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Offlineuniboner
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 173
Loc: TO
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
critical temperatures for alkaloids.
    #1178783 - 12/30/02 05:28 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

hi.
my question may have been already answered on the forum somewhere, i looked, but the search was unable to find anything. so sorry in advance if this is a repeat.
just wondering at which temperatures the various alkaloids in our mushroom friends start to break down.
details on temperature facilitated breakdown of psilocin, psilocybin, and baeocystine is basically what i'm after.
i understand that there are other factors involved in alkaloid breakdown, but temperature details are all i'm after at this point.

peace and thank you,
uniboner



--------------------
sleep is for the weak.


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OfflineLoop_Theorist
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Registered: 04/22/02
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Re: critical temperatures for alkaloids. [Re: uniboner]
    #1178964 - 12/30/02 07:17 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

NAME : Psilocybin
CHEMICAL NAME : 3-[2-(Dimethylamino)ethyl]-1H-indol-4-ol dihydrogen phosphate ester
ALTERNATE CHEMICAL NAMES : O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine; Indocybin
CHEMICAL FORMULA C12H17N2O4P
MOLECULAR WEIGHT 284.25
MELTING POINT 220-228? C (Crystals from boiling water)
MELTING POINT 185-195? C (Crystals from methanol)
pH 5.2 (in 50% aq ethanol)
LD50 285 mg/kg i.v.(mice)
LD50 280 mg/kg i.v. (rats)
LD50 12.5 mg/kg i.v.(rabbits)
-------------------------------------------------------

NAME : Psilocin
CHEMICAL NAME : 3-[2-(Dimethylamino)ethyl]-1H-indol-4-ol
ALTERNATE CHEMICAL NAMES : 4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine; psilocyn
CHEMICAL FORMULA C12H16N2O
MOLECULAR WEIGHT 204.27
MELTING POINT 173-176? C (plates from methanol)
--------------------------------------------------------

NAME : Baeocystin
CHEMICAL NAME : 3-[2-(methylamino)ethyl]-1H-indol-4-ol dihydrogen phosphate ester
ALTERNATE CHEMICAL NAMES : desmethyl psilocybine; 4-phosphoryloxy-N-methyltryptamine; baeocystin
CHEMICAL FORMULA C11H15N2O4P
MOLECULAR WEIGHT 270.28
MELTING POINT 254-258? C (crystals from methanol)

Hope that helps.

-Loop




--------------------
Pack-tight, midnight, ship it to tha coast.
Some take tha plane, you, you on tha boat,
right beside tha money which right beside tha coke
Passin by tha coastgaurd, right under their nose.

To the US-HEY where anyone can getny, MIA all the way to New Your city, you a twenty now....


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Offlineuniboner
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 173
Loc: TO
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: critical temperatures for alkaloids. [Re: Loop_Theorist]
    #1181113 - 12/31/02 05:49 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Cool! Thanks!
I was looking for information with regards to at which temperatures the alkaloids no longer had the same effect on one who had consumed said alkaloids.
But the info you put up will come in handy with some other thoughts.

I know that oxidation and high heat have a negative impact on mushroom potency. Just wanted to know if there was any info published, documented, even held as an unproven understanding or hypothesis, as to what temperature would/could cause said harm.

But thank you very very much for your input here.
It is appreciated.

peace and thank you,
uniboner


--------------------
sleep is for the weak.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
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Re: critical temperatures for alkaloids. [Re: uniboner]
    #1187365 - 01/03/03 11:03 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Many people steep shrooms in near boiliing water for up to an hour and report no loss in potency. Stamets in PMOTW says to not let your shrooms get over 120 deg during drying to avoid loss in potency. So I guess as with so many other things in our hobby, YMMV.

Personallly I think it depends a lot on what excactly you're dealing with. Different species and different strains have different ratios of actives. Intact fruitbodies maintain potency better than ground fruitbodies, likely to protective action of cell walls. At that, different species or even strains may store actives in different places which could affect vulnerability to heat or air.

In other words, no body has the time or money to do difinitive tests for this kinda thing. IME, why push it? Unless you have a particular experiment in mind, Just keep dried fruit sealed airtight in a dark freezer. remove shortly before eating. For now we must rely on general theories, not specific temps. or methods. Just dry them as fast and cool as you can, seal them as airtight as you can, store them as dark and as cool as you can, and ingest as soon as possible.

Unless of course you're working on some experiment?


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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OfflineLoop_Theorist
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Registered: 04/22/02
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Re: critical temperatures for alkaloids. [Re: uniboner]
    #1187741 - 01/03/03 01:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Well I personally plan to do an extraction down to (as close as I can achive in a home lab) pure crystal.  I even have a 3rd year chem student to assist me :laugh:


-Loop


--------------------
Pack-tight, midnight, ship it to tha coast.
Some take tha plane, you, you on tha boat,
right beside tha money which right beside tha coke
Passin by tha coastgaurd, right under their nose.

To the US-HEY where anyone can getny, MIA all the way to New Your city, you a twenty now....


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Offlineuniboner
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 173
Loc: TO
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: critical temperatures for alkaloids. [Re: Loop_Theorist]
    #4022682 - 04/06/05 07:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

so did you have any luck with that extraction?
been waiting a few years for a status update :wink:

peas,


--------------------
sleep is for the weak.


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InvisibleArsey
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 39
Loc: location location locatio...
Re: critical temperatures for alkaloids. [Re: uniboner]
    #4081800 - 04/21/05 05:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Looks like we're going on a half decade of wait here.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: critical temperatures for alkaloids. [Re: Arsey]
    #4083732 - 04/22/05 03:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'll be going for the crystal today. You should have my results in less than 12 hours : )


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OfflineAbermelin
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Registered: 03/22/05
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Re: critical temperatures for alkaloids. [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4084708 - 04/22/05 01:27 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

isnt psilocin an unstable molecule? seems like you would lose alot of product by extracting.


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