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xbrutalx233
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Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1,001
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What should I do on the next flush?
#11713645 - 12/24/09 06:41 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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So, I have all these knots only about 50-60 pines off this giant tub, most are on the side and where the bag overlaps the sub, which im sure is a humidity booster... Should I just layer it with wax paper? or what... Also, how much misting is too much?
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cyantific
Trusted Masturbator


Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 1,323
Loc: Shakashuri Island
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: xbrutalx233]
#11713711 - 12/24/09 07:00 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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damn dude we are in the same boat right now ... same number of pins and shit-loads of knots in a big tub !
i considered wax paper then decided against it ... gave it a heavy misting instead then tilted the tub to run the puddles off the surface ...
i figured doing this once a day should get some moisture and evaporation/humidity around the knots ... i like to be as noninvasive to my tub as possible when its knotted up as they can go south in a hurry with little provocation ...
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xbrutalx233
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: cyantific]
#11713720 - 12/24/09 07:01 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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Yeah, I have 1000's of knots ... Kind of pissing me off... lol
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cyantific
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Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 1,323
Loc: Shakashuri Island
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: xbrutalx233]
#11713736 - 12/24/09 07:05 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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its shit like this that makes me really want an ultrasonic fogger !
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xbrutalx233
Learner



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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: cyantific]
#11713783 - 12/24/09 07:19 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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I grow in tubs, supposed to maintain humidity, but it's obviously not... maybe my poly is too loose
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cyantific
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Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 1,323
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: xbrutalx233]
#11713799 - 12/24/09 07:23 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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fogger can be hooked up to it like a cool mist ...
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grimeyobject
Mello Fellow




Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 146
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: xbrutalx233]
#11713826 - 12/24/09 07:32 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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When you saturate it's too much. If you're trying to raise RH then mist once or twice every few hours without completely removing lid, i.e. crack lid and spray to the best of your ability a few mists, and reseal. Unless you've totally drilled out your FC and the water is evaporating too quickly then this should help. When the walls start to condensate under your FCs' STP (standard temp. and press., i.e. your regular temp and pressure has been steady for a while, that reading of temp and pressure would be your STP. I know IUPAC and NIST standards are different. All you need to read it is a barometer in your tank too, and they're small gauges like all the rest, and quite handy in meteorology to boot,) and hold drips, you're getting real close. Slow the spray down a bi until those drips begin to run down your tank like little rivers. This is usual desired saturation for monotubs or humidity for FCs. When a FC (or any ecosystem) is kept at a STP then you can accurately judge what is condensation from high RH and what is there from difference in air temp(i.e. "sweating" like many toilets do in summer). If you are scientific enough about it the obvious signs are there, and not just mystery.
I know I have few posts, and I know this method can be controversial, however with all my scientific knowledge backing me I can be quite certain that this micro-ecosystem can be regulated just like any other. If you can control temp, pressure, and RH, hell, you could make it (theoretically) have a layer of warm fog over the entire pinning surface for all I care. They do it in micro-ecosystem generators(weather simulators) so why can't you? All you need is a way to regulate pressure. This probably isn't practical for your purposes, however. So what you should do is learn how to predict what will happen to your environment with changes to the STP (usually pressure changes in atmosphere) and RH so you can visually identify when to water. Most people call this "getting to know what the fungus needs" and it occurs with experience.
The easy way to get to know when to mist the air to raise the RH is by setting up a wet bulb/dry bulb humidistadt. Then search and find out what readings you should have. I know you can find it easy, as I have.
P.S. - this may just be a random thought of a crazy tired young man with dreams of science in his eyes. Until it's been tested, who knows?
P.P.S. - If anyone has any input on what I said, I'd be so happy to hear it.
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grimeyobject
Mello Fellow




Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 146
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: grimeyobject]
#11713832 - 12/24/09 07:35 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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BTW - If your filters ate too loose you can lose too much humidity through them, but it would have to be pretty loose to lose that much.
Come on, who else is impressed that I didn't mix up those two words?
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cyantific
Trusted Masturbator


Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 1,323
Loc: Shakashuri Island
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: grimeyobject]
#11713856 - 12/24/09 07:40 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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condensation is useless in determining rh ... the only thing it means is you are losing humidity from offset temps inside and outside your tub/fc ...
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xbrutalx233
Learner



Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1,001
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: grimeyobject]
#11713895 - 12/24/09 07:51 PM (15 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
grimeyobject said: When you saturate it's too much. If you're trying to raise RH then mist once or twice every few hours without completely removing lid, i.e. crack lid and spray to the best of your ability a few mists, and reseal. Unless you've totally drilled out your FC and the water is evaporating too quickly then this should help. When the walls start to condensate under your FCs' STP (standard temp. and press., i.e. your regular temp and pressure has been steady for a while, that reading of temp and pressure would be your STP. I know IUPAC and NIST standards are different. All you need to read it is a barometer in your tank too, and they're small gauges like all the rest, and quite handy in meteorology to boot,) and hold drips, you're getting real close. Slow the spray down a bi until those drips begin to run down your tank like little rivers. This is usual desired saturation for monotubs or humidity for FCs. When a FC (or any ecosystem) is kept at a STP then you can accurately judge what is condensation from high RH and what is there from difference in air temp(i.e. "sweating" like many toilets do in summer). If you are scientific enough about it the obvious signs are there, and not just mystery.
I know I have few posts, and I know this method can be controversial, however with all my scientific knowledge backing me I can be quite certain that this micro-ecosystem can be regulated just like any other. If you can control temp, pressure, and RH, hell, you could make it (theoretically) have a layer of warm fog over the entire pinning surface for all I care. They do it in micro-ecosystem generators(weather simulators) so why can't you? All you need is a way to regulate pressure. This probably isn't practical for your purposes, however. So what you should do is learn how to predict what will happen to your environment with changes to the STP (usually pressure changes in atmosphere) and RH so you can visually identify when to water. Most people call this "getting to know what the fungus needs" and it occurs with experience.
The easy way to get to know when to mist the air to raise the RH is by setting up a wet bulb/dry bulb humidistadt. Then search and find out what readings you should have. I know you can find it easy, as I have.
P.S. - this may just be a random thought of a crazy tired young man with dreams of science in his eyes. Until it's been tested, who knows?
P.P.S. - If anyone has any input on what I said, I'd be so happy to hear it.
That was really thorough haha... thanks for the info
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grimeyobject
Mello Fellow




Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 146
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: cyantific]
#11714056 - 12/24/09 08:42 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
cyantific said: condensation is useless in determining rh ... the only thing it means is you are losing humidity from offset temps inside and outside your tub/fc ...
Yes, however, if inside and outside temps AND pressures are monitored and taken into consideration, you should be able to tell almost exactly how much of the condensation you see is actually from temperature differential and actual condensation from near 100% saturation. You should be able to determine from that how much moisture you've lost due to each, and how much to add, as you should know how much water is actually in the air and be able to calculate from that, provided you collect the condensation and measure it.
Just as example, I lived in a fog zone and I can attest to how water can lay on smooth surfaces and form condensation even if both sides are at the same temp and pressure. I had a piece of glass thrust into some moss outside and it would gather condensation during fog. If you were to break fog down, it happens when "the difference between temperature and dew point is generally less than 2.5 °C or 4 °F." (Wiki page on fog). Dew point is a saturation point based around temperature and pressure. Therefor, it is safe to conclude that, if all factors for the condensation are taken into consideration, condensation may be good enough to go by for RH. You just need the values and the formulas, just like algebra. If one value is missing from the formula, you can find the value through deduction and simplification of the formula.
Post-thought - I'm tired, and out of it. I could be just spouting off. I think I may be on to something here, though. who knows, we may all be weighing our tanks, taking temperature, pressure, and maybe even wet/dry bulb RH readings and recording values constantly, letting a computer figure out exactly whats in what, whats going on, and how to keep it right for us.
Edited by grimeyobject (12/24/09 08:45 PM)
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: grimeyobject]
#11714074 - 12/24/09 08:47 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Your face is a hygrometer.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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grimeyobject
Mello Fellow




Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 146
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: anonjon]
#11714128 - 12/24/09 09:03 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
anonjon said: Your face is a hygrometer.
If tested against other means of known accurate measuring and found accurate itself, then yes, your face could be.
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faceyneck
Legitimate Philosopher



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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: xbrutalx233]
#11714133 - 12/24/09 09:04 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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So, are you curious on what you should continue to do for this flush? Or, are you curious on what you should do after the pins you do have, mature?
I personally have had zero luck with traditional monotubs so far. Yet, with trays in greenhouses, or piping a cool mist in to monotubs, and running it almost like a Poor Man's Pod, I rarely get a contamination before I toss the substrate out, after numerous flushes.
Is this a multispore grow? I assume so. How much experience do you have growing this particular strain?
If this is multispore, and you don't have much experience with this strain, it may very well be, that the strain(s) you have growing in your monotub, produce knots easily, but don't have much of a desire to mature past that point. I had a multispore grow of Pink Buffalo that did the same thing. After 3 weeks of hyphal knots, it finally threw off some pins. By that point, I was too damned pissed off, and tossed the two trays. If we assume something like that's going on, then yeah, definitely do the wax paper thing. Hell, regardless, it certainly won't hurt anything.
Definitely consider getting a cool mist and piping it in. Where I live, the elevation is so high, that the mushroom mycelium grows considerably slower than it should, and needs more FAE and moisture than you're going to get in a monotub, without either piping in a cool mist, or fanning and misting at least 5+ times a day. I mean, seriously. I don't want to do that!
I also recently had a tray of multispore Malabar Coast, that produced quite a few pins and knots, and then just sat there for weeks! Stalled out! Then, I moved those trays to a different greenhouse, which I cut the amount of fog being put into, and lo and behold, they finally matured! I have yet to get this strain to produce decent-sized mushrooms, and this was no exception. However, it was definitely a learning experience. What had ended up happening - and I'm not sure why - was the Malabar Coast trays became waterlogged. Then, when I put them into the 'dryer' greenhouse, they went ahead and matured. Weird. So, if something like that's happening, then rigging up the cool mist will cause more problems than good.
...in regards to the condensation issue: to a certain extent, condensation on the sides of your tub, FC, or whatever, IS an indicator of appropriate moisture content. I say this because; if we assume that we have close to ideal conditions -i.e., room temperature, 95-100% RH, etc.- then the substrate should be producing a significant amount of heat and evaporation. The sides of the tub will be room temperature, and therefore cooler, and water droplets should form, since the air in the container is at or very near saturation, depending on temperature. If the water droplets aren't there, it doesn't necessarily follow that things are amiss, but chances are high, that it is in fact, NOT, moist enough.
Hope that helps.
-------------------- Anything posted here, is total bullshit.
My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ
New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here.
We give cultivation advice here.
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xbrutalx233
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: faceyneck]
#11714208 - 12/24/09 09:22 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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I've grown this strain a while back, I think just about the same thing happened. It's from a LC which came from a Multispore... I grew pink buffalo my last grow, It grew pretty well, uneven pin sets though... This one is just driving me nuts... I was just curious what to do in general... I think I'll try misting more tomorrow and see if it helps.
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: xbrutalx233]
#11715690 - 12/25/09 05:08 AM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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try warming it up a bit and see if it helps the primordia develop more
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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xbrutalx233
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: anonjon]
#11716832 - 12/25/09 12:46 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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More than 76? What do you think would be a good temp to try?
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tush2
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: xbrutalx233]
#11717106 - 12/25/09 02:16 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
xbrutalx233 said: More than 76? What do you think would be a good temp to try?
how come people always ask for more information about the worst advise they get?
-------------------- I've known you since before the dinosaurs had feathers
mushrooms are something you do while you're waiting for your cacti to grow...
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faceyneck
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: tush2]
#11717493 - 12/25/09 04:11 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
how come people always ask for more information about the worst advise they get?
-------------------- Anything posted here, is total bullshit.
My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ
New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here.
We give cultivation advice here.
AMU Q & A - We're glad to help
My Doggy Door Greenhouse! First Ever Shmuvbox Tek! Do Manure Right!
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faceyneck
Legitimate Philosopher



Registered: 06/14/06
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Re: What should I do on the next flush? [Re: xbrutalx233]
#11717496 - 12/25/09 04:13 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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...but seriously, 76 degrees is great, so long as we're not talking celcius!
-------------------- Anything posted here, is total bullshit.
My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ
New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here.
We give cultivation advice here.
AMU Q & A - We're glad to help
My Doggy Door Greenhouse! First Ever Shmuvbox Tek! Do Manure Right!
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