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Anonymous #1
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weaponry
#11807318 - 01/11/10 11:17 AM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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okay, so i want to buy an ak47 soon, but one must wonder..how do i get one legally? and if i was to buy it illicitly, can i make it legal?
oh, and how do i acquire a gun license? Ive been meaning to get one.

the reason being is that these two tweeker chicks want to kill me for 'stalking' them, which is bullshit because theyve been smoking speed for weeks
the stalking part came into play when i was cleaning my windows and they thought i was watching them play
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Mchaggis
cawbstawmper




Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 5,307
Loc: 'Bama Ghost Country
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ak-47's are one hundred percent legal in the US as long as they're semi-automatic.
Good luck finding one that's full-auto.
You don't need a license for a long gun, just for pistols.
Unless you live in Canada or the UK and then good luck getting a gun period amirite?
--------------------
 I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body
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Anonymous #1
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ahh, well thank you. i just wanted to know if i can get an ak47 for home defense, i can probably find a full-auto no problem, i know a few people...but then again who wants to swiss cheese their own house?
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simbad42
wanna see big boom!!!



Registered: 07/21/09
Posts: 4,231
Loc:
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the full auto will make it illegal but there is nothing wrong with the 7.62 round
-------------------- amu (q)and (a) VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV for i am a sinner in the hands of an angry god, bloody mary blessed are you among cocktails, i pray for my death which i hope is soon. amen
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
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Quote:
Anonymous said: ahh, well thank you. i just wanted to know if i can get an ak47 for home defense, i can probably find a full-auto no problem, i know a few people...but then again who wants to swiss cheese their own house?
an ak is a horrible choice for Home Defense. If you shoot somone, chances are it goes through their body, continues to travel into and through your wall, and possibly outside into someone else, into your neighbors house, etc. Plus, in a time of stress, you would have to spot on in aim, and, as someone asking these questions, I would guess that you probably aren't the best shot yet.
Best choice for home defense hands down is a pump action shotgun...the sound of shucking a shell into the chamber is scary enough, and as far as aim is concerned, if your close, you hit them, lastly, no chance of it going through the wall and into someone else...i recommend a mossberg 500 or remington 590...
peace
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Anonymous #2
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i feel your pain tweeker chicks have a screw lose doesnt matter if they been smokin for weeks or not idk man they nuts better get a bowie blade too
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Mchaggis
cawbstawmper




Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 5,307
Loc: 'Bama Ghost Country
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#11825903 - 01/13/10 10:55 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree, a decent .38 special would also do the trick, and a 12 gauge pump or .38 special revolver will each only cost around 200 bucks. I think the cheapest AK-47 would be around 400 dollars if I'm not mistaken.
--------------------
 I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
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Quote:
Mchaggis said: I agree, a decent .38 special would also do the trick, and a 12 gauge pump or .38 special revolver will each only cost around 200 bucks. I think the cheapest AK-47 would be around 400 dollars if I'm not mistaken.
you are right, and if going for an AK anyways, i would lean towards the SKS, same shell, much cheaper, more reliable, and more accurate, just don't have the popularity that an AK has...I had an AK, it was a piece of shit, rattles a lot, all loose, fired good, never really had a prob with it, but just felt like crap in general. I got rid of it, and bought a yugoslavian SKS and a shitton of ammo for the same price, and i like it much much more...
And yes, handguns are also a good choice for home defense, as they don't go through walls readily, but again, you are going down to being a good aim...the king is still the 12ga pump...

Thats the mossberg 500 persuader up top, and a yugo SKS on the bottom in original military configuration...it is possible to put a synthetic stock, remove the beyonet and grenade launcher attachment, and put on removable banana mags, but i like it as it is...
peace
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#11826432 - 01/14/10 12:29 AM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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sks... classic redneck weaponry
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Heffy
BrauMeister



Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
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I went this holiday to the states. According to the gun shop man we didn't need any license other than a drivers license, for long guns.
I would agree with the recommendation for a shotgun. It is probably the best gun for home defense.
Still, give me a nice blade for home defense over any gun.
-------------------- I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
Edited by Heffy (01/14/10 08:01 AM)
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
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Quote:
wowitch17 said: sks... classic redneck weaponry
yeah, and your point?
Its fun as fuck to shoot, ammo is pretty cheap (well, used to be, harder to find the military surplus stuff now). I got the gun itself brand new, never fired, unpacked from the original box and cosmoline for $120...if having it somehow makes me a redneck, then brand me as one of the very rare and quite possibly the first redneck software engineer in existance.
peace
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Mchaggis
cawbstawmper




Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 5,307
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#11830221 - 01/14/10 05:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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not to mention all the accessories available for SKS's floating around.
that 7.62 round is better for fighting cops/zombies/dinosaurs than for home invasion, IMO.
As previously mentioned one must consider over penetration.
But i guess they DO make frangible/expanding ammunition in 7.62x39
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Enlightenedwon
Game Over



Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,513
Loc: New York
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#11830243 - 01/14/10 06:00 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah a shotgun is much better for close quarters battle, try to find one that's semi auto though it's a pain to manually chamber every round.
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QuantumMeltdown
Space Monkey



Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 4,962
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
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ar15 for the win. get a colt. new in box will run you around 1200 and you will never be disappointed. You will probably get addicted to shooting the thing trust me i know i own one. oh and be prepared to spend money on ammo its not cheap anymore for any round but .22lr but the gun is useless without a shit ton of it on stockpile. I have 2k rounds and feel like I need more.
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#11837425 - 01/15/10 07:20 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
supra said:
Quote:
wowitch17 said: sks... classic redneck weaponry
yeah, and your point?
Its fun as fuck to shoot, ammo is pretty cheap (well, used to be, harder to find the military surplus stuff now). I got the gun itself brand new, never fired, unpacked from the original box and cosmoline for $120...if having it somehow makes me a redneck, then brand me as one of the very rare and quite possibly the first redneck software engineer in existance.
peace
whats your point? do you take offense to the term redneck? haha
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Quote:
wowitch17 said:
Quote:
supra said:
Quote:
wowitch17 said: sks... classic redneck weaponry
yeah, and your point?
Its fun as fuck to shoot, ammo is pretty cheap (well, used to be, harder to find the military surplus stuff now). I got the gun itself brand new, never fired, unpacked from the original box and cosmoline for $120...if having it somehow makes me a redneck, then brand me as one of the very rare and quite possibly the first redneck software engineer in existance.
peace
whats your point? do you take offense to the term redneck? haha
do blacks take offense to the word nigger? How about mexicans taking offense to being called spics or wetbacks? Do jewish people like being called kikes?
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#11838729 - 01/15/10 11:44 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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around here most people dont take offense to that term. sorry for going off topic, I meant no ill will towards the sks its a great weapon.
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Enlightenedwon
Game Over



Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 1,513
Loc: New York
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I got a muzzle loader for turkey hunting would be fun to use against some invading tweakers plus so many uses for black powder
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
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Loc: TEXAS
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Quote:
Enlightenedwon said: I got a muzzle loader for turkey hunting would be fun to use against some invading tweakers plus so many uses for black powder
lmao...good luck getting it loaded in time..."hang on guys, let me measure my powder, put wad and ball on top, pop into barrel, push in, tap down, load flintlock or caplock, and then fire"
peace
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cyber.g
Howdy Stranger



Registered: 11/13/09
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Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Anonymous said: okay, so i want to buy an ak47 soon, but one must wonder..how do i get one legally? and if i was to buy it illicitly, can i make it legal?
oh, and how do i acquire a gun license? Ive been meaning to get one.

the reason being is that these two tweeker chicks want to kill me for 'stalking' them, which is bullshit because theyve been smoking speed for weeks
the stalking part came into play when i was cleaning my windows and they thought i was watching them play 
i think its easy enough to get a replica ak47 as long as its semi-auto and doesnt hold more bullets than is legal in your state/province.
-------------------- Whats better, Sex or DRUUUUUGS? Duh its drugs
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Cascadian
Feel like a Stranger



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Re: weaponry [Re: cyber.g]
#11852512 - 01/18/10 11:42 AM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Best choice for home defense hands down is a pump action shotgun...the sound of shucking a shell into the chamber is scary enough, and as far as aim is concerned, if your close, you hit them, lastly, no chance of it going through the wall and into someone else...i recommend a mossberg 500 or remington 590...
While I dont necessarily disagree with your recommendation - it's not quite so cut and dry.
The Box of Truth: The Shotgun
Quote:
Lessons learned: 1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.
So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.
The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.
The slug penetrated all 12 boards.
2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.
You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.
3. The slugs were "bad" penetrators. By that, I mean that they will penetrate several interior walls. If you have loved ones in your home, consider this as you select your home defense weapon.
4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels. Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint.
Even #4 buck will go through 3 interior walls before stopping. 00 buck will go through 4, and thats likely what you'd load for self defense. Youre still going to kill anyone unfortunate enough to be behind that gun no matter what room they are in in your house.
However an AK47 will go through most exterior walls without even slowing... so you might kill a couple neighbors in addition to just your roommates.
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Anonymous #1
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okay, so what's a good shell for a shotgun that's harmless, as far as penetration/stopping power
actually, now im thinking of getting less lethal rounds, such as rubber pellets/bean bags.
Does the owner need a special shotgun or can it be any without damaging the weapon?
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allreadyused
The Liquor



Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 480
Loc: Trailer Park, Nova Scotia
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Remington 870 with 00 buck is my choice. Full auto for home defense is not practical at all; unless you live in Afghanistan. Have you ever shot a full auto AK or SKS? If you did you wouldn't be asking. Long guns make good home defense weapons as long over penetration isn't an issue. You'll have much more control on semi auto. You can still fire a round as fast as you can pull the trigger. Plus if you ever have to use it in self defense when the cops show up your not facing federal charges for the full auto. Private citizens can obtain a federal firearms license which would allow you to posses a full auto AK; but it's not likely the FBI would let you have one.
-------------------- Everything I say is for entertainment. Fuck the ASPCA
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Cascadian
Feel like a Stranger



Registered: 09/13/08
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Quote:
Anonymous said: okay, so what's a good shell for a shotgun that's harmless, as far as penetration/stopping power
actually, now im thinking of getting less lethal rounds, such as rubber pellets/bean bags.
Does the owner need a special shotgun or can it be any without damaging the weapon?
Anything that wont blow through a wall in your house isnt going to effectively stop a threat.
They make rubber slugs I think - any 12 gauge without a choke could take those.
All youre gonna do is blow the bad guy down and make him angrier.
If he has a gun, you can be sure hes gonna use it now.
Not to mention a shot in the eye or heart would probably still kill someone.
If you arent committed to KILLING somebody who threatens your life, dont even THINK about buying a gun and showing a bad guy youve got one.
If you have cause to kill someone and can prove that using your firearm was your only way out of the situation, you probably wont go to jail. Youll still have to face a lot of legal bills to prove it and keep you out of jail though.
Say someone breaks into your house, unarmed. You freak out and kill them. Theres a serious chance youre going to jail.
Say that guy is armed. You yell 'i've got a gun motherfucker!' and you hit him in the leg with a bean bag. You're dead.
The only good a gun does you in a self defense scenario is when you are in control of the situation and you KNOW you HAVE to use it, and you are ABLE to use it effectively. That generally means killing someone so they 1: dont shoot back and 2: dont testify against you later.
Can you handle that?
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Anonymous #1
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you're right, but i would ratherly disable someone then assess the threat with a back-up weapon if i was to disable someone with the beanbag.
so, once again, what's an ideal shot for home-defense, without threatening the life of others?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
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Quote:
Say that guy is armed. You yell 'i've got a gun motherfucker!' and you hit him in the leg with a bean bag. You're dead.
I don't think a bad guy would notice that its a bean bag until he was far away. He would think he got shot and would get out of there real fast.
I'd load the first 2 shots with non-lethal rounds, then the rest of them with real lead. Best of both worlds.
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Mchaggis
cawbstawmper




Registered: 05/28/09
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
Say that guy is armed. You yell 'i've got a gun motherfucker!' and you hit him in the leg with a bean bag. You're dead.
I don't think a bad guy would notice that its a bean bag until he was far away. He would think he got shot and would get out of there real fast.
I'd load the first 2 shots with non-lethal rounds, then the rest of them with real lead. Best of both worlds.
we have a winner folks.
Me and my roomate both had .357's and we'd load a round of rat shot as the first shot, then a .38 special round, then the rest with .357 gold-dots.
Chances are you won't have to kill anyone.
--------------------
 I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body
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Anonymous #1
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an ak-47 would be illegal with a drum clip, even if it was semi-auto? im trying to get some things here straight.
by the way, how does one practice shooting? I know gun ranges are ideal, but are there any other places?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Shooting is allowed in many national forests.
Also you can camp for free anywhere there.
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
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I dont think drum clips are illegal
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
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Quote:
Cascadian said:
Quote:
Best choice for home defense hands down is a pump action shotgun...the sound of shucking a shell into the chamber is scary enough, and as far as aim is concerned, if your close, you hit them, lastly, no chance of it going through the wall and into someone else...i recommend a mossberg 500 or remington 590...
While I dont necessarily disagree with your recommendation - it's not quite so cut and dry.
The Box of Truth: The Shotgun
Quote:
Lessons learned: 1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.
So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.
The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.
The slug penetrated all 12 boards.
2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.
You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.
3. The slugs were "bad" penetrators. By that, I mean that they will penetrate several interior walls. If you have loved ones in your home, consider this as you select your home defense weapon.
4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels. Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint.
Even #4 buck will go through 3 interior walls before stopping. 00 buck will go through 4, and thats likely what you'd load for self defense. Youre still going to kill anyone unfortunate enough to be behind that gun no matter what room they are in in your house.
However an AK47 will go through most exterior walls without even slowing... so you might kill a couple neighbors in addition to just your roommates.
I am not so worried about the people in my home, as in the horrible instance i ever actually had to use it for defense, i would most certainly think before shooting in the direction of my wife/kids room, im more worried about penetration to outside my home and then to inside my neighbors, which with the brick houses our neighborhood is made of, is not going to happen...now if some guy happens to be standing right next to my wall at the same time, then it may be different...
Next, the part about being scared by the sound, im not going for fainting (thats just stupid), im going for thief at the back door, me in my room, get gun ready, make a loud enough noise that he actually can hear it, and he runs away, not loses his bowels...thats just ridiculous. And yes, you have to aim, as i stated, if your close (i did not in any way go in depth about how close, types of choke, whether u use birdshot vs. a slug, etc.) you can hit them, especially down a hallway, with the right choke and some birdshot. Lastly, i agree with everyone of his points, though he makes them like a douche.Quote:
Cascadian said:
Quote:
Anonymous said: okay, so what's a good shell for a shotgun that's harmless, as far as penetration/stopping power
actually, now im thinking of getting less lethal rounds, such as rubber pellets/bean bags.
Does the owner need a special shotgun or can it be any without damaging the weapon?
Anything that wont blow through a wall in your house isnt going to effectively stop a threat.
They make rubber slugs I think - any 12 gauge without a choke could take those.
All youre gonna do is blow the bad guy down and make him angrier.
If he has a gun, you can be sure hes gonna use it now.
Not to mention a shot in the eye or heart would probably still kill someone.
If you arent committed to KILLING somebody who threatens your life, dont even THINK about buying a gun and showing a bad guy youve got one.
If you have cause to kill someone and can prove that using your firearm was your only way out of the situation, you probably wont go to jail. Youll still have to face a lot of legal bills to prove it and keep you out of jail though.
Say someone breaks into your house, unarmed. You freak out and kill them. Theres a serious chance youre going to jail.
Say that guy is armed. You yell 'i've got a gun motherfucker!' and you hit him in the leg with a bean bag. You're dead.
The only good a gun does you in a self defense scenario is when you are in control of the situation and you KNOW you HAVE to use it, and you are ABLE to use it effectively. That generally means killing someone so they 1: dont shoot back and 2: dont testify against you later.
Can you handle that?
You are totally right. Having a gun and not being willing to kill someone with it is not a good idea. Say the burglar didn't think you were home, and is just some unarmed guy wanting to take what he can carry, you pull a gun on him, and if you aren't willing to use it and he catches onto that, he may just take it from you, and now he is armed, and you are dead. And yes, shooting someone that is unarmed can always land you in some trouble up to murder charges, the amount of trouble can differ on the state and judge/jury...luckily, here in Texas, i have seen most cases this not be a problem. There was a case in my town recently where a man discovered his neighbors house being robbed, called the police, then went to take care of the situation himself. When he went in one of the two men ran at him, he shot him twice with his handgun, the other man ran. The man he shot later died, and the man that did the shooting was charged, but got all charges dropped and had the judge thank him for his civil duty. Apparently this thief had been robbing lots of places, and when they searched his car, he had all kinds of guns in it, though wasn't armed at the time.Quote:
Anonymous said: an ak-47 would be illegal with a drum clip, even if it was semi-auto? im trying to get some things here straight.
by the way, how does one practice shooting? I know gun ranges are ideal, but are there any other places?
Not necessarily, depends on the state and laws at the time. A few years back, that would be illegal anywhere in the country, but now that the assault weapons ban has expired, here, its just fine to have that if i wanted in my state, may be different elsewhere, i do not know. Gun ranges or out of the city limits with good backing and plenty of area where you know you can't accidently hit anyone are about the only places.
As far as loads, i have 1 shell of 9 birdshot, followed by some tactical shells known as 'pitbull' (its 4 rounds of 00 buck with a one ounce slug behind it) loaded when at home.
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Moronicus
smokehousebacon.



Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 4,430
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#11854919 - 01/18/10 06:05 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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so, anyone wouldn't be needing a license for a shotgun/rifle, only handguns?
so, how would someone go about buying a weapon, just walk in show them ID, do paperwork, and all that?
Edited by Moronicus (01/18/10 06:06 PM)
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Cascadian
Feel like a Stranger



Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 1,130
Loc: Cascadia
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Shotgun/Rifle you walk in with your drivers license (all current with your current address etc.) You fill out a bunch of paperwork, they make a phone call, you walk out with it 20 minutes later.
Handguns have a 7 day waiting period, but when you go to buy one, again, you just fill out all the paperwork they give you. Then you go back 7 days later and walk out with it. You dont have to apply for a permit beforehand or anything.
Actually, I got my sixgun at a gun show - no waiting period and hardly any paperwork whatsoever. I had to do about 5x the paperwork at Wal-Mart for my .22 as I did for my .357
Now, a concealed carry permit is state by state. You cant take your handgun anywhere unless its locked in an opaque case or you risk concealed weapon violations. Or depending on your state, it might be okay for you to walk around with a hip holster, but would be illegal to carry it in a pocket, if you dont have your concealed carry. Its wacky and its all state by state.
Anyways, you dont need a concealed carry permit to buy a handgun. If you drive it home from the store and keep it at home, you're set.
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Quote:
Cascadian said: Shotgun/Rifle you walk in with your drivers license (all current with your current address etc.) You fill out a bunch of paperwork, they make a phone call, you walk out with it 20 minutes later.
Handguns have a 7 day waiting period, but when you go to buy one, again, you just fill out all the paperwork they give you. Then you go back 7 days later and walk out with it. You dont have to apply for a permit beforehand or anything.
Actually, I got my sixgun at a gun show - no waiting period and hardly any paperwork whatsoever. I had to do about 5x the paperwork at Wal-Mart for my .22 as I did for my .357
Now, a concealed carry permit is state by state. You cant take your handgun anywhere unless its locked in an opaque case or you risk concealed weapon violations. Or depending on your state, it might be okay for you to walk around with a hip holster, but would be illegal to carry it in a pocket, if you dont have your concealed carry. Its wacky and its all state by state.
Anyways, you dont need a concealed carry permit to buy a handgun. If you drive it home from the store and keep it at home, you're set.
yeah, shotguns/rifles should be nice and quick, just a short form. Handgun laws differ on states, both buying and carrying, like here, i can carry one in my glovebox of my car completely legally without a permit, though thats illegal at other places, though i have to have a permit to carry on my body. Also, there is only a 3 day waiting period for a handgun, and even then, its only if you don't have a concealed carry license, if you do, then you can walk out with one same as a rifle.
peace
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Anonymous #1
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what if a person doesn't have a drivers license, will a california ID work? im just curious about laws, im in california as of right now, LA to be exact.
i'm 18 and im just wondering, i want something for self defense if someone was to enter my house unknowingly.
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sicknesslives09
Stranger

Registered: 01/19/10
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get your gun of choice, legal, and also get a few that are hot, so if you kill someone, you can plant a weapon. MAKE SURE YOU WIPE THE FINGERPRINTS though, or your goin to prison for a very long time. oh yeah, some gloves on the invaders hands would help too, just dont ever wear them, latex works wonders.
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Cascadian
Feel like a Stranger



Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 1,130
Loc: Cascadia
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Quote:
i'm 18 and im just wondering, i want something for self defense if someone was to enter my house unknowingly.
have to be 21 to buy a handgun.
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Anonymous #3
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#11870358 - 01/21/10 02:47 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
supra said:
Quote:
Anonymous said: ahh, well thank you. i just wanted to know if i can get an ak47 for home defense, i can probably find a full-auto no problem, i know a few people...but then again who wants to swiss cheese their own house?
an ak is a horrible choice for Home Defense. If you shoot somone, chances are it goes through their body, continues to travel into and through your wall, and possibly outside into someone else, into your neighbors house, etc. Plus, in a time of stress, you would have to spot on in aim, and, as someone asking these questions, I would guess that you probably aren't the best shot yet.
Best choice for home defense hands down is a pump action shotgun...the sound of shucking a shell into the chamber is scary enough, and as far as aim is concerned, if your close, you hit them, lastly, no chance of it going through the wall and into someone else...i recommend a mossberg 500 or remington 590...
peace
I agree, a shotgun.
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Cyber
Ash



Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Dearborn Michigan
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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If it was me, I would use the Taurus Judge. It is a pistol that can shoot Long Colt .45 ammo or a 410 shotgun shell It is the perfect personal defense weapon
Here is the video about it. 100% legal as a handgun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5GepjBRsM
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QuantumMeltdown
Space Monkey



Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 4,962
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
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Re: weaponry [Re: Cyber]
#11882866 - 01/22/10 11:13 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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.410 shotgun shell is useless as defense ammo, the taurus judge sucks, if you went on a gun forum they would laugh you out of there. Get a colt 1911 if you want a handgun.
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Cascadian
Feel like a Stranger



Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 1,130
Loc: Cascadia
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Box o Truth - Taurus Judge http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
Quote:
3. Buckshot out of a .410 does not penetrate enough to be an effective personal defense load.
4. The rifled slug was also a disappointment and did not have enough weight or power or penetration to be effective as a defense load.
5. The .45 Long Colt loads had plenty of penetration and would be the preferred defense load for this pistol.
But now note: a .45 Long Colt with a 200 gr bullet goes 1,032 ft/s, for 473 ft·lbf
Whereas a .357 magnum can fire a 200 gr load at 1,200 ft/s, for 640 ft·lbs. Thats about 30% more energy killing a bad guy.
Not to mention a box of 50 .357s costs about 20 bucks, whereas the .45 long colt is about 20 bucks for 20 rounds.
and the taurus judge is big and bulky.
So why again would that be a better self defense weapon than an actual shotgun or an actual handgun?
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Cyber
Ash



Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Dearborn Michigan
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Ok, after reading his site I see a couple of things wrong with his tests.
#1) He used 000 buck shot. 3 to a 2.5" .410 shell. I would not use such a large pellet size for that and he even says he had to mod the 3" shell to 2.5" to make it work. It would have been better to do the test with a BB size load in a 2.5" shell. You would have had better penetration and less deformation of the round. #2) 10 yards to his first target with bird shot. Tell me, do you have a place in your apartment or house where you will be shooting at someone who is 30' away? I dont know about you but if some one is in my place the furthest distance for me would be a 15' shot. 1/2 the distance he is shooting at. Reduce the distance and you will get less of a spread and more penetration.
#3) He does not say the distance to the second target. It looks to be 15 yards but may have been only 10 yards. (See statement in #2) As to using a slug, why? .45 long colt rounds would be better and have better penetration.
#4) He claims 4.5" of penetration on the 000 buck. Even on a large guy that is a gut full of 000 buck and no worry about pass through and hitting the person behind him or penetrating a wall and killing the guy next door.
#5) The water test he does, shooting into a 2 liter bottle of water or a milk jug, is calculated at 4" to 6" when done with a JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point). Not a soft lead round like what he was shooting. On a soft lead round it flattens more and changes the SWAG. Penetrating a single milk jug as he does in the second test is closer to a 10" to 12" penetration.
The two most important factors in stopping a bad guy are: 1) where you place your bullets, and 2) what organs your bullets penetrate and damage.
How much penetration is adequate? According to the nation's most prominent wound ballistics experts, your bullets should penetrate at least 12 inches of soft tissue. Penetration beyond 18 inches is considered too much, and a less penetrating design should be considered to optimize the cartridge's wounding potential.
When a bullet expands, the increased diameter and non-aerodynamic shape acts like a parachute to quickly slow and stop the bullet as it penetrates flesh. The issue here is that water provides more resistance than flesh and is a harder target.
Bullets that meet the 12-18 inch penetration guidelines have proven to be very effective in police shooting incidents that have been investigated by reputable researchers who use the scientific method. These findings have been verified and validated by other distinguished wound ballistics researchers who've fully reviewed the data. These findings are far superior in validity to the Marshall/Sanow "one-shot stopping power" junk-science that is published in newsstand gun magazines.
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QuantumMeltdown
Space Monkey



Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 4,962
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
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Re: weaponry [Re: Cyber]
#11885538 - 01/23/10 03:11 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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The judge like any gun will kill you maybe not with the .410 but with the .45 but there are still many better options.
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Cascadian
Feel like a Stranger



Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 1,130
Loc: Cascadia
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: weaponry [Re: Cyber]
#11885660 - 01/23/10 03:36 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cyber said: Ok, after reading his site I see a couple of things wrong with his tests.
#1) He used 000 buck shot. 3 to a 2.5" .410 shell. I would not use such a large pellet size for that and he even says he had to mod the 3" shell to 2.5" to make it work. It would have been better to do the test with a BB size load in a 2.5" shell. You would have had better penetration and less deformation of the round.
He did a test with #6 birdshot, even smaller than BB - he shot a picture of a snake with it. and boy did that paper have a lot of holes in it. He then shot a 2 liter waterbottle and it didnt even go out the other side (meaning less than 4 inches ballistic gel penetration). Birdshot is useless for stopping power. Especially if it isnt from a full 12 gauge shotgun.
And the reason this guy looks for deformation is that deformation INCREASES damage to organs. The more a bullet tears apart or mushrooms the greater the wound.
I think he used such a large shot size to see what the maximum damage possible would be. 00buck would penetrate even less than the 000.
He tested some tiny and some huge diameter shot. Maybe theres a bell curve to effectiveness and #4 buck would penetrate more. I think more likely a .410 shotgun should just be reserved for shooting squirrels and clay pigeons.
Quote:
#2) 10 yards to his first target with bird shot. Tell me, do you have a place in your apartment or house where you will be shooting at someone who is 30' away? I dont know about you but if some one is in my place the furthest distance for me would be a 15' shot. 1/2 the distance he is shooting at. Reduce the distance and you will get less of a spread and more penetration.
You think the 4.5" of BG the buckshot penetrated would have nearly TRIPLED had he been standing 15' closer? I think they might have gone a few more inches, but still nowhere near the 12-18" zone.
Quote:
#3) He does not say the distance to the second target. It looks to be 15 yards but may have been only 10 yards. (See statement in #2) As to using a slug, why? .45 long colt rounds would be better and have better penetration.
He tested both slugs and .45LC to compare them. Some people might think otherwise so he tested all possibilities. His test proved the slug was not as effective as the .45LC
Quote:
#4) He claims 4.5" of penetration on the 000 buck. Even on a large guy that is a gut full of 000 buck and no worry about pass through and hitting the person behind him or penetrating a wall and killing the guy next door.
just as you say a little further down here - 4.5" is not effective stopping power. and 3 balls with a wide spread does not make 'a gut full'. You have a good point about wall penetration, but dont buy a gun if your main concern is in being able to shoot it at a wall and not hurt someone behind it. Just dont shoot at a wall with someone behind it and you're okay.
Quote:
#5) The water test he does, shooting into a 2 liter bottle of water or a milk jug, is calculated at 4" to 6" when done with a JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point). Not a soft lead round like what he was shooting. On a soft lead round it flattens more and changes the SWAG. Penetrating a single milk jug as he does in the second test is closer to a 10" to 12" penetration.
Keep in mind that 4 inches of water is not 4 inches of BG. When he tests the .45LC, he says " It penetrated 5 jugs, or equal to 15 inches of BG. " a single milk jug is nowhere near 10-12" of penetration. But you are correct, a soft lead round deforms more than a JHP which deforms more than a FMJ. What was the point in #5 again?
Quote:
The two most important factors in stopping a bad guy are: 1) where you place your bullets, and 2) what organs your bullets penetrate and damage.
How much penetration is adequate? According to the nation's most prominent wound ballistics experts, your bullets should penetrate at least 12 inches of soft tissue. Penetration beyond 18 inches is considered too much, and a less penetrating design should be considered to optimize the cartridge's wounding potential.
When a bullet expands, the increased diameter and non-aerodynamic shape acts like a parachute to quickly slow and stop the bullet as it penetrates flesh. The issue here is that water provides more resistance than flesh and is a harder target.
Bullets that meet the 12-18 inch penetration guidelines have proven to be very effective in police shooting incidents that have been investigated by reputable researchers who use the scientific method. These findings have been verified and validated by other distinguished wound ballistics researchers who've fully reviewed the data. These findings are far superior in validity to the Marshall/Sanow "one-shot stopping power" junk-science that is published in newsstand gun magazines.
? you are correct. As asserted, the .410 capability of the taurus judge doesnt meet your own standards. the .45 long colt round does, but other weapons will do the same (or better) in a smaller package while costing less in both the firearm and the ammunition.
I havent even mentioned hydrostatic shock but you seem ready to quote someone about it being a myth. So speaking of newsstand gun magazine hype: the judge sucks.
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allreadyused
The Liquor



Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 480
Loc: Trailer Park, Nova Scotia
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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I've shot the Judge, it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot. But I have to agree as a primary home defense weapon it falls short. It would be great for keeping in your car in case of a carjacking; but my Glock 19 is fine for that plus it holds 10 more rounds than the Judge. Some ammo manufacturers as a result of the Judge being on the market have begun developing 00 410 rounds with home defense in mind.
-------------------- Everything I say is for entertainment. Fuck the ASPCA
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Phanodude
Sir

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 475
Loc: US of A
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You can go to any local gunshow at your fairgrounds or a state fair and get an AK 47. Gun liscenses are usually done at the DMV or the City Hall (definately don't bring the weapon, just the paperwork lol). You can have a fully automatic AK-47 but that's federally restricted and will require an application process.
My friends dad flies overseas and to africa all the time and he's got like 2 recently made ak's 1 is fully the other is semi and one semi auto from like pakistan or something.
I don't think you can ILLEGALLY purchase a weapon then make the transaction legal later by registering it. That's too risky of business sir, just go to a gunshow.
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QuantumMeltdown
Space Monkey



Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 4,962
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
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recently made fully auto weapons cannot be licensed to be legal your friends dads ak is illegal if he brought it over from pstan.
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Phanodude
Sir

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 475
Loc: US of A
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I don't think he's worried about them being legal or not. They're fucking super rich and he stays out of trouble so if they are ever used it'd be for home defense. IDK if it was pakistan but i know it was one of those middle eastern countries.
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wortime
admiral



Registered: 02/01/10
Posts: 34
Loc: rockies
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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WTF? this is a bull shit post. And while your problem, if its real, would suck? You should be kicked off for the mention of illegal high powered weaponry.
NEVER FUCK WITH TWEAKERS. They will dwell on shit, and in the their sleep deprived delirium they will make up all kinds of shit. And THEN they get to plotting/planning, like Bill Gates on , well, on Speed. Simpler, better safer solution is to MOVE and never contact them again. cross the street, leave the bar, whatever. Buying a gun is a bad bad bad idea/solution.
Oh.....and stop hitting on lesbian tweekers!
-------------------- “It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” - Henry Ford "We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years... It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government." - David Rockefeller, Bilderberg Meeting, June 1991 Baden, Germany
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KillaFoRilla
Heretic



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 1,520
Last seen: 4 years, 16 days
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#11948504 - 02/02/10 03:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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The SKS will always be one of my favs.
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Anonymous #4
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Quote:
Anonymous said: ahh, well thank you. i just wanted to know if i can get an ak47 for home defense, i can probably find a full-auto no problem, i know a few people...but then again who wants to swiss cheese their own house?
Sure you can legally own a full auto, with a license of course. You can have a Barrett .50 caliber, AK-47, a kitchen knife or hell even your own two hands for home defense.
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Billious
Stranger
Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 13
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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I love when I'm on an internet forum where younger guys start talking about guns, so much machismo thrown around.
Just because we all share a love for certain counter-cultural activities does not mean we have to go off like boner-brained 14 year olds. The facts about guns:
1: We hope we never have to use them for self-defense. 2: We have a responsibility to the safety of others around. Defending ourselves doesn't give us the right to endanger others. 3: A medium caliber handgun is going to be more than sufficient for any kind of home-invasion scenario that could be reasonably expected.
Yes, I understand a squad of black-masked Yakuza could rappel through your porch door, and a fully-auto AK could make the difference between getting away or not. Is this ever going to happen?
It scares me when people start ranting and frothing at the mouth about their stash of guns and ammo, because more often than not those people are far too immature to handle the ethical and legal implications of using force to counter force.
My .40 cal handgun is placed strategically in it's case, with 2 clips of ammo ready to load up. I can have the thing ready to rock in 5 seconds, and I think that's a very reasonable balance of preparation vs. risk.
</soapbox>
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QuantumMeltdown
Space Monkey



Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 4,962
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
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It might not be necessary but their fun to shoot, own and look at no? Whats the harm its our right. If we don't exercise it then we don't have it.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Quote:
It scares me when people start ranting and frothing at the mouth about their stash of guns and ammo, because more often than not those people are far too immature to handle the ethical and legal implications of using force to counter force.
That's kind of a rash judgement without knowing anything about these people except that they like powerful weaponry.
You never know what kind of force you will face. Cops bust in all the time in full body armor with fully automatic weapons looking to steal your property, deprive you of your liberty, violate you and your families rights, and potentially kill you.
There are plenty of cases where cops bust into an innocent persons house, kill or wound them, and then plant a gun and/or drugs on them to cover up their mistake.
Personally I use a single shot 20 gauge for defense. If someone breaks into my house they get a single slug to the chest. If I miss or simply wound them the light gun makes an excellent weapon to beat their head in. It's the perfect size and weight to defend yourself with, about equivalent to a baseball bat.
-FF
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Anonymous #5
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AK47 for the win, you can get one legally like I did.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?



Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: weaponry [Re: supra]
#12071115 - 02/21/10 01:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
supra said:
Quote:
Anonymous said: ahh, well thank you. i just wanted to know if i can get an ak47 for home defense, i can probably find a full-auto no problem, i know a few people...but then again who wants to swiss cheese their own house?
an ak is a horrible choice for Home Defense. If you shoot somone, chances are it goes through their body, continues to travel into and through your wall, and possibly outside into someone else, into your neighbors house, etc. Plus, in a time of stress, you would have to spot on in aim, and, as someone asking these questions, I would guess that you probably aren't the best shot yet.
Best choice for home defense hands down is a pump action shotgun...the sound of shucking a shell into the chamber is scary enough, and as far as aim is concerned, if your close, you hit them, lastly, no chance of it going through the wall and into someone else...i recommend a mossberg 500 or remington 590...
peace
This is good advice.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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