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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 71,179
Loc: The Inexpressible...
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Quote:
libertaire said: One other thing that just came to mind, well not really to my mind, but anonjon's mind:
We should develop a standardized test that could be used in our bio-assays to tell how hard someone is tripping. I don't think the 1-5 standard will be enough to get an accurate picture. Whatever it is, it should be something that we can print out or create on our own, but it should be something that we can bring to where the given test subject is tripping. Like anonjon said, maybe some optical illusions, or pictures that look pretty normal to the average person, but to the tripping person would look out of this world. Also, maybe some sort of conversational things could be added that would gauge what a person is thinking/feeling at a particular time. Like for instance, at 30 minutes after ingestion, the subject is asked how they feel, if they see/feel/hear anything strange, etc., and then asked the same set of questions an hour later, and then several hours later. Whatever it is, we should agree on it and standardize it, so that our tests are as similar as possible. Thoughts?
Whoa, I've been thinking of the same Standardized questionaire too! But I never posted here because I didn't have a clear outline. One of things mentioned by anonjon's that I considered to be useful was the "Pictures that look pretty normal". I had that same idea! Crazy how we trippers think alike...
But I think using optical illusions would be confusing, because after all, they are already trippy, and gauging how the mushrooms affected their perception on that optical illusion will be hard to deterimine.
So...for the pictures, I think we should have color photos of just typical simple stuff, like a farmhouse or a picture of the park, or wildlife. Simple, natural stuff. Also, since mushrooms make you more "in tuned" with nature, maybe some questions like "while looking at the forest picture, how does it make you feel?". Maybe some art, as long as its not trippy in any way. Also, I think it would be really interesting if we used those ink blots that psychiratics use. So, we would show the person about the trip the photo when they are 100% sober, ask them what they see, then show it to them 1 hour after ingestion, near the peak, and ask the same question. Although, this might contradict my previous claim that we should not use "optical illusions", because in a way, it is an optical illusion.
Besides photots, I think we should test every sense.
Here's some examples for testing the 5 senses.
1) Sight - being disussed: standardize non-trippy photos of natural, simple things like a fire hydrant or complex things like a forest.
2) Sound - Use a simple song, such as a classical piano or violin song. One that only has a few instruments playing at once would be best. A track that's too complex maybe hard to hear everything on even a second try. And of course, no trippy music because that would just make things more complex. Ex: Fur Elise by Beethoven.
3) Touch - This one would be fun. I read back on Erowid on "Trippy toys" and one of them was really simple and cheap. It was a combonation of corn meal and water, and you put your hand in it and swquish/squeeze it, and its suppose to feel unworldy on a psychedelic. We could do this sober/tripping and have the person right down what they feel.
4) Smell - For this one, I was thinking of some cheap candles you can buy at the store. Also, any kind of colone or perfume would work. Or, you could smell some herb and describe how it smells, since herb is almost always potent with a scent.
5) Taste - I'm thinking fruits or vegi's because they are simple in taste and cheap to buy/grow. Coffee wouldn't be a good choice because of the caffeine (effecting the trip) and that coffee has a complex taste. It would have to be before and during tripping just like the other senses. Also, tasty foods that are commerical-made already (ex: Hot Pockets) would make this taste test more "standardized" because the foods have been standardized.
Set-of-mind: Like you already mentioned, questions about your current state-of-mind would be important. Such questions such as: "What are you thinking about right now?" and "Does you thinking right now feel fast or slow?" for when they are tripping and sober. Another good one would be "What emotion do you feel right now?". All good things, even thou this bio-assay might get pretty
We should also try to standardize tolerances and other drug interactions. So for psychedelic tolerance, the critia should be something like "It must be at least 2 weeks since you have taken ANY psychedelic, including but not limited to weed, LSD, mescaline, Morning glories, mushrooms, etc, etc.". Also, one of the question on the "bioassy experience form" should be "When was the last time you ate mushrooms?" and "When was the last time you took a psychedelic?" with the answer being anything *older than* 2 weeks in the past.
What do you think? I myself think I'm going to start typing a Word document with a questionaire and bioassay criteria/guidelines form for this project.
Sound good?
?
We're gettin' closer ~ LogicaL Chaos ~
-------------------- "The beginnings of unlimited energy will likely emerge around 2024 and will become a worldwide manifestation by 2040. Once unlimited energy is established, the possibilities will be endless - your progressive movement will accelerate to astronomical heights." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin
PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS (PDF Download) - 312 pages! | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms Canned Computer Duster SAB Tek π¨βπ¬ | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits | R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. πππ
  Oregon Eclipse Festival 2017 :: Aug 19th - 21st :: Pure Paradise   Very Effective LSA Extraction Tek | π§ Advanced Cold Water LSA Extraction Method π§ |  Mescajuana - Mescaline with Marijuana | DMT Dab Bongs | UFO Technology! Shpongle
     
Edited by LogicaL Chaos (01/20/10 08:16 PM)
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libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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I like all of those ideas. There's some documents out there already that psychologists have used in the past for psychedelic therapy, so perhaps we can check those out before we make anything concrete. I have it saved on my computer, I'll definitely read it all the way through. I can post it up if you want.
One other thing I remembered that we should standardize is how much food that person has eaten that day. I've heard of people barely tripping because they ate a full meal right before they at the shrooms. So ideally, our test subjects should not eat very much that day, a light breakfast and that's it.
We're definitely getting closer, I agree.
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moon_glue
Orwell's Post9/11 Era



Registered: 01/20/07
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Loc: Earth, today...
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i've had mind blowing batches of PE and some pretty regular ones.
1.5 blew each put me and several other old head ravers into the deepest psychadelic experience of our lives.
i ate 3 grams once that took me even farther. and was such a messed up trip i didnt do them again for allmost two years.
T.C. and G.T. have yet to produce anything similar though
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Cloneufc
Master Exploder!



Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 1,237
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Potency Project [Re: moon_glue]
#11920163 - 01/28/10 07:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why not send several sub-strains to a lab to measure? PE,GT,TX,Z,Pesa ect..ect.. It would only cost $100 bucks or so.
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SenorGrande
Stranger

Registered: 01/22/10
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Cloneufc]
#11920176 - 01/28/10 07:27 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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er, wouldn't that be illegal(er)?
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Necco
Thread Killer


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 608
Loc: west of a white house
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Cloneufc]
#11920257 - 01/28/10 07:41 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cloneufc said: Why not send several sub-strains to a lab to measure? PE,GT,TX,Z,Pesa ect..ect.. It would only cost $100 bucks or so.
Give me a frickin' address. I tried looking for such a place and didn't have great luck. I don't care if it costs $200 a sample and $50 to ship it across the world, just gimme results!
I'm sure I'm not the only shroomery member with money who'd love to send his shit off for some real results. How awesome would that be, to have a standardized batch for the first time in your life?
Edited by Necco (01/28/10 07:47 PM)
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HUBSonDUBS



Registered: 09/01/05
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Necco]
#11920770 - 01/28/10 09:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'll tell you right now, ive grown many strains, PE is something else like woa, its just has an amazing potency compared to any other cube ive grown.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,530
Loc: Mod not God
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Necco]
#11922310 - 01/29/10 03:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Necco said:
Quote:
Cloneufc said: Why not send several sub-strains to a lab to measure? PE,GT,TX,Z,Pesa ect..ect.. It would only cost $100 bucks or so.
Give me a frickin' address. I tried looking for such a place and didn't have great luck. I don't care if it costs $200 a sample and $50 to ship it across the world, just gimme results!
I'm sure I'm not the only shroomery member with money who'd love to send his shit off for some real results. How awesome would that be, to have a standardized batch for the first time in your life?
I'd be your best friend.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
#11923566 - 01/29/10 11:20 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
Necco said:
Quote:
Cloneufc said: Why not send several sub-strains to a lab to measure? PE,GT,TX,Z,Pesa ect..ect.. It would only cost $100 bucks or so.
Give me a frickin' address. I tried looking for such a place and didn't have great luck. I don't care if it costs $200 a sample and $50 to ship it across the world, just gimme results!
I'm sure I'm not the only shroomery member with money who'd love to send his shit off for some real results. How awesome would that be, to have a standardized batch for the first time in your life?
I'd be your best friend.
I'd be willing to donate to that cause if we could find a place that is willing to test for an illegal substance without alerting the DEA. Good luck finding a place like that though.
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libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
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So I was thinking. I was listening to this interview on wnyc about science and democracy, and he mentioned something that caught my attention. Something to the effect of the fact that the scientific community is only effective because there is a large number of people critiquing and reenacting experiments. However, it seems here that we have only a handful of people who are involved. How would you guys feel about making this a sort of a "Pan-OMC" project, if you will? That is, posting links to this thread, and starting discussions, and hopefully experiments on any other mushroom cultivation forums that people frequent? Whadya think?
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,530
Loc: Mod not God
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Great idea!
Nobody here has come up with a simple way to complete this project. Give the project to the OMC!
This work NEEDS to be done, or noobs will forever be looking for a super-strain.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Cloneufc
Master Exploder!



Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 1,237
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
#12097951 - 02/25/10 07:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I could make a super strain if I could measure psilocybin and psilocin. I'd do a multi spore grow and take the most potent one. Then use that print to make another multi spore grow and pick the most potent one out of that grow, making sure its more potent than the P1 grow. Then take the most potent one from the F2 grow , making sure its more potent than the F1 grow. If you keep repeating this you'll end up with a very potent sub strain.
All costs aside, without sending it to a lab,how can we measure psilocybin and psilocin accurately? What would be the best equipment to do this with? You can buy used working equipment. Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry?
I'd be willing to spend up to $5000 dollars for a machine to measure psilocybin and psilocin.
Edited by Cloneufc (02/25/10 07:49 PM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Cloneufc]
#12098027 - 02/25/10 07:53 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cloneufc said: Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry?
I'd be willing to spend up to $5000 dollars for a machine to measure psilocybin and psilocin.
ebay.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Cloneufc
Master Exploder!



Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 1,237
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
#12098092 - 02/25/10 08:01 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Im asking what is the best machine to use for measurements?
I hate ebay, everything I buy off of there is either stolen or has something wrong with it.
This web site has some good equipment.
http://www.kitmondo.com/SearchResult.aspx?searchText=Gas%20chromatography&Cat=102
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Cloneufc]
#12098108 - 02/25/10 08:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, GCMS would do the job.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 71,179
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 3 hours, 18 minutes
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Cloneufc]
#12098122 - 02/25/10 08:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Are you serious Cloneufc? You would pay $5000 just to measure potency-concentrations in mushrooms?
If so, a Mass Spectrometry machine would be the best. If there is a University near your area, there maybe some used ones for sale: you'd have to ask the Chemistry/Biology department....Other than that, online websites would work, but the shipping costs would be outrageous (they are big and heavy)!
If so, I think we should start this project right when Cloneufc buys a mass-spectrometry machine. As long as you just don't just eat all our samples of the PE and a Control (any cube really) that we grew. I hope that's not your plan.
>>> This project has been dead awhile, and without any sort of leader, well-defined time-table, or project outline, I don't see it going anywhere.
Is anyone willing to dedicate lots of time, energy and possibility money to this project in order to get it implimented?
In case Cloneufc is pulling our leg, is there any other way to measure potency quantifiably besides an expensive Mass/Gas Spectrometry machine or complex chemical extractions? There must be an easier way....
I mean, I did perform my Simple Mycelium Extraction Project not too long ago (see bottom link of my signature), but the resulting "white glue" is far from pure psilocybin/psilocin. But, I bet if it were from pure mushrooms, and maybe some other solvents and chemicals for a more specific extraction, the results might be purer and a better representive of the actual dry weight of the actives, which is an indirect way of measuring potency without a MS machine. But I can't be sure if its actually accurate.....
Will this Project Ever Get Done? ~ LogicaL Chaos ~
-------------------- "The beginnings of unlimited energy will likely emerge around 2024 and will become a worldwide manifestation by 2040. Once unlimited energy is established, the possibilities will be endless - your progressive movement will accelerate to astronomical heights." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin
PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS (PDF Download) - 312 pages! | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms Canned Computer Duster SAB Tek π¨βπ¬ | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits | R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. πππ
  Oregon Eclipse Festival 2017 :: Aug 19th - 21st :: Pure Paradise   Very Effective LSA Extraction Tek | π§ Advanced Cold Water LSA Extraction Method π§ |  Mescajuana - Mescaline with Marijuana | DMT Dab Bongs | UFO Technology! Shpongle
     
Edited by LogicaL Chaos (02/25/10 08:12 PM)
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Cloneufc
Master Exploder!



Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 1,237
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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No,Im not pulling your leg. Im getting a settlement soon and I have been waiting for it for awhile. It could be several months till I can pay for a machine like that. I said I'd pay no more than 5G's for it. I want to use it to create a new sub strain of cubensis. Wouldnt that be nice to have a strain that puts out roughly 10% psilocybin? I will be focusing on psilocybin production not psilocin. It would be too hard to try and focus on both. It bothers me that MJ has had way more advancements in potency than mushrooms have.
I was going to take on this project myself before I even read this thread. I just thought it was neat that others are interested in this as well. I wont take any samples from people on here but I can give results.
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Necco
Thread Killer


Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 608
Loc: west of a white house
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Cloneufc]
#12123806 - 03/01/10 09:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm guessing that GCMS would not come in at under 5K. Clone, I suggest you read up on chemical journal articles explaining how the compounds are measured in real labs. You may also want to contact labs that measure these compounds to get some insight of how to begin.
If you are trying to get info from forums, try going to sciencemadness or some science/chemical oriented site, but be careful how you word your question.
HPLC with UV-vis would be another piece of equipment to look into, and is probably preferred by commercial labs.
--------------------
"Now ether was substituted for chloroform, and the difference of their phenomena noted, and now some other exhilarant, in the form of an opiate or stimulant, was the instrument of my experiments, until I had run through the whole gamut of queer agents within my reach..." I can do everything!!
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Infea
I forgot my pen...




Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 498
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Necco]
#12123865 - 03/01/10 09:09 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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It could be an open-shroomery based, sponsor and user funded investment. To take place in a "legal" country by a willing and competent person or group of people. I'm sure the shroomery community could raise enough money for the equipment and designate a person/group to do the experiments (on a pro bono basis I would assume). I would send my investment given the proper assurances and competency of the designated study group.
-------------------- Trade List
Click this --> to PM me.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 71,179
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 3 hours, 18 minutes
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Necco]
#12123946 - 03/01/10 09:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Necco said: I'm guessing that GCMS would not come in at under 5K. Clone, I suggest you read up on chemical journal articles explaining how the compounds are measured in real labs. You may also want to contact labs that measure these compounds to get some insight of how to begin.
If you are trying to get info from forums, try going to sciencemadness or some science/chemical oriented site, but be careful how you word your question.
I'd suggest, if you're going to a lab Clone, tell them you are growing and breeding organic Portabello Mushrooms for a business, and you want to measure the concentrations of nutritional chemicals like protien or carbohydrates of your special breds of Portabellos, and you need to know which machine (Gas, Liquid, Thin-layer...) is best for that job.
That should work out pretty good, I think. Sounds pretty legit right?
If you do buy one Clone, you have to let us send you samples thru the mail: this experiment cannot be done by you alone, its too massive. We need a bigger sample set than what one person can grow.
Someday....  ~ LogicaL Chaos ~
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