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Invisibledaytripper23
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Sensory Activity Fields
    #11806948 - 01/11/10 11:42 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The Tibetan book of the dead, further citing the Abhidharma, identifies 12 sensory activity fields, six of which are designated as external and the remainder as internal, divided into pairs as follows:

The activity field of the eye and the activity fields of from
The activity fields of the ear and of sound
The activity fields of the nose and of smell
The activity fields of the tongue and of taste
The activity fields of the body and touch
The activity fields of mind and of mental objects or phenomena.

So immediately one notes that the "internal and external" are pairs, neither relegating one or the other.

On a similar note, its interesting that the mind, further, is apparently treated on the same level as the other fields, rather than as a particular arena, structure, or hierarchy for what is beheld as sensory.

So it would seem, for instance, in the traditionally spacial propensity of philosophy; the eye, form, and mind's are level topography of the ground of being.

What (how) does one make of this?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: daytripper23]
    #11807236 - 01/11/10 01:01 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

On a similar note, its interesting that the mind, further, is apparently treated on the same level as the other fields, rather than as a particular arena, structure, or hierarchy for what is beheld as sensory.

I think this is wise.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: Icelander]
    #11807286 - 01/11/10 01:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm confused. What is the difference between the activity field of the ear and the activity field of sound?


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: daytripper23]
    #11807351 - 01/11/10 01:23 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
So immediately one notes that the "internal and external" are pairs, neither relegating one or the other.




So they hold hands in a sense, I dig...

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
On a similar note, its interesting that the mind, further, is apparently treated on the same level as the other fields, rather than as a particular arena, structure, or hierarchy for what is beheld as sensory.

So it would seem, for instance, in the traditionally spacial propensity of philosophy; the eye, form, and mind's are level topography of the ground of being.

What (how) does one make of this?




I am not sure what to "make of this" ... I suppose it would be to say that the ideal realm is indeed a packet of the greater packet "of being" - the mind distills the "extended" happenings in a way that inflames a self directed body via affections to effecting itself to (primarily in a biological sense) perpetuate its powers (virtues of expansion and persistence). However to fixate on either AS a said agent with primacy seems a conundrum of reasonable causation. Which, does work, but often stinks of arbitrary axiomatic'ness, that is in fact now believed as constructed by the mind itself... So it starts to seem as though we are begging the question and really are stating that we do have a hold of the differences between feelings and mental states and the extended interactions of solids. However are they ultimately not dual and the mental and physical realms one in the same? So is it to say that the mental primacy leads to illusions of physicality and physical primacy leads to illusions of mentality? How do we reconcile? I am rambling on, enough!


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Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: andrewss]
    #11807364 - 01/11/10 01:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What if the brain/mind and body were all one thing?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: Icelander]
    #11807463 - 01/11/10 01:45 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah... but I get wary about ranking.

But then again what does it mean to say that these two "attributes" of our lives are non dual? They are the same... thing... what is the thing? A monistic substance with its forte in "deception"

Meaning it appears that, as regarded as extension, we still find that our route to self discovering this concrete thing that we feel as us and the world... is seated in the thing that we divided as the realm of ideals, as something different. So how does this interact? Did we grow a sort of tendency to be self convinced of our meditation of our needs as being innate? Does everything grow from our needs and body quite masterfully convinced itself of itself via memorized ideas???? Huh?

But then again that seems to say that the machine that is the organic intellect is quite engrossed with its store house (the brain) and can operate within its own little nook or packet of real impressions. But then it is funny that it can be "tricked" via hallucination revealing how it often is concerned with what "works" ... enough.

This is too much too early for me... hahaha


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Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: andrewss]
    #11807530 - 01/11/10 01:55 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Well I'm thinking of this as, mind being a sense of the brain just like hearing or taste or smell. Mind just projects itself onto the field of awareness as the "I". It's just all functions of brain.

Does that make any sense?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: Icelander]
    #11807561 - 01/11/10 01:59 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well I'm thinking of this as, mind being a sense of the brain just like hearing or taste or smell. Mind just projects itself onto the field of awareness as the "I". It's just all functions of brain.

Does that make any sense?




Well I think properly the "mind" isnt to be considered just like, akin, to the modalities of sense... it is probably the net sum of the outward facing sensory apparatus' powers inflected, to me... but yes the self is housed in a fragile thing - the brain - at least how we usually are accustomed to the feeling of being a thing. But self ness could be merely a very basic attribute of the unified substance it just needs a store house of accumulated mechanisms to show itself off? Oh jesus I am done, time for lunch... :lol:


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Jesus loves you.


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: andrewss]
    #11808490 - 01/11/10 04:13 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

First of all I like this idea modality of the senses. It seems to be a central concept in the reading too - for instance, as "modality of buddha mind".

But the Tibetans also specifically emphasize that it is not substantial, lacking inherent existence. Stepping back to a wider context, the sensory activity fields is one of the twelve links in the doctrine of dependent origination, (preceded by name and form, followed by contact.) You could say that dependent origination is "precisely lacking substantiation". That is how I humbly sort it out at least. Basically this would mean that the propriety of our genealogical work is only ostensible truth. As I understand it, this is due to its (manifest) arising out of the duality of representation. For instance, remember genealogy vs evolution? 

You know of course that I too enjoy this kind of work, but I feel like I've seen it out, and it wasn't very redeeming. I see it reaching its epitome in Nietzsche's Dionysian, in Terrence Mckenna's revolutionary work, or artistically, in literary masterpieces like "Hamlet", or Doestoyevsky's "The brother's Karamazov" (what is a Karamazov?). I have a bit of pride in seeing this "truth", but I think what I have really learned is how fruitless that is (so to say). Despite the persistence of opinions, or even despite the "truth" of these masterpieces, I ultimately only find pathos, and then tragedy in this approach.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: Icelander]
    #11808877 - 01/11/10 05:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Well I'm thinking of this as, mind being a sense of the brain just like hearing or taste or smell.




This is what I go with normally.

eye-view.

I-view.

Same difference.


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Sensory Activity Fields [Re: Freedom]
    #11809374 - 01/11/10 06:26 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Freedom, I'm not sure, but I would guess it has something to do with an emphasis on "activity" - perhaps in a non-intuitive way.

In the threefold terminology of ears, hearing, and the mind, maybe it would be worth elaborating upon modality from a tonal/harmonic perspective. To begin with I say "tonal/harmonic" in view dependent origination. (So yea, I am a confused about the ear part too but as to the latter two...)

So far as I understand, both the east and west utilize the modalities, but their conceptualization of it is different. I am thinking that "recurrence" as a basis of knowledge, and in consideration of its ("own") primordiality, is where the eastern and western paths diverge:

The major scale is circular. To sing the solfegio "do re mi fa so la ti (do)" demonstrates the major scale as it "recurs" on itself. You could think of this as the number series too 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10(11).

In this view, it is possible to demonstrate the idea of modality from what seems to be a more primordial scale. Modality "shifts" the intervals of the scale, so as to sing: "re mi fa so la ti do (re)", or "mi fa so la ti do re (mi)" but while preserving the tonal root, and the series of intervals. So again using numbers as an alternate, imagine a situation where emphasis or root would for some reason be established on 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,(12) or 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13.

The mode is seen from "l" - "eye view", or in principal as an appropriation of the "scale" or the number series when it is presented this way.

But this manner of explanation does not indicate that a scale (do re mi fa so la ti do) is actually more primordial than (its) modes. It always had emphasis do re mi fa so la ti (do) so long as it existed in the harmonic realm, yet its principal is elaborated as if there was order to this finding or appearing, itself. Only the weight of pedantic tradition establishes solfegio, from the root of "Do", "first", as the major scale, and "then" elaborates propriety in modal natures. 

This difference is established in the manner of conception and representation, between the duality of tone (where "DO" actually exists as simply as "OM") and harmony (ordered scale's, modes, etc).


Edited by daytripper23 (01/11/10 06:56 PM)


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