|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,530
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 7 days, 7 hours
|
|
I don't eaither. Really, PE is PE... but it would be nice to see if there are differences between the Brand Name versions of PE.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
|
LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 71,179
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 3 hours, 18 minutes
|
Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
#11854485 - 01/18/10 05:17 PM (15 years, 1 day ago) |
|
|
I agree with Cervantes, if we grew PE from different Brand Name companies, we would be able to see if one companies PE is signifigantly more (or less) potent than another company's PE "strain". Even just a comparsion of 2 companies would likely give some more insight into the variablilty (or lack of variability) of PE.
But, if we agree to do this, we need to do this with the control as well, and it would probably be best to do it from the companies we bought the PE spores from, just to keep it a little consistent.
>>> I also wanted to tell the participants of this project that I *just* recieved my new digital scale at my door this morning on Martain Luther King Jr. Day (support your local brother). So, for the weighing part of the Beginniger/Advanced part of the Project, I'm now Good to Go! 
I performed the simple and cheap "nickel coin" calibration method on my new digital scale to see how accurate it was.
The Scale
 A Amercian Weigh Scale: Digital. 55gram capacity, 0.01gram resolution. Runs on 2 AAA batteries.
The Steps
1. Found 3 U.S. nickles. 2 were newer 2007 & 2006 models, 1 was an old 1963 model.

>> I used nickels because one nickel weighs 5 grams exactly, or 1 gram per cent. Other coins are not an whole number like nickels are, so I didn't use them. If you plan on using nickels for calibrating your digital scale, make sure they are new. Go to a bank or a store, and ask for new ones. If you own a dedicated calibration weight, ignore this little tutorial: you don't need nickels.
2. I put them on my scale and got a weight of 15.08 grams on the 1st try. Then, I took off them off and re-weighed them, and got the same value: 15.08 grams. This is good. But, its an important to re-weigh objects multiple times, because variables like air-pressure, moisture, the surface its on, battery life in the scale, etc. can all effect the resulting weight.
-> 1st weigh: 15.08 grams. -> 2nd weigh: 15.08 grams
^The fact that the weight is not exactly "15.00 grams" is likely because the U.S. government rounds down (or up) to 5 grams when making nickels. Rounding in government values, such as the values on the "Nutritional Facts" chart on food, is common. This is where the expression "Its good enough for Government work", which means its close enough to the actual value to be "acceptable" by the government. Its just a 5 cent coin, after all.
3. After this, I descided to wash them with handsoap, a toothbrush and warm water. I wanted to see it would make any difference in the weight if the little dirt on the coins would change the weight
-> Scrubing with my toothbrush
4. Next, got to dry off the water. Excess water will throw off the calibration test.

5. Scaling: After cleaning. The first weigh was slightly less at 15.06 grams. The re-weigh was a value of 15.08 grams, a little more than expected, but the change is so slightly, its acceptable. It should of been something like 10.05grams or less. This results suggests that it was most likely caused by left-over water on the nickels, which haven't evaporated yet, since I weighed these *right* after I dried them on the paper towel.
-> 1st weigh: 15.06 grams. -> 2nd weigh: 15.08 grams
Then, I tried just the newer nickels by themselves. I got 10.09 grams, which is a little more than I expecting.
-> 2 new nickels: 10.09 grams.
^Because of unusual result that didn't add up, I desided to weigh them again, and this time I got a value closer 10.00 grams. There is some variablity between the 2 weighs, but it was only 0.02grams, so I'm not worried about it.
-> 1st weigh: 10.01 grams. -> 2nd Weigh: 10.03 grams (+0.02 gram diff.)
Conclusion:
Its a pretty good method for calibrating a digital scale. My scale did have some variability, but that might not be from the scale itself. Instead, the variability I observed could be a result of the ambient conditions I'm weighing in combination with the high-sensitivity and precision of the scale.
Overall, I'm happy with my AWS scale. Its definitely worth its low price for its capabilities.
I made this scale post to motivate people who have not gotten a digital scale to consider getting one for this project (if your that committed to this project)
>>> What about you guys? Do you have digital scales as well? Wanna try the "nickel calibration test" and take photos, just for comparsion?
I'm feeling pretty good about starting the project now. Tonight, I might practice the PF Tek with an old syringe. Its been awhile since I've used it...
To Scale or... Not to Scale ~ LogicaL ChaoS ~
Edited by LogicaL Chaos (01/18/10 05:41 PM)
|
Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
|
Hey everybody, don't forget to vote in the PE Potency Poll!
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 71,179
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 3 hours, 18 minutes
|
Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
#11856169 - 01/18/10 09:08 PM (15 years, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Good thinking doc_t. Thats a good way to start a project: take a poll to see what people already think about the varieties of this project.
Although, some of the wording in the questions are confusing...
I'll list them in your poll thread so we don't get this mixed with your thread.
I just hope the opinions and experiences of people voting doesn't bias people who participate in the project. But, if we conduct double-blind practices for the bioassays, it shouldn't be a problem.
And the poll could make a better, more-defined Hypothesis for this project than the one we have now...And that's a good thing.
Polls are Up ~ LogicaL Chaos ~
|
Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
|
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Although, some of the wording in the questions are confusing...
I worked for like half an hour on that...
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,530
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 7 days, 7 hours
|
Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
#11856341 - 01/18/10 09:35 PM (15 years, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Well done Doc.
Hope to see more votes.
Made sense to me.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
|
LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 71,179
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 3 hours, 18 minutes
|
Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
#11856387 - 01/18/10 09:41 PM (15 years, 1 day ago) |
|
|
Sorry doc_t, I'm just trying to help you out. I'm not saying you did a horrible job, it just needs some minor re-wording...
I want it to suceed, and the best way is to make questions that are *crystal clear* to anyone who reads it. By explaining acronyms explicitly and avoiding confusing sentence-wording, it will make a better poll for everyone.
That way, people don't vote on one thing thinking its something totally different.
Constructive Critisim ~ LogicaL Chaos ~
|
libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
|
I honestly don't think it was that confusing, anyone that took more than 3 seconds to read it could have figured it out. If they couldn't, I seriously doubt they would even be able to successfully cultivate anything living thing let alone mushrooms.
Once my current grow cycle runs its course, which should be in the next couple weeks, I'm gonna start some PE trials. I've never grown it, so wish me luck.
|
Necco
Thread Killer



Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 608
Loc: west of a white house
|
|
Assuming that what I have growing is mycelium and not penicillium, I should have some APE in about 3-4 weeks, then I'll be able to give some real input (although I'm not sure APE counts at this point).
I tried out doing the easy 95% ethanol extraction and didn't get any crystals at all. I didn't reduce the extract, perhaps that is why. But the "tek," if I can call it that, did not specify the degree of reduction.
I haven't yet evaporated the supernatant; maybe I'll get crystals then... (but I kinda doubt it). Something did settle out upon cooling, something white and amorphous, but I'm guessing it is some type of lipid based on the appearance. Bioassays will be performed, but only up to the dosage of ~pure psilocin.
Has anybody else done an extraction yet, and come up with anything noteworthy? I'm starting to think I should start working on a column chromatography tek, because these simple extractions aren't cutting the butter.
--------------------
"Now ether was substituted for chloroform, and the difference of their phenomena noted, and now some other exhilarant, in the form of an opiate or stimulant, was the instrument of my experiments, until I had run through the whole gamut of queer agents within my reach..." I can do everything!!
|
libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
Re: Potency Project [Re: Necco]
#11858003 - 01/19/10 06:14 AM (15 years, 18 hours ago) |
|
|
I don't see why we shouldn't do APE, or at another albino for that matter, if there are any true albino strains that exist besides ape. I've heard that in general, albinos are more potent, and based on this, I would assume that APE is even more consistently potent than regular PE.
As far as extractions go, that seems to be our main area of weakness right now, so I think we should really try to get on the ball and solve this mystery once and for all. How we do this is the problem, but extraction results/reports have been spotty at best.
|
libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
|
Just found this:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4338772/an/0/page/0
Definitely different from some of the other extractions we've been considering I think. The only problem that I see is how does the psilocin bind to the calcium hydroxide? Does it just like.....do it? Or would you have to add a catalyst of some sort to either speed up the process or at least enable/initiate it? Looks like it could work none the less.
The only problem that I see is that it requires wet mushrooms, which would throw of our scientificity if we're trying to use an even amount of mushrooms for each extraction, since water weight can make things extremely variable, but that could easily be remedied by drying them out, taking the given dried amount, and then soaking them in 10 parts water over night to rehydrate.
|
NoOneKnowsHowToAct
Stranger



Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 521
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
|
|
Quote:
libertaire said: Just found this:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4338772/an/0/page/0
Definitely different from some of the other extractions we've been considering I think. The only problem that I see is how does the psilocin bind to the calcium hydroxide? Does it just like.....do it? Or would you have to add a catalyst of some sort to either speed up the process or at least enable/initiate it? Looks like it could work none the less.
The only problem that I see is that it requires wet mushrooms, which would throw of our scientificity if we're trying to use an even amount of mushrooms for each extraction, since water weight can make things extremely variable, but that could easily be remedied by drying them out, taking the given dried amount, and then soaking them in 10 parts water over night to rehydrate.
You could just soak the dry material in water and filter it instead of using fresh shrooms. It's a jungle extraction technique, which is why it starts from fresh fruit instead of something dried. If it works you should be able to substitute dry material that's been soaked in water and then filtered out instead.
-------------------- Winner of 2 of TacoHerder's 2 cultivation contests!
Most recent contest posts:
inoculation
Ready for spawning
Substrate done colonizing
Pins
Pins #2
First flush
|
libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
|
So is anyone gonna be trying some experiments? Should we start a new extraction thread to get the ball rolling? A comprehensive extraction thread doesn't exist anyway, should I start one, or is this sufficient?
I have 5 grams of Colombian Rust Spore fruits that I'm willing to sacrifice to science right now. However, I'm broke as a mother fucker and don't have any ethanol/methanol/antacid tablets. What I do have is vinegar and lye. Should I give an A/B a shot, or is it not worth it?
|
LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 71,179
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 3 hours, 18 minutes
|
|
Sounds good.
So....which extraction method are we going to use? I'm guessing your not refering to the "ethanol extraction", which Cervantes briefly mentioned will be the "Beginners" extraction method.
Is there a better one (that's still sorta simple) that produces pure cyrstals?
I wish I could send my ethanol extractions to an expert to detrimine what that white "blob" stuff that preticipates at the bottom of the glass after the solution cools actually consists of.
>>> One more thing: I just inoculated 3 PF-jars (~1/4 cup BRF each) with the MS-needle of Huautla variety as part of the control. I used the PF-method because its the most basic and simple method, meaning practically any grower here can use it. And since, "a cube is a cube", I can just add the values I get to the overall "Control" results, and it should be all good, right? I should point out that I did not use store-bought Brown rice flour: I ground up some bulk brown rice I bought at a co-op. But, it should *really* effect the potency of the mushroom if whole grain rice is used instead of pre-processed brown rice flour from a store, right? Anyone know if this could make a "noticable" difference?
Opinions? Thoughts? ~ LogicaL Chaos ~
|
libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
|
I think which extraction method we use is still up in the air. At this point, no one really knows which method is reliable. I think that before we move forward with this overall experiment, we should determine once and for all, two extraction methods that work, one that uses only one solvent for simple extractions, and one that uses multiple solvents for the more advanced extractions. Obviously the more advanced ones should yield more pure crystals for it to be worth it. The problem we're running into here is that we are not scientists and we don't have the tools that scientists use, yet we're trying to obtain that same information that scientists yield without their equipment. We may be treading down a dead end path here.
And I just realized a flaw that I made that will prevent me from using my crs until the next flush. I dried all of the fruits and put them in a bag without keeping tabs on which mushrooms came from what cake. That would likely throw things off, so I'll be sure to keep tabs on that this next time around. I'll be compiling the list of all of the extraction reports/resources that I can come across, maybe this will help clear things up a bit in terms of what works and what doesn't and also what has or hasn't been tried yet.
|
libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
|
One other thing that just came to mind, well not really to my mind, but anonjon's mind:
We should develop a standardized test that could be used in our bio-assays to tell how hard someone is tripping. I don't think the 1-5 standard will be enough to get an accurate picture. Whatever it is, it should be something that we can print out or create on our own, but it should be something that we can bring to where the given test subject is tripping. Like anonjon said, maybe some optical illusions, or pictures that look pretty normal to the average person, but to the tripping person would look out of this world. Also, maybe some sort of conversational things could be added that would gauge what a person is thinking/feeling at a particular time. Like for instance, at 30 minutes after ingestion, the subject is asked how they feel, if they see/feel/hear anything strange, etc., and then asked the same set of questions an hour later, and then several hours later. Whatever it is, we should agree on it and standardize it, so that our tests are as similar as possible. Thoughts?
|
NoOneKnowsHowToAct
Stranger



Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 521
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
|
|
I went to the store over the weekend. Here's what I currently have to work with (I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff though):
Acetone Xylene (Xylol) VM&P Naphtha Methanol & Methylene Chloride Acetic Acid (White Vinegar) Calcium Carbonate (Tums) Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking soda) Methyl Ethyl Ketone Tri-Sodium Phosphate (not sure how useful this is though)
I need to pick up: Lye (Red Devil Lye?) Methanol (HEET (Red Bottle?)) Lime Ammonia that DOESN'T have a surfactant in it(?) 151 proof vodka
Anything else I should pick up for my experimentation?
-------------------- Winner of 2 of TacoHerder's 2 cultivation contests!
Most recent contest posts:
inoculation
Ready for spawning
Substrate done colonizing
Pins
Pins #2
First flush
|
libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
|
Calcium hydroxide was another one, but you already have calcium carbonate, so that looks like it should work.
|
NoOneKnowsHowToAct
Stranger



Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 521
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
|
|
Red bottle heet is isopropyl alcohol. It's called Iso-Heet. I picked up the yellow bottle. That bottle says it's methanol. Don't know if it has any additives. I was at the liquor store and forgot to get some grain alcohol lol. Doh!
Anyone know where I can get ammonia that doesn't have additives? Would ACE Hardware work?
I have calcium hydroxide listed (lime). I still haven't found it, but haven't been looking TOO hard. If I need to I know where I can get some but it's like 30 minutes away. I've been trying to find something closer.
Edited by NoOneKnowsHowToAct (01/20/10 06:12 PM)
|
Necco
Thread Killer



Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 608
Loc: west of a white house
|
|
Ace Hardware has stuff called "janitorial ammonia" that comes in one gallon jugs. That is the stuff you want. It is highly concentrated, water white and free of soap. For calcium hydroxide, I'd go ebay. You can get CaOH pretty cheap there, and it can be found pure instead of slaked lime or some BS like that.
I don't know why you are getting stuff ahead of time that you don't know for sure that you are going to need yet. Why don't you get the chems as you go along?
Oh, if only there was some place in another country that we could send samples and have them analyzed. That would make things so much easier.
|
|