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OfflineImaginingEmotions
SkyjumpingDude


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 1,489
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Potency Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11787249 - 01/07/10 11:51 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
...but the biggest problem with that is our average member here gets one or two flushes, gets the shit scared out of him, and goes on to the next hobby without ever mastering this one... :shrug:
RR




Shit scared out of them?  scared of being arrested or tripped way too hard?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: ImaginingEmotions]
    #11787316 - 01/08/10 12:05 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

ImaginingEmotions said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
...but the biggest problem with that is our average member here gets one or two flushes, gets the shit scared out of him, and goes on to the next hobby without ever mastering this one... :shrug:
RR




Shit scared out of them?  scared of being arrested or tripped way too hard?




Grower's guilt is a too tough a burden for many to handle. RR knows what he is talking about. I understand completely.


--------------------
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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: SillyBilly]
    #11787322 - 01/08/10 12:07 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

SillyBilly said:
I would love to test people with the placebo idea on PE like I have with PR. I am pretty sure they wouldn't know the difference from looking at the two without knowing to ask.




I suspect you are right. Still, I want to see some solid numbers.


--------------------
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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: ImaginingEmotions]
    #11787457 - 01/08/10 12:46 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

ImaginingEmotions said:

Shit scared out of them?  scared of being arrested or tripped way too hard?




Scared by catching a glimpse of their own soul and freaking out over what they see. 
RR


--------------------
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OfflineImaginingEmotions
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Registered: 11/09/09
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Re: Potency Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11787520 - 01/08/10 01:07 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

RR,  I wanna say I remember you posted in a thread, that if you harvest just before the veil breaks that the potency will be at its max... something like that. Do you remember?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
    #11787529 - 01/08/10 01:10 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

I think a good place to start is standardize the growing conditions, fruiting chamber, substrate, spore source (sponsor), and then growing 2 different strains (like PE and B+) in those indentical conditions. Once the fruits are grown, pick them then do some kind of polar-alcohol extraction just for Psilocybin, of a group of similiar looking fruits, the ones that look like how they are "supposed" to look like. So, for PE, it will look like a penis and not mutant outliers that look like reg. cubenis. Make sure the choosen mushrooms are the same wet weight, trim stems to get the same weight. Since the extraction is a collection of mushrooms from the same "strain", it should be a pretty good average, at least for that flush.

After the extraction, dry the psilocybin crystals completely, then weight them on a precise scale (0.001 grams or more resolution).

If the amounts are the same, do a different extraction process (using the same growing techniques) of the next flush that extracts just psilocin. Weigh the fully-dry crystals on the same scale, and record the results like the extraction for Psilocybin.

And if those 2 values are the same amount, then you can do a subjective potency test. First, weight 2 dry fruits from 2 different strain, PE included, and cut the stem to equal the amounts. Make sure they "look" like classic forms of their respective strains. Then, tell 2 people they are recieving reg. mushrooms with reg. potency by showing them both a regular looking shroom, then prepare a method of eating it so that they won't know how much or what mushroom they got, such as a fruit smoothie.

Then, put PE in one smoothie and the other plain strain in the other identical smoothie. Give the smoothies to the "experimentors" and record which person has the PE smoothie and which person has the basic strain one. Put each person in a plain, white room and then at the end of the trip, ask them about the intensity of the trip.

What do you think, would this work?

Experimental for the Elemental
~ LogicaL Chaos ~


--------------------
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Edited by LogicaL Chaos (01/08/10 01:12 AM)

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InvisibleNecco
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Re: Potency Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11787684 - 01/08/10 02:13 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

NoOneKnowsHowToAct said:
dunno how well this is going to work but i'm doing a small experiment with super easy to find shit as substitutes and some left-over crap that no one wants to eat (verm stuck to stem bases, etc... from a while ago... these days I cut them off after picking). For my acid I'm using lemon juice...




To even come close to precision with an acid/base procedure you would need standardized reagents. Lemons are... hard to standardize. Try to have as few variables as possible (start with pure reagents). Ammonia is preferred to carbonate because of its solubility and lesser effect on osmolality/simpler ion chemistry. Carbonate will form a multi-tiered buffer system.


Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I've had bunk PE too, but my PE isolates produce the same quality, flush after flush, year after year.  It's as simple as strain isolation, but the biggest problem with that is our average member here gets one or two flushes, gets the shit scared out of him, and goes on to the next hobby without ever mastering this one.  Those who stick around for the love of fungi, tend to get tired of tripping after a few years and don't really care. :shrug:
RR




Too true.

I don't know what my deal is, I still have mushrooms left over from my first harvest ever, yet here I am.

Anyway, for those of you who have selected for potent isolates, do you prefer to:
-isolate from spore or clone, then grow isolate, then test the harvest, or
-clone tissue, eat rest of cloned mushroom to gauge potency and then grow?

<how come I feel stupid for asking this>

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Invisiblewhyblameus
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Re: Potency Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11787751 - 01/08/10 02:56 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

ImaginingEmotions said:

Shit scared out of them?  scared of being arrested or tripped way too hard?




Scared by catching a glimpse of their own soul and freaking out over what they see. 
RR



fuck thats what kept me growing them.:crazy2::biggrin:


--------------------
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OfflineImaginingEmotions
SkyjumpingDude


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 1,489
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Potency Project [Re: whyblameus]
    #11787758 - 01/08/10 03:00 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

whyblameus said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

ImaginingEmotions said:

Shit scared out of them?  scared of being arrested or tripped way too hard?




Scared by catching a glimpse of their own soul and freaking out over what they see. 
RR



fuck thats what kept me growing them.:crazy2::biggrin:




Thats what made me want to learn more about the cultivation. LoL

I guess some can handle the intense reality and some just don't want to shed their ego.


--------------------

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OfflineImaginingEmotions
SkyjumpingDude


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 1,489
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Potency Project [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #11787774 - 01/08/10 03:15 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I think a good place to start is standardize the growing conditions, fruiting chamber, substrate, spore source (sponsor), and then growing 2 different strains (like PE and B+) in those indentical conditions. Once the fruits are grown, pick them then do some kind of polar-alcohol extraction just for Psilocybin, of a group of similiar looking fruits, the ones that look like how they are "supposed" to look like. So, for PE, it will look like a penis and not mutant outliers that look like reg. cubenis. Make sure the choosen mushrooms are the same wet weight, trim stems to get the same weight. Since the extraction is a collection of mushrooms from the same "strain", it should be a pretty good average, at least for that flush.

After the extraction, dry the psilocybin crystals completely, then weight them on a precise scale (0.001 grams or more resolution).

If the amounts are the same, do a different extraction process (using the same growing techniques) of the next flush that extracts just psilocin. Weigh the fully-dry crystals on the same scale, and record the results like the extraction for Psilocybin.

And if those 2 values are the same amount, then you can do a subjective potency test. First, weight 2 dry fruits from 2 different strain, PE included, and cut the stem to equal the amounts. Make sure they "look" like classic forms of their respective strains. Then, tell 2 people they are recieving reg. mushrooms with reg. potency by showing them both a regular looking shroom, then prepare a method of eating it so that they won't know how much or what mushroom they got, such as a fruit smoothie.

Then, put PE in one smoothie and the other plain strain in the other identical smoothie. Give the smoothies to the "experimentors" and record which person has the PE smoothie and which person has the basic strain one. Put each person in a plain, white room and then at the end of the trip, ask them about the intensity of the trip.

What do you think, would this work?

Experimental for the Elemental
~ LogicaL Chaos ~




Even if they were both put into white rooms, they still are not the same person. There are so many variables that would need to be controlled in an experiment like this and it would be ridiculous, IMO, to spend a bunch of time just to find out the the PE strain is 5% stronger than any other cube. It wouldn't be that big of a deal to consume an extra .2-.5 grams of mushrooms.

If people can contest that they have had extreme differences in potency, it would be well known to begin with and im pretty sure people would be cultivating that strain more than any other.


--------------------

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InvisibleDanKnugget
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Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,074
Loc: On a boat
Re: Potency Project [Re: ImaginingEmotions]
    #11787864 - 01/08/10 04:24 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

If people can contest that they have had extreme differences in potency, it would be well known to begin with and im pretty sure people would be cultivating that strain more than any other.



It is "well known" or, more appropriately, more widely believed that PE are more potent than average.  The reason people don't cultivate it more widely is because there are not as many spores in circulation, because the strain does not always produce spores, and very rarely prints.


--------------------
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1. School is for people who don't know stuff.
2. Jobs are for losers.
3. Reading is for people with nothing better to do.

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OfflineNoOneKnowsHowToAct
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Registered: 07/23/09
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Necco]
    #11788246 - 01/08/10 08:06 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

mubba said:
To even come close to precision with an acid/base procedure you would need standardized reagents. Lemons are... hard to standardize. Try to have as few variables as possible (start with pure reagents). Ammonia is preferred to carbonate because of its solubility and lesser effect on osmolality/simpler ion chemistry. Carbonate will form a multi-tiered buffer system.




Would dehydrated lime and ammonia be better to use then?


--------------------
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Offlineevildee125
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Re: Potency Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11789044 - 01/08/10 11:34 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

evildee125 said:
we should definitely be testing out substrates.. like ccv vs cv or ccv vs hpoo




It's been done thousands of times before.  Every substrate known has produced awesome fruits and bunk fruits, sometimes on the same flush.  I ran tests a few years ago on many different substrates, all with the same isolated strain.  Potency, while admittedly subjective, seemed to be the same on all substrates, whether pf cakes, straw, manure, compost, or my favorite substrate of all, a combination of everything.

It's really a moot point for those too lazy to do strain isolation.  We already know that growing from multispore inoculation is like a roll of the dice. . .a dice with billions of sides, that is.  I've had bunk PE too, but my PE isolates produce the same quality, flush after flush, year after year.  It's as simple as strain isolation, but the biggest problem with that is our average member here gets one or two flushes, gets the shit scared out of him, and goes on to the next hobby without ever mastering this one.  Those who stick around for the love of fungi, tend to get tired of tripping after a few years and don't really care. :shrug:
RR




yes ive been here long enough to see you and others say this many times.. i was thinking more along the lines of the importance of additives, for instance, that reportedly balance lack of nutrients.. and how levels of nitrogen correlate to potency.. from what ive seen.. the additives dont really seem all that necessary.. but considering that vermiculite was considered inert and now you state repeatedly that it provides micronutrients, just engages me to wanna know.. through experiment, what all of the mediums and additives we use play.. im hoping you know what im trying to get at.. im sort of in a rush between classes.. either way.. i think at the very least this experiment should be entertaining.. i dont live in the pnw.. so what i can grow is limited to tropical species.. gotta get my kicks some how:shrug:


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Offlinetalkingwalnut
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Re: Potency Project [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11789142 - 01/08/10 11:58 AM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

ImaginingEmotions said:

Shit scared out of them?  scared of being arrested or tripped way too hard?




Scared by catching a glimpse of their own soul and freaking out over what they see. 
RR




What's bad is I can admit I got a little freaked out when I hit ego loss catching that glimpse of the soul.

I never ever came that close to doing that until I dosed PE
Now with some practice I've learn to love that part of the trip

On a side note

I've had 1 bad flush potency wise of PE out of 5 or 6 MS grows.

And it was the mutants that look like garlic balls.

The thing that is weird for me with PE it's always pretty much consistent potency wise and that's saying a lot considering these were MS grows.

I got an Isolate of PE that is a couple of weeks away from being done.

For me the PE trip is completely different then any strain I've ever done


--------------------

Edited by talkingwalnut (01/08/10 12:06 PM)

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Offlineevildee125
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Re: Potency Project [Re: talkingwalnut]
    #11789604 - 01/08/10 01:16 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

"but the biggest problem with that is our average member here gets one or two flushes, gets the shit scared out of him, and goes on to the next hobby without ever mastering this one.  Those who stick around for the love of fungi, tend to get tired of tripping after a few years and don't really care. :shrug:"

not sure why.. but i kinda have a hard time picturing rr tripping on shrooms :shrug:


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If you build an idiot-proof device, someone will build a better idiot.

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OfflineSillyBilly
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Re: Potency Project [Re: talkingwalnut]
    #11789617 - 01/08/10 01:17 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Can someone please tell me if the concentration of actives is higher in certain parts of the mushroom?
Stems, Cap, different parts of the stipe, different parts of the cap, etc.


--------------------
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    You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Potency Project [Re: evildee125]
    #11789640 - 01/08/10 01:20 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

those who stick around for the love of fungi, tend to get tired of tripping after a few years and don't really care.




I didn't trip in 2009, though I nibbled a few sclerotia to taste them. Maybe in 2010.
But I'm still interested enough to try growing some PE and if I do, I'll eat a gram and see what I think.
And before people start in with "controls, precision, etc"- I know what a gram of shrooms feels like, guys.

Quote:

Can someone please tell me if the concentration of actives is higher in certain parts of the mushroom?
Stems, Cap, different parts of the stipe, different parts of the cap, etc.



Some tests have shown some differences, but it's not consistent and it's not enough to matter. I think stems are easier to eat, personally.


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InvisiblePolk_Audio3
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11789656 - 01/08/10 01:23 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

B+ were the first mushrooms I cultivated the potency was very good.
PE to me was just like another cube trip. "Wild" cubes to me are by far
amazing.


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Offlineevildee125
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Polk_Audio3]
    #11789707 - 01/08/10 01:29 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

PolkAudio2 said:
B+ were the first mushrooms I cultivated the potency was very good.
PE to me was just like another cube trip. "Wild" cubes to me are by far
amazing.



wild collected is not something readily found in my area.. there are but a few sources of shrooms period.. and guess who's one of them :smile:

doc_t i didnt trip much in the latter part of 09.. 2010 is already shapin up to be a sort of revival..


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OfflineImaginingEmotions
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Posts: 1,489
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Potency Project [Re: talkingwalnut]
    #11789723 - 01/08/10 01:31 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

DanKnugget said:
Quote:

If people can contest that they have had extreme differences in potency, it would be well known to begin with and im pretty sure people would be cultivating that strain more than any other.



It is "well known" or, more appropriately, more widely believed that PE are more potent than average.  The reason people don't cultivate it more widely is because there are not as many spores in circulation, because the strain does not always produce spores, and very rarely prints.




From a earlier post of mine....
Quote:

ImaginingEmotions said:
On a side note, when researching into motorcycles before I bought mine I was reading on CBR1000's on the 1000rr.net forum. There was people always asking about how the 2008 models smoked and burned oil and why it happened. Many people, even employees from honda, stated that it was just a big rumor. Even after they said that, noobs would come on the forums and keep asking about this rumor still believing it was real.

^^^The case of the B  Bunk I feel is just like another one of those rumors.... Yeah, you can get a brand new bike to smoke and burn oil if you don't let it warm up before you ride it or snap throttle to redline... and I bet if your grow conditions were less then adequate I think you might be just making your mushies bunk all on your own.




IMO, PE just may be another one of those cases where a someone dosed a little much adn didn't realize it, then a rumor is started and then also a possible placebo effect may have taken place for those who truly believe its more potent.

Plus, we wouldn't be having this conversation about the potency of PE if it was widely know that it is a more potent strain. The spores may be hard to come by, but if It was really that much better, I am sure there are many cultivators out there that would dedicate their time to making as many prints as possible so it would be more widely available it would just come at a higher price.


Quote:

talkingwalnut said:
I never ever came that close to doing that until I dosed PE
N




I've hit that point a couple times, but it wasn't on PE and it wasn't even that big of doses either, i think like 2 grams or less...

I've dosed from many different sources and the effects vary. I have noticed though that if the stalk is not hollow when dry is when i get the most intense effects.


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