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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Raelians
    #1174842 - 12/28/02 08:27 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

First of all, as crazy as the Raelians sound, they are prolly telling the truth about cloning a baby: the cloners might have concocted this UFO cult bullshit precisely so that nobody would take them seriously; and that allowed them to do their cloning research without the normal level of controls. If thats so, than theres no further point in debating pros and cons.

Second of all, cloning is part of 3 technologies which are needed to bring about the death of our species; the other two being the capacity to grow a foetus to term outside a woman's body; and to precisely specify the characteristics of that foetus. The impact of cloning alone will be to create an unpleasant spare parts industry on the one hand and to provide feminists with a truly male-free reproductive alternative on the other. Men could also clone themselves, but would still need a surrogate mother until the artificial womb becomes availible; and women are unlikely to allow that situation where men could reproduce independantly with an artificial womb, since that would lead to a catastrophic war between the sexes. As such, the implementation of this technology will leave room for only one gender. Should this technology be overused before the advent of precise genetic engineering, genetic diversity will disappear and leave us more vulnerable to disease.

Third of all, should all 3 components fall into place in due time, it would mean the end of homo sapiens and the beginning of homo economicus. The global ruling class asserts that human beings exist to serve economies (and not the other way around); and they back that assertion with the brutal use of force. The next step is to extend this concept to human biology as well: the new species will be asexual and entirely dependant on mechanical devices for its procreation; variations will be manufactured to serve different economic needs, and will be cannibalized when that need no longer exists. But of course suffering would still have to exist and accelerate, since thats what neoliberalism is all about. At this point there is still one more thing that could go wrong: an asteroid impact could destroy the technological infrastructure, leaving h. economicus with no means to repropagate. This must be taken into account if the new species is to succeed.

In a certain sense, the earth really is being invaded by aliens; but their aliens from a dismal future and not from another planet. The US global empire is the conquest; the final implementation of the technologies will be the colonization. Fortunately, however, there are still opportunities for Murphy's law to work in our favour.



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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Raelians [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1174874 - 12/28/02 08:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

As such, the implementation of this technology will leave room for only one gender.

I think this is a typical fear inherent in all males. This type of fear-based thinking is what led to such things as the Salem witch trials and the suppression of women for thousands of years. I read somewhere about false myths of female Amazonian cults who used men as slaves being spread by old white men to strike fear into the hearts of men everywhere so that females would be more easily suppressed.

Women aren't going to take over the world... And if they do, well shit, I don't think it could be much worse than what men have done to it.


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Anonymous

Re: Raelians [Re: Adamist]
    #1174885 - 12/28/02 08:41 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.

William Wallace


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Im a Woman [Re: Adamist]
    #1174963 - 12/28/02 09:17 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

As such, the implementation of this technology will leave room for only one gender.

I think this is a typical fear inherent in all males. This type of fear-based thinking is what led to such things as the Salem witch trials and the suppression of women for thousands of years. I read somewhere about false myths of female Amazonian cults who used men as slaves being spread by old white men to strike fear into the hearts of men everywhere so that females would be more easily suppressed.

Women aren't going to take over the world... And if they do, well shit, I don't think it could be much worse than what men have done to it.




But i certainly dont find the idea of a one-gender asexual species anymore enticing than a man would...there wont be any women either once that happens.

The Salem witch hunts were not the result of misogyny, but rather a clique of teenaged girls that wanted to be the center of attention; they did so by bearing false witness against other women. The burning times in Europe was actually against Jews rather than Wiccans; more women became victims because jewishness is inherited from the mother.

Amazonians might have been meant as a positive role model for girls in the face of real male abuse, although i dont necessarily agree with it.

Finally, if Maggie Thatcher is any indication of how we would run the world, then yes, it would be worse.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Im a Woman [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1174968 - 12/28/02 09:22 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

5 shrooms for you, although I dont think historical truth is purely portrayed in stories like "The Crucible", which is where I assume you get your information about the Salem Witch trials?

I think that the fear of women by men had a large part to do with that, along with all the other witch-hunting of that era. But that's just my opinion.


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Offlineribbit
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Re: Im a Woman [Re: Adamist]
    #1175969 - 12/28/02 08:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

your forgetting something here. sex. our single most desire, i think mankind(including women) would realize that having an Asexual race would not be in the best interest. not saying it is an impossible thought... but i think we'd kill everyone on the planet before allowing women to dominate. (men control nukes) =o)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Im a Woman [Re: ribbit]
    #1176426 - 12/29/02 04:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Humans won't give up sex or natural reproduction as a species, ever. First off, we all love sex too much. Second, I could argue that our purpose for being here is to reproduce and have offspring.

Yes, there will be exceptions; people who would rather be cloned than have a child naturally. But they will never be the majority. Most of us will continue to have children the old fasion way.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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In Response to the Last 2 Threads [Re: trendal]
    #1176808 - 12/29/02 09:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

You seem to forget that sex and reproduction are two different things. In the short term, the industrialization and commercialization of human procreation is merely another avenue for the expansion of global-corporate power. It does not seem possible that the petty sexual desires of individuals, which must necessarily compete against each other, could ever function collectively as to keep this avenue closed. In the long term, this might very well be a natural evolutionary process which is beyond human control; if this is so, then the current struggle against global neoliberalism is indeed a fight for the survival of humanity.

"An asexual race is not in the best interest" only when the benefits of resistance to diseases conferred by genetic mixing via sexual intercourse outweigh the costs of sexually transmitted diseases. In recent years, AIDS has tilted that balance sharply towards the latter. Once genetic programming technology is perfected it will provide the immunity. The biological argument against an asexual race is fading rapidly.

Finally, the success of this new alien species would by no means be a victory for women, as ribbit has suggested. Women would cease to exist if it ever becomes a reality. The feminist movement (which is very different from "women"), OTOH, is an aspect of global neoliberalism, which is its current phase of development.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineMurex
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Re: In Response to the Last 2 Threads [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1178213 - 12/29/02 08:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

An asexual race would be more efficiant, considering how much we humans think about sex and all that. They would be more equal and be able to love another for the person they are.


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: In Response to the Last 2 Threads [Re: Murex]
    #1178224 - 12/29/02 08:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

True dat. Divinity is genderless.


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Anonymous

Re: In Response to the Last 2 Threads [Re: Adamist]
    #1178422 - 12/29/02 11:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

That's only because it's candy.


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InvisibleFrozenHappiness
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Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: In Response to the Last 2 Threads [Re: Murex]
    #1178549 - 12/30/02 02:31 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

An asexual race would be more efficiant, considering how much we humans think about sex and all that.




I dont know about efficiancy, maybe in the short run. But we was a race are constantly evolving, not only spiritually and mentaly, but physically. We need constant genetic variation to keep that flow going. However, I personally dont see cloning dominating over natural reproduction for efficiancy reasons. Anything is possible.


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OfflineJackal
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Re: In Response to the Last 2 Threads [Re: FrozenHappiness]
    #1178552 - 12/30/02 02:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

An asexual race would be more efficiant



Maybe, but I think an asexual race would have many issues of its own! Especially when combined with high intelligence & emotion. Individuals may not feel entirely 'neutral' and may demonstrate male or female thoughts/feelings. In a society where everyone is a singular sex, this may be a problem!


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: In Response to the Last 2 Threads [Re: Jackal]
    #1179940 - 12/30/02 01:47 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

An asexual race would be more efficiant



Maybe, but I think an asexual race would have many issues of its own! Especially when combined with high intelligence & emotion. Individuals may not feel entirely 'neutral' and may demonstrate male or female thoughts/feelings. In a society where everyone is a singular sex, this may be a problem!




"Efficiency" in economics is too poorly defined to try to argue. But in a society where people exist to serve economies, it doesnt matter what anyone thinks. Nor are such beings likely to think in dualistic balances like "male" and "female" either, due to their asexual nature. They will only recognize "power and those too weak to use it", the ultimate evil society.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: In Response to the Last 2 Threads [Re: Murex]
    #1180192 - 12/30/02 04:16 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

An asexual race would be more efficiant

Yeah, but then how could they market beer?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinenubious
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Re: In Response to the Last 2 Threads [Re: Swami]
    #1180307 - 12/30/02 05:54 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, but then how could they market beer?

Good question!! They would probably find a way - and put it this way - the beer drinking football watchers wouldn't have to put up with the tampon commercials during the super bowl!

YES#@%#!@%

(P.S. - sports are stupid)


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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