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jimbotron
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"Objectivism" based on fiction
#11732509 - 12/28/09 04:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Does anyone find it odd that all the hard-nosed objectively objective Objectivists defend their worldview with passages from a novel? Personally I'd be more impressed with a philosophy called Empiricism that was inspired by, you know, real people living on planet Earth and not someone's imagination.
Am I crazy?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




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Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
#11732533 - 12/28/09 04:05 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Philosophy forum?
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis


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Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
#11732578 - 12/28/09 04:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jimbotron said: Does anyone find it odd that all the hard-nosed objectively objective Objectivists defend their worldview with passages from a novel?
Being an Objectivist myself I challenge you to find one instance of me doing that in any of my posts to date on this forum. It's not common for Objectivists to use passages from Rands fiction to defend their views as there is ample explicit philosophic material besides the novels.
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Am I crazy?
I can't comment on your psychological state. Perhaps you should visit a psychologist?
Edited by RationalEgo (12/28/09 04:23 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
#11732850 - 12/28/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Am I crazy?
yes, and possibly not too bright.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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RationalEgo
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Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: Icelander]
#11732969 - 12/28/09 05:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Also, Objectivism is not based upon Rand's fiction. Her fiction is based upon her philosophy of Objectivism.
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jimbotron
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Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: Icelander]
#11732986 - 12/28/09 05:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Interesting. Well, let me pose a question then.
If someone frequently peppers their arguments with references to John Galt, are they an Objectivist or a poser?
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Icelander
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Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
#11732997 - 12/28/09 05:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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How the fuck would I know, nor do I care. I was referring to your blanket statement about Objectivists.
Does anyone find it odd that all the hard-nosed objectively objective Objectivists defend their worldview with passages from a novel?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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jimbotron
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Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
#11733087 - 12/28/09 05:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well let's be real here, her philosophy is known primarily for its veneration of laissez-faire capitalism, thanks to "disciples" like Alan Greenspan. (I'm sure that flows from all the boring epistemological stuff about "action and identity" but you read one of those theories, you read 'em all)
But there are countless examples of how free markets can fail, be subverted, be corrupted. And her vision of a purely meritocratic society bears almost no resemblance to the one we live in; paradoxically, the actions of her best-known devotees have Objectively made the situation even worse.
And indeed, as Greenspan said in his mea culpa:
"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such as that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms"
Hmm. He thought that if everyone acted in their own rational self-interest, things would be hunky-dory. I wonder where he got that idea.
Anyway this isn't just about Alan Greenspan. It's just that for a long time he was considered (for whatever reason) one of the smartest men in America, and he was never shy about declaring that Ayn Rand was his muse. And he fucked us all.
Meanwhile, the Objectivist movement continues to hand out free copies of Atlas Shrugged to young conservatives. It's inexplicable, given that her works of fiction are apparently completely divorced from her philosophy. You'd think they'd highlight the many, many ways that Objectivist principles have helped make the world a better place. Or maybe they're not supposed to help the lazy, uninspired parasites.
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RationalEgo
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Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
#11733115 - 12/28/09 05:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jimbotron said: Well let's be real here, her philosophy is known primarily for its veneration of laissez-faire capitalism, thanks to "disciples" like Alan Greenspan. (I'm sure that flows from all the boring epistemological stuff about "action and identity" but you read one of those theories, you read 'em all)
But there are countless examples of how free markets can fail, be subverted, be corrupted. And her vision of a purely meritocratic society bears almost no resemblance to the one we live in; paradoxically, the actions of her best-known devotees have Objectively made the situation even worse.
And indeed, as Greenspan said in his mea culpa:
"I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such as that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms"
Hmm. He thought that if everyone acted in their own rational self-interest, things would be hunky-dory. I wonder where he got that idea.
Anyway this isn't just about Alan Greenspan. It's just that for a long time he was considered (for whatever reason) one of the smartest men in America, and he was never shy about declaring that Ayn Rand was his muse. And he fucked us all.
He sold out his principles and rejected O'ism. So what? I'm sick of hearing about Greenspan. All of his activities in the FED were anti-antithetical to the principles of O'ism . Bringing that douche up is not an argument against O'ism or Capitalism. Get real.
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Meanwhile, the Objectivist movement continues to hand out free copies of Atlas Shrugged to young conservatives. It's inexplicable, given that her works of fiction are apparently completely divorced from her philosophy.
Her fiction is NOT "divorced" from her philosophy, it is based upon her philosophy.
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You'd think they'd highlight the many, many ways that Objectivist principles have helped make the world a better place. Or maybe they're not supposed to help the lazy, uninspired parasites.
Just quit now, your arguments are stupid, infantile and ill conceieved. Get real.
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Icelander
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Re: "Objectivism" based on fiction [Re: jimbotron]
#11733156 - 12/28/09 05:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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And he fucked us all.
Way to take responsibility for yourself. He didn't fuck me. I made sure of that. I took an early retirement at 55 to celebrate while the rest go broke and blame everyone but themselves.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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