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Invisiblespud
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Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
for those of you who are trying to lose self
    #1173315 - 12/27/02 08:42 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

im not really sure how to say it so im just gonna say it. some people attempt to lose their "self" very hard, expecially buddhists and samanas. i believe this if futile. by attempting to lose yourself you WANT to lose yourself. to lose you self you can have no wants. the drive to lose yourself is fueled by self, wanting to lose yourself and enter nirvana is desires of the self. fasting, torment, patience, meditation, all these practices are driven by the self so how could they destroy the self? maybe i didnt say this right but im tired so im gonna stop here. anyways tell me what you think.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: spud]
    #1173350 - 12/27/02 08:51 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

In this country it is nearly impossible to function without the ego, so I certainly wouldn't want to lose my "self"


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (12/27/02 08:51 AM)


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: Strumpling]
    #1173354 - 12/27/02 08:53 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

lose of self doesnt have to be permanent, though most who try to lose it go for that goal


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: spud]
    #1173416 - 12/27/02 09:17 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: spud]
    #1173724 - 12/27/02 11:38 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)



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The greatEnitsuj
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: spud]
    #1173914 - 12/27/02 01:26 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

if i was able to escape, and live in compleat isolation with myself, then i would most likley choose to compleatly loose my "self" but like revelation said, i could not live in this world, without my "self"



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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: spud]
    #1174022 - 12/27/02 02:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

You're absolutely correct. desiring Nirvana is a paradox. One has to stop desiring the Ultimate State and Realize (i.e., make real) the Ultimate State. That is why in Zen they say, "Before Enlightenment - chopping wood and carrying water; after Enlightenment - chopping wood and carrying water.' After Enlightenment, everything is the same in one's existence, but one Realizes that 'This Is It,' as Alan Watts titled his book. The 'This,' however, transcends the phenomenal world. The 'This' is an Eternal Presence that is overwhelmingly 'Present' to one's awareness in the midst of everyday activities. It is perhaps summed up best, in writing and drawing, in the book BE HERE NOW.

Desiring to drink, eat, love and draw your next breath is perfectly OK. It is when desire overwhelms the awareness of Presence, of Isness, of the fullness of the Eternal Present, so that one's life becomes a compulsive hunger for more and more and more, like the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, that Enlightenment becomes impossible. You may be more Enlightened than you think. We are all bad judges of this in ourselves, and it is a matter of degree not all or nothing. Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1174031 - 12/27/02 02:40 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Great post markos.


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OfflineSnuffelzFurever
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: spud]
    #1174189 - 12/27/02 04:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i totally agree with you, heh. very cool :-)

i figure complete ego-loss can only come with death, or by going "insane." If you lose your ego, you can't get it back. You killed it. You have escaped permanently from the confines of what we live in. If you even think a single thought about your ego-loss, you have not lost your ego. I guess it might be possible to experience, temporary ego-loss, which is useful, because I guess it can prepare you for death. but it's not like losing your ego at death is going to change whether you had a fear of ego-loss before death.
Timothy Leary said it's like balancing on a pin, and I agree with that analogy. But if you fall off, you didnt lose your ego. You just turned your eyes from it for a while


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"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"


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OfflineMurex
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: SnuffelzFurever]
    #1174243 - 12/27/02 05:22 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

You would die if you lost your ego permenantly.

You would be brain-dead and thus could not drink or eat.


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineSnuffelzFurever
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: Murex]
    #1174247 - 12/27/02 05:23 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

yea, that makes sense, heh. i've been wondering if anyone could lose ego and still live, but you just kinda proved it wouldnt be possible, cuz they wouldnt eat. they would sit on the floor or lie down... and deteroriate, heh.


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"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: Murex]
    #1174274 - 12/27/02 05:38 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

You would die if you lost your ego permenantly.

I think this is what happens to people like Sri Ramakrishna...

Those silly Aquarians...


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: spud]
    #1174284 - 12/27/02 05:43 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I think the goal is not to lose the self completely, but rather be able to achieve a state in which you are unattached to it. I don't think you should permanently live in this state, but the goal is to be able to enter into it so that when you die, you may leave this plane as smoothly as possible, merging you back into eternity without the attachments of karma keeping you here. So it's like an ongoing process of detachment from material reality (or maya) until you die, and at that point if you are totally unattached you can choose to leave this reality and re-join the Source or something.  :tongue:   


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OfflineD_Tox
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: Adamist]
    #1174287 - 12/27/02 05:45 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

you guys do bring up good points,

first off, do you think there would be so many practising Buddhists if it was some silly chase?? maybe yes, but as Lao Tzu said "True words always seem paradoxical but no other form of teaching can take their place."


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D_Tox

to understand other people….to be aware
to understand animals….to be a decent person
to understand plants….. to be a refined individual
to understand the mushroom…to be enlightened


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: D_Tox]
    #1174435 - 12/27/02 11:43 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

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OfflineGrav
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: spud]
    #1174450 - 12/28/02 12:05 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I think experiencing degrees of ego-loss can be quite refreshing and in these states you have opportunities to actually learn alot more about yourself from a more objective viewpoint.

Spud, you claim all conscious thought is directed by your ego. How do you know?

When you're hungry I don't think it's the ego that drives you to eat... it is your body, yet you are still aware of 'wanting to eat'.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: Murex]
    #1174684 - 12/28/02 06:11 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Hey there MUrex, congrats on being one of the first to discard their christmas hat! :wink: However, i can't agree with your statement that ego loss=brain dead.......just my point of view :smile: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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OfflineRemy
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: spud]
    #1174703 - 12/28/02 06:34 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

We cannot truely lose our ego until we die, but we can control our ego, and stop letting it govern our true selves. The ego is the false center. Our true center is Zen. If we let the truth guide us, then our lives on earth will not be ill spent. Any man who can say I am without ego, is egotistical. As long as we think about ourselves before everything else, we are being governed by our ego. It may not be possible to live without an ego forever, but we sure as hell can work to let the spirit groove us, rather than the ego lose us. There are a couple quotes that I would like to add, that might be of some help. Lose yourself in the music- Eminem. Steal your face- The Grateful Dead.


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
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Re: for those of you who are trying to lose self [Re: Grav]
    #1174755 - 12/28/02 07:29 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

>When you're hungry I don't think it's the ego that drives you to eat... it is your body, yet you are still aware of 'wanting to eat'.

we eat because we feel hunger, hunger is pain, self does not want to feel pain. we are pleasing the self.


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