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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11798741 - 01/09/10 09:13 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

The extraction is for a non-subjective, objective and quantitifable measurement of the actives. By knowing how much actives are in each strain, we can "predict" the results in the "subjective, dosing experiment". Basically, its a much more objective measurement of how much each actives PE and a control strain actually has. Using just trip reports of the 2 mushrooms is really messy and possiblily inaccurate data. Weighing the actives is more tangible and convincing evidence of the difference in potency, at least in my opinion.

Although I admit, the subjective trip part of the project is nessary because it all comes down to this term called "potency".

My quote:
"Assuming extraction technique is explicitly explained and standardized: Use same statistic analysis as above: weigh all extracted samples of each strain and arranged in order of least to greatest amount. Then, take median of each data set for its corrisponding strain (PE and Control) and use that as our "average"."

Sorry about the confusion, I'm not sure where I was going with the statement. That wouldn't really be nessary huh? What would be nessary is that the TOTAL amount of mushrooms from 1 flush from 1 strain are dried and powdered.

--> One problem I see is properly mixing the ground-up podwered mushrooms from the entire flush so that is *evenly distrubuted* within the powder. How could we control for that? How would you know that the 1 gram of powder taken say from the Total 50 grams (from the entire flush) has a piece of all those shrooms in that 1 gram dosage? I'm thinking some kind of colored dye on "catagories" of mushrooms, say by size, would work that doesn't interfer with the actives or the solvents...
But see, this problem would not be an issue if you did an extraction/weigh actives experiment, since you are extracting the ENTIRE FLUSH of mushrooms all at once.

So many variables...man!

Any thoughts?
~ LogicaL Chaos ~

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Re: Potency Project [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #11798790 - 01/09/10 09:23 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

I have ideas but I am drunk! Woohoo! SATURDAY!

Gimmee a day or two I have some thoughts to compile. I think I know how we can start all this.


--------------------
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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
    #11798812 - 01/09/10 09:27 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Interesting technique choice Cerevates...

Report back on your results after you have performed the procedure.

Seriously Saturday
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11798936 - 01/09/10 09:51 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
I don't understand the need for extraction.

Look, which apples are sweeter- Red Delicious, or Granny Smith?
Sure, you can get a Granny Smith that isn't as tart. And some Red Delicious apples just aren't delicious.
But I can eat the two and tell you which is sweeter.

I don't need to extract the sugar.
I don't need to know whether it's all fructose.
I don't need to weigh the amounts of sugar in each apple on every tree in the orchard.

You guys are making this harder than it needs to be.




The only thing that tells us is that your senses tell you it is 'sweeter', and that doesn't necessarily make it so. There are plenty of other chemicals that may be present that could skew your perceptions.

Lets say that perhaps confidently you ate a lemon directly before each granny smith you ever ate, and a piece of pecan pie before every red delicious. If you forgot about the before ate foods, your view on the sweetness of each of the above apples may be different.

Lets say that it didn't, and my above statements were complete bullshit and crap. Perhaps some of us won't settle for your, or our, personal subjective realities as evidence of something. When someone tells me something that I think is questionable and I ask for some sort of proof, "Doc_T ate one and said they're stronger" just doesn't cut it in my book. I'm enough of a skeptic for me to say "I ate one and they're stronger" to not be sufficient evidence either.

If you don't understand the need for me to have an evidencary standard beyond the subjective reality that I perceive, that's okay. While my methods may be complicated, over thought, and possibly perceived as silly by you or others, all I ask is that you understand that the burden of proof I require before believing something revolves around measurements of testable and falsifiable hypothesis.


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


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Re: Potency Project [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11799055 - 01/09/10 10:08 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Sorry about the confusion, I'm not sure where I was going with the statement. That wouldn't really be nessary huh? What would be nessary is that the TOTAL amount of mushrooms from 1 flush from 1 strain are dried and powdered.




It wouldn't need to be of an entire flush, but it would make the removal of the whole random selection thing easier. I'd suggest cakes for simplicity.

Recording the weight of each 'shroom' could be useful data that could be used later, however.

Quote:

--> One problem I see is properly mixing the ground-up podwered mushrooms from the entire flush so that is *evenly distrubuted* within the powder. How could we control for that? How would you know that the 1 gram of powder taken say from the Total 50 grams (from the entire flush) has a piece of all those shrooms in that 1 gram dosage? I'm thinking some kind of colored dye on "catagories" of mushrooms, say by size, would work that doesn't interfer with the actives or the solvents...
But see, this problem would not be an issue if you did an extraction/weigh actives experiment, since you are extracting the ENTIRE FLUSH of mushrooms all at once.




Thats the beauty of randomness, baby! I know that each sample taken from the population would be a rather random assortment of each of the mushrooms from that batch. I know there will be variance between each sample as far as cap/stem ratio and sizes of the shrooms. This is acceptable.

I would think that sticking a flush of dried shrooms in a blender for 15 mins would introduce sufficient entropy to ensure that if you took 3-5 samples out of that entirety that it would be statistically random enough and representative of the population as a whole. Once sample wouldn't be, but a rather small number of samples should be.

Using the entire population would also be just dandy.

There are 2-3 things that people keep on chasing after that I am concerned with.

1. PE Vs. X strain. This is a piss poor comparison in reality. To be more comprehensive, it would be better to compile a list of 10 or so strains at 'random' to each be extracted/compiled/analized/ect. To this, the data from PE would be added to find the mean/median/etc. of cubes as a (relative) whole. From this data set should any individual race be compared, including B+ & PE.
2. Trip testing. I believe this would be better left to a seperate set of experiments, if done at all. Even as LogicalChaos said above, the shit's subjective and inherently imprecise. The experiments could be done in conjunction, but doing them both concurrently with 'satellite experimenters' seems to add all sorts of layers of complexity and even worse of a foundation that this idea already has.
3. MS inoculations. Even though it is the only realistic way to pull it off realistically without a singular consortium and physical location, it's still going to give shit data.


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


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Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11799077 - 01/09/10 10:11 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Damn, well-said scientist!

I couldn't of said it better...

Remember...:themoreyouknow:...the better the science....

^^Damn that read nice!
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Re: Potency Project [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #11799158 - 01/09/10 10:26 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Damn, well-said scientist!

I couldn't of said it better...

Remember...:themoreyouknow:...the better the science....

^^Damn that read nice!
~ LogicaL Chaos ~




:rofl:

I'm a welder.


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

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Re: Potency Project [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11799386 - 01/09/10 11:35 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

fundamentalchair said:
3. MS inoculations. Even though it is the only realistic way to pull it off realistically without a singular consortium and physical location, it's still going to give shit data.



I know several people have given some input on this, but I just want to hear it again.

Why on earth would MS inocs give shit data? I think the misleading shit data would come from isolates. Plus, plenty of people here use multi-spore as their standard operating procedure.

Are we trying to figure out whether the best PE isolate is better than the best strain X isolate? or are we trying to figure out whether the average flush from spore print/syringe of PE is better than the average from strain X? The latter was my assumption.

MS is the only meaningful way to solve the question "is PE more potent." Using isolates would give biased data; any one of us could isolate a weak PE culture, and a strong B+ culture.

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Necco]
    #11799416 - 01/09/10 11:45 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

I agree...isolates would be biased, because it does not represent the "natural" varity and behaviour of the strain, and it applies more to real-world applications like when people are considering growing PE for its assumed higher potency...

The only problem thou is that since there is so much varible between shrooms to shrooms in MS, that it will cause very messy data sets. But, I think the "use a MS inocc., harvest all mushrooms from 1 flush, dry them all, grind them up, and mix up the powder really good" technique should solve that problem, because its like taking a sample that is the population, i.e. the flush. Sure, the population we are considering here EVERY shroom from EVERY flush and EVERY MS, but I would argue the mushrooms from one complete flush is a good sample set to represent the entire population (PE strain).

What do you think?

Interesting stuff!
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Re: Potency Project [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11800404 - 01/10/10 06:29 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

fundamentalchair said:
"Doc_T ate one and said they're stronger" just doesn't cut it in my book.




Agreed. But,
"Doc_T, and fundamentalchair, and weilii and about a dozen other guys including a few TCs tried it- and they said there's something to this."
That's a different statement.


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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11801385 - 01/10/10 11:35 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

About Isolates...

Quote:

I said...
You have the right idea but the wrong process. Multiple MS inoculations may not give a median or average results as compared to the median of the contents of all isolations. In short, with MS you don't know what the hell your gonna get or if it's even an accurate representation of 'average'. By compiling data from all isolates from a spore sample as well as multiple MS shots from the same sample you can then determine if that is an accurate correlation.

My guess is that the confidence level required to use MS as 'average' would be quite low. This of course could be mitigated by many iterations of MS grows, but it sounds tedious and less precise than just doing the isolate route

-----

If that were true, I don't think B  would have a rep of being less potent. Who does isolates and has testing equipment to verify the potency of each isolate without taking a tremendous amount of time (i.e. not just shrooming twice a week till all 20-30 isolates have been tested)?

The only logical way to do such is to work with all the isolates.

If you're worried about non-conformity between isolation parameters, how do you address the conformity issues between the other variables such as extraction technique, substrate variance, and the homogeneity of ingredients used by different people?

-----

Imagining a MS as the proverbial dice roll, you will never roll a '3.5'. For a dice the only sure fire way to figure out the 'average' roll would be to calculate the 'value' of each outcome and multiply it by it's probability. The sum of these values would then be it's average.

While I am in full understanding that I am vastly oversimplifying by making a comparison from a MS shoot to a dice roll, the same basic premises apply. One 'roll' won't be average, and without doing some sort of statistical analysis on multiple samples (as finding every possibility would be impossible), your comparison would be worth it's weight in ice; To an Eskimo.

By measuring and compiling the data from all isolates obtained from a print (or multiples) I think it would give better data as well as better measurements and plots of plausible outcomes. I honestly can't see the with this process other than the large scale of work that would need to be done.




When I say isolate, for some reason people seem to interperate it as though I am talking about comparing one isolate to another isolate. I am talking about comparing the entire population of isolates (from a sample) to another entire population of isolates (from a sample).

Quote:

I agree...isolates would be biased, because it does not represent the "natural" varity and behaviour of the strain, and it applies more to real-world applications like when people are considering growing PE for its assumed higher potency...




&

Quote:

Why on earth would MS inocs give shit data? I think the misleading shit data would come from isolates. Plus, plenty of people here use multi-spore as their standard operating procedure.




You have absolutely no idea as to how close to the median a particular grow is. The data isn't shit, honestly, but peoples interpretation of data when given in a way that it can be used poorly will give to shit results.

If you can run 20 or so of each tested strains and use that as a sample population, sure. You get 2-3 of each and it's as good as worthless. More importantly, many people will tout it as fact and therefore propagate more misinformation as fact and we're in an even worse condition than we started off in. In effect, we will 'prove' something that may well be not true due to piss poor data interpretation.

Quote:

Agreed. But,
"Doc_T, and fundamentalchair, and weilii and about a dozen other guys including a few TCs tried it- and they said there's something to this."
That's a different statement.




For you, perhaps.

I don't trust my own senses, why would I trust a collection of mine and other peoples?

Why do we use a level and a measuring tape when building a house or hanging a picture? Does 5 people staring at a picture and saying it's level make it so?


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light

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Re: Potency Project [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11802449 - 01/10/10 02:29 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

It's easier to do multiple MS grows than it is do do multiple isolate grows, because it skips the step of isolation. Everything else is the same. You could also look at it this way: MS grows are the same as using isolates, just several at a time (and pushing out the weak slow growers & ignoring the non fruiters).

Because there are countless isolates to be found in any inoculation, selecting several dozen from a plate still gives bias. I don't disagree that multiple MS grows would need to be done. Nobody implied that we could get all the results we needed from a few trays. Either way, we would need to grow out many batches and average them all; using isolation does not allow us to use fewer grows for a conclusion.

Quote:

you said
You have the right idea but the wrong process. Multiple MS inoculations may not give a median or average results as compared to the median of the contents of all isolations. In short, with MS you don't know what the hell your gonna get or if it's even an accurate representation of 'average'. By compiling data from all isolates from a spore sample as well as multiple MS shots from the same sample you can then determine if that is an accurate correlation.



You're right, the two methods would probably give different results. That is because if we tested all isolates we would also be testing the sub-strains that would have been overrun in a MS inoc, or would never have been selected due to poor growth or appearance by somebody working with agar.

Quote:

you said
Imagining a MS as the proverbial dice roll, you will never roll a '3.5'. For a dice the only sure fire way to figure out the 'average' roll would be to calculate the 'value' of each outcome and multiply it by it's probability. The sum of these values would then be it's average.



You're right, this is an over simplification. This analogy is invalid. By using isolates you remove a certain constraint on probability. With MS, there is a probability that substrains will be subdued, removing those isolates from the pool. If multi spore inoculations resulted in batches whose concentration ranged from 1 to 6 and each value was equal in probability, then we would find the average concentration to 3.5. I think you agree with this last sentence, I just had to say it for clarity.

Quote:

When I say isolate, for some reason people seem to interperate it as though I am talking about comparing one isolate to another isolate. I am talking about comparing the entire population of isolates (from a sample) to another entire population of isolates (from a sample).



I never interpreted this the former, only the latter sense. I think people know what you're saying.

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Re: Potency Project [Re: Necco]
    #11804083 - 01/10/10 06:53 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Man, that was a LOT of reading just to catch up.

I like the direction this is heading although I do see some potential pitfalls. The more scientific this experiment becomes, the more difficult it becomes for LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE to participate. If we want to get community involvement in this project, we may have to keep it as simple as possible... at least for starters. Of course, simplicity reduces accuracy.

I've been thinking of doing two different studies. A beginner's level study and an advanced study.

Logical Chaos came up with a very nice outline for an advanced (and pretty low cost) study. I do think however, that we can open this thing up to n00bs too... and get two sets of results.

In a nutshell, if the beginners were to save and measure 10% of their grows and do extractions... weigh the extractions and post the results... we'd be able to gather incidental data and come up with some general-ish averages.

Then, the folks who want to be more specific, can participate in Logical's more advanced study... which may actually amount to something real.

Two sets of data, two sets of results.

I was also thinking of a spore giveaway... to get things rolling perhaps... give people incentive to post their findings ya' know? "Here's your spores, they came from a monotub of B+ that was ordered from Sporeworks, now test 'em!"

This way, we could better track what cube is currently being tested. We'd also have the chance to see how different each participant's fruits look when compared to the other grows.


--------------------
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Edited by Rose (01/10/10 08:28 PM)

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
    #11804985 - 01/10/10 09:25 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Yeah, it IS a lot of reading...

I'm glad you liked my outline Cervantes...took awhile to type it up.

After I read your comment about how there should be "a beginner's level study and an advanced study", I thought: That's a great idea!

So, we should do 2 separate studies, one that can include newbies who are new to cultivation, which is good because we could get A LOT of data from all over the Shroomery community, making the averages more consistent (as long as these newbies follow the standardized growing/weighing/recording parameters we make). And two, we can do a more in-depth dare I say, a more "direct" and precise analysis of the actual potency of PE compared to other strains.

That way, anyone can participate! But, I think we should make some rules for the newbies (and advanced growers): we all have to agree upon and follow the same parameters we set in place. We can't have one person doing one method while another grower does something completely different. To control for that, I say we make it "mandatory" (is that the right word?) that whoever participates in this study has to take detailed notes of everything they did during their grow, such as how much water they used for the substrate, what the substrate they used and how much, how much spore solution they put into each jar, what kinds of temps/humidity/light levels did their FC have, etc, etc.

Also, after I read your comments, I made some important revisions on my original post for things that were confusing or which needed further explanation. which I edited into my original outline and again here....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(4) Weighing: Just the Powder
Using a precise (0.01g resolution or better), accurate scale, under the same ambient conditions to control for moisture affecting the weigh of the "dried" samples. There could be 2 different methods to do this, Simple and Advanced.
The Simple method would consist of taking all the dried mushrooms from 1 flush and powdering them in a blender, then weighing the TOTAL amount of dry yield collected from that strain and flush.
The Advanced method would be to weigh each dried mushroom collected from the flush independent of each other, than record those values. After that, those individual mushroom weights would be total up and then used in the "Statistical Analysis" phase, which is really just using math with data sets.

(5) (***For Advanced Study***) Statistical Analysis of the mushroom's dry weight: For everyone who was performing the Advanced Method of weighing discussed above, all their data values for each mushroom who be organized from lightest to heaviest, then the Median value would be found. This would give a pretty good value of the "average" weight of a mushroom. Not useful for determining potency directly, but it could provide interesting results (ex: PE fruits are heavier than B+ fruits, on average).

(6A) (***For Advanced Study***) Extraction of Psychoactive Chemicals from Powdered Yield
First of all, the extraction(s) of the psychoactive chemicals should be simple, cheap, easy-to-find materials. Since no solvent can extract all psychoactive chemicals simultaneously, multiple extractions using different chemicals must be done. Then, once the simplest and cheapest extractions are determined, rules must be define to standardize it so it gives good data results.
- After each psychoactive chemical is extracted, each of the 3 chemicals should be completed dried (in the same humidity levels for everyone in this study) and then weighed on a precise, accurate scaled (like discussed above). Then, the weight of each chemical should be recorded and then add to a community-wide data set explained below... 

(6B)
(***For Advanced Method***) Statistical Analysis of the extracted psychoactive components from powdered flush (the total mixture)
From everyone who participates in the "extraction of active chemicals" part of the experiment, we could gather everyone's "Total Weight of Active chemicals" for their respective strain (PE or the Control), and then take the Median of those data values, and use that as our "average weight of active chemicals in X strain". This statistical analysis will have to be done for each of the 3 psychoactive chemicals: Psilocybin, Psilocin, and Baeocystin. The specific chemical extracted (since all 3 cannot be extracted with one solvent) have to be put into separate data sets. Once the data sets are made for each of the 3 chemicals mentioned, the median of each chemical's data set would be taken, which would represent the "average amount" for the given strain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had some ideas for "standardizing the substrate", so that we can conduct this experiment nation-wide, but likely not world-wide.

For Substrate:

Should be simple, cheap, easy to get, and easy to sterilize/pasteurize. The best substrate for that would be the tried and true, PF Tek and Brown Rice Flour. Also, it would be best if it was a store brand, because companies which makes foods have quality control standards at their factories to make sure that their product is consistent for every product they make. This is true for any large food manufacture company, fast-food restaurant, automobile service company, etc.
    If we simply said "use organic brown rice from the bulk section, then grind it up.", we don't know the source of the rice. I'll admit, I'm not sure how big a difference in potency the fruits will have if the brown rice was grown in X country and not Y country, or the difference between fresh rice and pre-ground store rice and how that affects potency, but any method that controls for variables is good for any scientific study.
One major advantage of Brown Rice Flour to other substrates for this study is that you don't need a PC (Pressure Cooker). That means, just about any grower can be in this study, and not just the advanced ones.

For Weighing:
This might be the hardest to standardize for everyone, because some growers might already have scales, and wouldn't be interested in buying a scale just for a study. I for one, just ordered a digital scale (hopefully coming this week), and I have no idea how accurate it is. Which is another problem, knowing the accuracy of each scale that people use is going to have to be an assumption that its accurate. To make sure the scales of participants in the study have accurate scale, they could do The Coin Test.

Testing a Scale's Accuracy: The Coin Test
For this test, 20 nickles are used because 20 nickles = 100 grams, or 1 cent per gram. First, 20 brand-new clean nickle coins are to be collected from a bank. If that can't be done, they could get 20 of the cleanest nickles they can find, and then put them in a hydrogen peroxide bath to clean them off of dirt and such. Then, 10-20 nickles are put on the scale (depending on its max, 20 nickles = 100grams) and weighed. If the value is "on the money", the scale is good. If its off by "a lot", say a couple grams, the scale cannot be used or has to be calibrated so it can be used.

I think the standard for scales used should be it is a Digital Scale, and it has a resolution of at least 0.01 grams. They are relatively cheap, and widely-available.

Or, we could go for a cheap analog scale anyone could buy. For example, I have seen a slide scale (the ones that use a counterweight) at AWS that's like $7 (w/o shipping) and has a resolution of 0.05 grams. We could do that, and have everyone in the study buy one of those (if they do not already own an accurate, 0.01 gram-precise scale), and use it for all their scaling needs. That should standardize that part of the experiment quite well, I think.

What do you guys think? Do these outlines sound probable and reasonable?

Let me know your opinions.

Methods for Madness
~ LogicaL Chaos ~

Edited by LogicaL Chaos (01/11/10 12:57 AM)

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Re: Potency Project [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #11806471 - 01/11/10 05:52 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

taking all the dried mushrooms from 1 flush



I've seen a couple of posts questioning whether it's possible to grind an entire flush evenly- but why do we need such a big flush?
Why can't we do this on some cakes?
The question isn't about yield, it's about potency.


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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11806612 - 01/11/10 07:28 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

This is a great thread, and I wish I had any of the strains spoken about going right now so I could participate. 

One thing I noticed that LogicalChaos' method is missing an ever important factor, as was mentioned by fundamentalchair:  The strains should not just be isolated to only one isolation, every single possible isolate for a given strain should be taken and grown out, and then each isolate extracted, and then the results should be averaged out for the final result of that strain.  If you did that for every different strain, while it would take a lot longer than just doing one isolate or multispore for each strain, it would definitely yield more consistent and scientific results.  I think that should be the advanced method, while the beginner method should be just doing multispore, whether it's one multispore grow for each strain, or multiple multispore grows per strain.

Also, to reinforce something else F.C. said, although I agree that weighing each individual mushroom and averaging out the results would be interesting, I don't see why you would pursue doing it for this experiment, it doesn't really seem relevant.  All that would have to be done is pick a weight that you would use for each extraction, and stick to it.

I'll definitely be staying tuned for the results if anyone ends up trying this out in some capacity, which I hope they do.

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Re: Potency Project [Re: libertaire]
    #11806618 - 01/11/10 07:33 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

every single possible isolate for a given strain should be taken and grown out



That's equivalent to a multispore grow. Think about it.


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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11806639 - 01/11/10 07:48 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Not necessarily, because from what I understand, in multispore a single genetics usually becomes dominant.  I may be mistaken in this assumption, but from what I understood, there was always less agressive substrains that get wiped out or are a lot less present due to more agressive substrains getting a better foothold.  Also, it would be useful and interesting to be able to see exactly what substrains are present in a given strain, and I think it would also give a more accurate picture than just doing a ms and averaging it out somehow.

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Re: Potency Project [Re: libertaire]
    #11806655 - 01/11/10 07:57 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Also, it would be useful and interesting to be able to see exactly what substrains are present in a given strain,




Completely agree with this part.
RR was talking yesterday(?) about how 'uneven flushing' is ofter separate substrains within a tub fruiting at slightly different times.
And I got to thinking about how you could get (for example) an early fruiting strain, a potent strain, and a prolific flushing strain-
all by isolating fruits from one tub, separated from each other by time.

But it's not relevant to the primary question posed in this thread.
The question is about overall perceptions of average grows- not every possible potential isolate.


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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11806686 - 01/11/10 08:08 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

You're still missing my point though.  What I'm saying is that the only way to get an accurate idea of what an average grow will yield for a given strain in terms of potency is to make sure that one substrain is not dominant to other substrains.  The reason this is important is because who knows when by the luck of the draw that multispore is, the next time you inoculate with the same set of genetics, a substrain that was previously not so dominant but had higher or lower potency than the previously dominant substrain is now dominant this time around, and thus will give different results of potency this time than it did the first.  By isolating every substrain, you would be effectively taking into account what all of the possibilities are and objectively weighing them at an equal amount per possibility, as opposed to with one possibility more dominant this time than it might be the next.

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