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

*hic* what'sh wrong with my advishe?! :drunk: :crankey:


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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: deCypher]
    #11881590 - 01/22/10 08:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

you took a year of science courses and found there is nothing more to us than that we're gene driven organic machines? thats weird, i took a few years of science courses and found the exact opposite.

i've found there to be two very distinct types of people. people that think we're some really strange accident on this planet, and others that think we and all of this is something more. this distinction is more fundamental than what we've been taught from a very young age. i was raised by godless scientists, and pretty much was the same until psychedelics, philosophy, and science came into my life.

if you don't happen to fall into the latter category, don't worry about having a 'spiritual' trip. if you do, you're in for a hell of a surprise.


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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: dummy]
    #11881606 - 01/22/10 08:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

We are gene-driven organic machines... this is not mutually exclusive with spirituality.


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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: deCypher]
    #11881634 - 01/22/10 08:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

...there is nothing more to us than that we're gene driven organic machines...

our physical bodies seem to be gene driven organic machines.


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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: dummy]
    #11881649 - 01/22/10 08:16 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Agreed, it's always bothersome when people act as if the mental/spiritual portion of reality doesn't exist.


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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: deCypher]
    #11881715 - 01/22/10 08:27 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

i don't think they can comprehend it, or something. i really don't know why it is, but they aren't convinced. i don't blame them though, it seems they just can't experience it. i've talked to many many people about this, from bums in the park to physics phd's. it doesn't matter what walk of life you're from, what you've done, or where you're from. some people can see it, some people can't. because of this it's really no use to argue about it. but after all is said and done, there is no solid evidence for either argument.


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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: dummy]
    #11881734 - 01/22/10 08:30 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Some are Experienced... others not.  Some perhaps were Experienced but rationalized it away with excessive skepticism.  Or perhaps some think Delusion is really Experience.  Who knows?



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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: deCypher]
    #11881742 - 01/22/10 08:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

that could be it. who knows. it was definitely shocking when i first realized what was up.


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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: dummy]
    #11881785 - 01/22/10 08:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I have used lots of psychedelics.... and I have been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder.

I am not crazy, though.

You say anything to the doctors about interacting with something most people can't see and they say you're crazy.

I am a normal guy. I am not confused, my speech is fine. Nobody would ever think I was crazy in real life, but the psych does.

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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: morrowasted]
    #11881790 - 01/22/10 08:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

We're all crazy here friend.


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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: deCypher]
    #11881829 - 01/22/10 08:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

i'm pretty careful about who i talk to this sort of thing about.


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Re: Psychedelics and Schizophrenia [Re: dummy]
    #11881923 - 01/22/10 09:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dummy said:

i've found there to be two very distinct types of people. people that think we're some really strange accident on this planet, and others that think we and all of this is something more.




The dissonance between these two is my home  :headbang:

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