Home | Community | Message Board

Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
"Objectivism" based on fiction
    #11732509 - 12/28/09 04:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Does anyone find it odd that all the hard-nosed objectively objective Objectivists defend their worldview with passages from a novel? Personally I'd be more impressed with a philosophy called Empiricism that was inspired by, you know, real people living on planet Earth and not someone's imagination.

Am I crazy?


--------------------
BEST TEAM IN THE UNIVERSE

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 12 days
Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
    #11732533 - 12/28/09 04:05 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Philosophy forum?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRationalEgo
Principium Individuationis


Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,096
Loc: Boston
Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
    #11732578 - 12/28/09 04:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jimbotron said:
Does anyone find it odd that all the hard-nosed objectively objective Objectivists defend their worldview with passages from a novel?





Being an Objectivist myself I challenge you to find one instance of me doing that in any of my posts to date on this forum. It's not common for Objectivists to use passages from Rands fiction to defend their views as there is ample explicit philosophic material besides the novels.

Quote:


Am I crazy?




I can't comment on your psychological state. Perhaps you should visit a psychologist? :smirk:

Edited by RationalEgo (12/28/09 04:23 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
    #11732850 - 12/28/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Am I crazy?

yes, and possibly not too bright.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRationalEgo
Principium Individuationis


Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,096
Loc: Boston
Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: Icelander]
    #11732969 - 12/28/09 05:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Also, Objectivism is not based upon Rand's fiction. Her fiction is based upon her philosophy of Objectivism.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: Icelander]
    #11732986 - 12/28/09 05:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting. Well, let me pose a question then.

If someone frequently peppers their arguments with references to John Galt, are they an Objectivist or a poser?


--------------------
BEST TEAM IN THE UNIVERSE

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
    #11732997 - 12/28/09 05:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

How the fuck would I know, nor do I care. I was referring to your blanket statement about Objectivists.

Does anyone find it odd that all the hard-nosed objectively objective Objectivists defend their worldview with passages from a novel?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
    #11733087 - 12/28/09 05:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well let's be real here, her philosophy is known primarily for its veneration of laissez-faire capitalism, thanks to "disciples" like Alan Greenspan. (I'm sure that flows from all the boring epistemological stuff about "action and identity" but you read one of those theories, you read 'em all)

But there are countless examples of how free markets can fail, be subverted, be corrupted. And her vision of a purely meritocratic society bears almost no resemblance to the one we live in; paradoxically, the actions of her best-known devotees have Objectively made the situation even worse.

And indeed, as Greenspan said in his mea culpa:

"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such as that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms"

Hmm. He thought that if everyone acted in their own rational self-interest, things would be hunky-dory. I wonder where he got that idea.

Anyway this isn't just about Alan Greenspan. It's just that for a long time he was considered (for whatever reason) one of the smartest men in America, and he was never shy about declaring that Ayn Rand was his muse. And he fucked us all.

Meanwhile, the Objectivist movement continues to hand out free copies of Atlas Shrugged to young conservatives. It's inexplicable, given that her works of fiction are apparently completely divorced from her philosophy. You'd think they'd highlight the many, many ways that Objectivist principles have helped make the world a better place. Or maybe they're not supposed to help the lazy, uninspired parasites.


--------------------
BEST TEAM IN THE UNIVERSE

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRationalEgo
Principium Individuationis


Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,096
Loc: Boston
Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
    #11733115 - 12/28/09 05:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jimbotron said:
Well let's be real here, her philosophy is known primarily for its veneration of laissez-faire capitalism, thanks to "disciples" like Alan Greenspan. (I'm sure that flows from all the boring epistemological stuff about "action and identity" but you read one of those theories, you read 'em all)

But there are countless examples of how free markets can fail, be subverted, be corrupted. And her vision of a purely meritocratic society bears almost no resemblance to the one we live in; paradoxically, the actions of her best-known devotees have Objectively made the situation even worse.

And indeed, as Greenspan said in his mea culpa:

"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such as that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms"

Hmm. He thought that if everyone acted in their own rational self-interest, things would be hunky-dory. I wonder where he got that idea.

Anyway this isn't just about Alan Greenspan. It's just that for a long time he was considered (for whatever reason) one of the smartest men in America, and he was never shy about declaring that Ayn Rand was his muse. And he fucked us all.






He sold out his principles and rejected O'ism. So what? I'm sick of hearing about Greenspan. All of his activities in the FED were anti-antithetical to the principles of O'ism . Bringing that douche up is not an argument against O'ism or Capitalism. Get real.

Quote:



Meanwhile, the Objectivist movement continues to hand out free copies of Atlas Shrugged to young conservatives. It's inexplicable, given that her works of fiction are apparently completely divorced from her philosophy.






Her fiction is NOT "divorced" from her philosophy, it is based upon her philosophy.

Quote:


You'd think they'd highlight the many, many ways that Objectivist principles have helped make the world a better place. Or maybe they're not supposed to help the lazy, uninspired parasites.




Just quit now, your arguments are stupid, infantile and ill conceieved. Get real.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
    #11733156 - 12/28/09 05:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

And he fucked us all.

Way to take responsibility for yourself.:thumbup: He didn't fuck me. I made sure of that. I took an early retirement at 55 to celebrate while the rest go broke and blame everyone but themselves.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Objectivism.. Here We Go Again!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Ped 11,235 130 03/21/06 10:37 PM
by SkorpivoMusterion
* Objectivism - The Libertarians? Albatross Evolving 887 5 11/03/04 08:48 PM
by Frog
* Objectivism?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
WhiteRabbitt 5,599 65 12/14/04 03:40 PM
by Phred
* Objectivism: What a load of..
( 1 2 3 all )
buttonion 6,006 52 05/19/03 09:19 AM
by Anonymous
* objectivism on free will Deviate 779 3 12/16/05 05:33 AM
by Seuss
* Critiques of Ayn Rand's Objectivism
( 1 2 all )
Trepiodge 2,969 24 07/30/07 06:03 PM
by Left Nut City
* Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Sporetacus 3,749 62 05/20/06 05:05 AM
by Springs
* Question for moral objectivists
( 1 2 all )
silversoul7 3,848 31 06/14/03 10:42 AM
by NewToTrippin

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
372 topic views. 2 members, 6 guests and 17 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.