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OfflineMushroomboss
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Registered: 04/12/09
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Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!!
    #11741810 - 12/30/09 10:33 AM (15 years, 21 days ago)

This is my 3rd attempt on rye berry jars and I still can't figure out what is wrong! This jar is about 13 days after I inoculated and there is no visible mycelium growth. Here is my process so try to spot anything wrong you can please.




-Soaked grains for 24 hours in cold water after I rinsed out the dirt and contaminants
-Boiled for 10 minutes and then steam dried them by tossing them in colander
-Used this method for sealing jars http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8598583#8598583
-Loaded into quart jars and sealed top using the link above and put tinfoil over the tops
-Pressure cooked for 60 minutes at 15 PSI and the water level was about an inch and a half from bottom maybe 2 inches
-Let pressure cooker fully cooldown then I took golden teacher syringes and dropped in 1 cc per jar on the sides
-Set in my aquarium incubator rubbermaid tub device that sits at around 74-75 degrees

Maybe my syringes are bad? I got them from sporeworks during August and it was around 110 degrees outside. I have no idea what is going on and I am really determined to make this work so anyone please help a mycologist to be!

Edited by Mushroomboss (12/30/09 10:36 AM)

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OfflineIslandminded
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Mushroomboss]
    #11741844 - 12/30/09 10:42 AM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Search for Quick Step Rye Prep, never fails.

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Offlinetelekid
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Islandminded]
    #11741866 - 12/30/09 10:47 AM (15 years, 21 days ago)

looks sorta wet but can't really tell for sure. try using more than 1cc tho.


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my easy lids

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OfflineMushroomboss
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: telekid]
    #11741902 - 12/30/09 10:53 AM (15 years, 21 days ago)

There is definitely visible moisture when looking at the walls of the jar, it looks like small speckles of moisture, and there are also a handful of drops of water near the top of the jar above the grains. I remember looking at a thread a day or two ago where there was much more visible moisture above the grain line and his jars had mycelium growth and it makes me sad!

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OfflineMushroomboss
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Mushroomboss]
    #11742237 - 12/30/09 12:04 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Okay well I am gonna make another batch and add more than 1 cc. I will try like 5 cc but I need more input from you mycologists!

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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Mushroomboss]
    #11742360 - 12/30/09 12:27 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

[s]Stupid question, but the lid tek didn't seem to cover it. Did you drill a hole in your lid?[/s] Never mind, read through the rest of the tek. Sorry, I just woke up.

Did you give your syringe a nice thump and a shake? sometimes the spores get stuck to the wall/plunger and need a bit of TLC to get them floating around ready to be shot.

Since you've grown nothing, that means your sterile procedure is good thus far.

your jars look a wee bit dryer than mine, and I've been told that mine run on the dry side.

check the temp of your incubator with a device other than itself if you haven't already done so.

Assuming the answers to the above questions are "no", I got money on the syringes' goose being cooked. I'm not sure what their heat tolerance is, but 110 for any length of time doesn't sound good for a syringe. A print would probably fare better in extreme weather conditions.

2cc of spore solution for a qt jar is plenty.


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

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Edited by fundamentalchair (12/30/09 12:32 PM)

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Invisiblewygram
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Mushroomboss]
    #11742388 - 12/30/09 12:32 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Water content looks fine.

The syringe is more than likely the problem. Sporeworks is very reputable, so I'm sure they sent you viable spores, but as you said they might have been killed in the shipping process.

Did you shake the syringe prior to inoculating? Using 1cc shouldn't hurt anything as there still should be plenty of spores.


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Changing your mind is one of the best ways of finding out whether or not you still have one.

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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Mushroomboss]
    #11742394 - 12/30/09 12:34 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

What were they packed in? It seems unreasonable that the actual syringes would be so well exposed to outdoor conditions as such to allow prolonged heat exposure; lest you left them out in the box to cook for a week or two.

Aside from that, don't incubate, there is no need to. It slows growth and mostly just promotes contamination; especially if you live in the heat already.




~Monk

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OfflineMushroomboss
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: numonkei]
    #11742425 - 12/30/09 12:41 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Okay thanks for the replies guys!

So I did shake the syringes a lot before I injected, so I assume that isn't the problem. My incubator device is 2 rubber maids stacked with water in between and a aquarium heater in the water. I have a thermometer on the inside where the jars are and it reads 83 degrees when it is set against the plastic, but then it is 74 when you place it on top of the jars or on the blanket that covers it. I would assume the general temperature is 74 since that is the air around everything but the bottoms of the jars are probably hotter.

The syringes weren't shipped to my house and were sitting outside for maybe a day at most. At least this could be my problem so all I have to do is order new syringes and I have some money! Sucks though cuz I ordered 10 of them and I wasted 115$, but all I really want is some mycelium growth! I love you guys thanks for replying once again!

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OfflineMushroomboss
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: numonkei]
    #11742433 - 12/30/09 12:41 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

numonkei said:
What were they packed in? It seems unreasonable that the actual syringes would be so well exposed to outdoor conditions as such to allow prolonged heat exposure; lest you left them out in the box to cook for a week or two.

Aside from that, don't incubate, there is no need to. It slows growth and mostly just promotes contamination; especially if you live in the heat already.




~Monk



Oh yea they were in simply a brown cardboard box and within the box was a plastic bag with the syringes.

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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Mushroomboss]
    #11742523 - 12/30/09 01:00 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

-Set in my aquarium incubator rubbermaid tub device that sits at around 74-75 degrees[/quote
Quote:

Mushroomboss said:
Okay thanks for the replies guys!

So I did shake the syringes a lot before I injected, so I assume that isn't the problem. My incubator device is 2 rubber maids stacked with water in between and a aquarium heater in the water. I have a thermometer on the inside where the jars are and it reads 83 degrees when it is set against the plastic, but then it is 74 when you place it on top of the jars or on the blanket that covers it. I would assume the general temperature is 74 since that is the air around everything but the bottoms of the jars are probably hotter.

The syringes weren't shipped to my house and were sitting outside for maybe a day at most. At least this could be my problem so all I have to do is order new syringes and I have some money! Sucks though cuz I ordered 10 of them and I wasted 115$, but all I really want is some mycelium growth! I love you guys thanks for replying once again!




That's too hot for an incubator. Heat is more readily transferred through conduction than through either convection or radiation. In short, while your air temp in the incubator is 74, your jars are possibly getting up to 83. I think 80 is like the top incubation temp, but don't quote me on that.

Can you see spores floating around in the solution? If you have an unused one (or partially used one) give em a bit of a thump on your thumb, see if anything breaks loose and floats around. My first syringe I gave the shaking of a lifetime, but when I shot up my last jar I saw a stream of black fill up the needle bezel (or whatever it's called).


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light

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OfflineMushroomboss
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11742996 - 12/30/09 02:19 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Okay so I can lower the temps on my jars so the max heat is 80, or maybe I can just cover the blanket under the bottom so it just heats up the blanket and it will absorb the heat. I can see lots of black stuff swirling around in the syringes, so I dunno. My first batch of jars didn't have incubation and were around 71-77 degrees and nothing happened with them.

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Offlinepunkrocker292004
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Mushroomboss]
    #11743034 - 12/30/09 02:27 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Mushroomboss said:
Okay so I can lower the temps on my jars so the max heat is 80, or maybe I can just cover the blanket under the bottom so it just heats up the blanket and it will absorb the heat. I can see lots of black stuff swirling around in the syringes, so I dunno. My first batch of jars didn't have incubation and were around 71-77 degrees and nothing happened with them.




if you cant get it to work just order some pre sterilized bags


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EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW

on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero-tyler durden

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OfflineMushroomboss
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: punkrocker292004]
    #11743052 - 12/30/09 02:31 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

I just talked to sporeworks and I asked if the syringes would die in heat and they said it is very possible, so they straight up offered me another batch of 10 syringes for free! I was so surprised at their kindness I wasn't expecting it at all, I just wanted to know if they would die or not! Well I have to wait for them to arrive and I am gonna try again. If these new syringes don't do anything I am gonna have to try something new probably those bags you suggested there.

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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Mushroomboss]
    #11743077 - 12/30/09 02:35 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Mushroomboss said:
Okay so I can lower the temps on my jars so the max heat is 80, or maybe I can just cover the blanket under the bottom so it just heats up the blanket and it will absorb the heat. I can see lots of black stuff swirling around in the syringes, so I dunno. My first batch of jars didn't have incubation and were around 71-77 degrees and nothing happened with them.




I've colonized in the mid 60s successfully. It's tortoise slow, but it'll colonize. Old hands will tell you that the fastest colonization speed (without undue risk of contam) is somewhere around 75-80, but it isn't needed.

I'd suggest turning down the heat a notch, as even 80 isn't required. If you leave it a nice 75-77 and put a lid on it, they'll grow nice and you won't have much of a danger of temp fluctuations. Just make sure you don't run dry, I would hate to see a fire get started.

That black stuff should be spores, so you got them mixed good. I've gotten a few syringes with spores that you can't see with the naked eye, but they're there.

Quote:

-Let pressure cooker fully cooldown then I took golden teacher syringes and dropped in 1 cc per jar on the sides



How long did you let the jars/pc cool?

Quote:

if you cant get it to work just order some pre sterilized bags




spoken like someone on their 15th post.

Quote:

I just talked to sporeworks and I asked if the syringes would die in heat and they said it is very possible, so they straight up offered me another batch of 10 syringes for free! I was so surprised at their kindness I wasn't expecting it at all, I just wanted to know if they would die or not! Well I have to wait for them to arrive and I am gonna try again. If these new syringes don't do anything I am gonna have to try something new probably those bags you suggested there.




I <3 Sporeworks


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light

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OfflineMushroomboss
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: fundamentalchair]
    #11743125 - 12/30/09 02:44 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

I let the PC and the jars inside cool for at least 6 hours, I don't remember but it might have even been like 12. All I know is that the pressure cooker was fully cooled down and to the touch felt like cool metal. Thanks so much for the input you have been a great help I really appreciate your wisdom!

EDIT: Oh yea I was curious about how much water you put into your PC. I have a rack that holds the jars slightly off the bottom and I slightly immersed the jars into the water, just so they were touching the water.

Edited by Mushroomboss (12/30/09 02:46 PM)

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Offlinefundamentalchair
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Re: Rye Berry Jars still not working help por favor!! [Re: Mushroomboss]
    #11743285 - 12/30/09 03:14 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Mushroomboss said:
I let the PC and the jars inside cool for at least 6 hours, I don't remember but it might have even been like 12. All I know is that the pressure cooker was fully cooled down and to the touch felt like cool metal. Thanks so much for the input you have been a great help I really appreciate your wisdom!

EDIT: Oh yea I was curious about how much water you put into your PC. I have a rack that holds the jars slightly off the bottom and I slightly immersed the jars into the water, just so they were touching the water.




Let the jars cool overnight. When I turn off the PC, I put a quarter on the pressure valve (mine tends to stay up after hitting 0 psi, helps it drop). Once the pressure valve drops it's safe to open it and pull out the jars (get a canning kit if you don't have one, comes with a nifty tool to pull out hot jars). At this point it's safe to dump the water and reload (don't put room temp jars in hot water, they can shatter).

I run the water about half-way up my jars, although it isn't close to necessary. I have an electric stove and before I replaced the heating element connector (like, in the stove) I would have a hard time controlling heat accurately. This would cause me to sometimes over-heat and cause heinous amounts of water loss.

the more water you have in there, the longer it takes to heat/cool, but the less of a chance of running dry. If you're good with a PC, a 90 min run will use about a quart to a quart and a half of water.

Some people also suggest putting a nickle on the rocker to help keep the noise manageable, and I found it easier to get the heat right using that technique (after fixing my stove, that is). I personally put a quarter on there, but my PC will take up to 20psi (I use a 15psi rocker though). with a coin on there, if the pressure gets too high the rocker will buck it off. A quarter keeps mine right around 16psi, although it did get to 18 once before kicking it off. Your millage will vary and don't blow up your kitchen (or you!).

On a side note, I'm not wise. I'm just really good at fucking shit up.


--------------------
semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit


Sclerotia FAQ... If ya ain't got any stones, grow some.

Will work for Laetiporus sulphureus culture/spores (or any other Laetiporus actually), :pm: me.

My Trade list.

Ghetto Tek: Auto FAE & Light

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