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Offlinedjamor
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Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 95
Loc: rocky mountains
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Flat tax - good or bad?
    #1171274 - 12/26/02 12:30 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

My father believes strongly in a flat 15 - 20% sales tax on all purchases. No income tax, no money withheld from paychecks. Those who consume would pay more taxes because they use more or buy more. Those who choose to live simply would pay relatively little.
I have mixed feelings about it, but I find it to be interesting. What do you people think?


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Anonymous

Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: djamor]
    #1171315 - 12/26/02 01:00 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

That would completely destroy the federal inccome.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: djamor]
    #1171403 - 12/26/02 01:42 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Sadly there needs to be some type of tax. A national sales tax is in my opinion, the best choice.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: djamor]
    #1171521 - 12/26/02 02:52 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)


My father believes strongly in a flat 15 - 20% sales tax on all purchases. No income tax, no money withheld from paychecks. Those who consume would pay more taxes because they use more or buy more. Those who choose to live simply would pay relatively little.


I'm all for the simplification and lessening of taxes. The possible downfall of only
having a sales tax as the income for a nation, is that a large amount of people
would engage in black market manufacturing and selling. Which would mean
that it is possible that the government would miss out on a lot of revenue.

I think we should have a federal income tax and a state income tax. But, they
should be simplified. No more deductions or loopholes. You would pay a certain
percentage of your income and that is it. And, we should have a state sales tax
as well. So in summary, we should have those three taxes, and no others(in
my opinion).

Although if we were to simplify all of this stuff, the accounting industry would
become obselete. So my mom would be out of a job(she is an accountant).

RandalFlagg


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: djamor]
    #1171610 - 12/26/02 04:06 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i'm in favor of a consumption tax and that's it....


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: djamor]
    #1174660 - 12/28/02 05:43 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I would love to see a flat sales tax, but as Immaculate said, that would destry the federal income. Rather than having to work with less money, within its bounds, the federal government would never let this happen.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Registered: 06/30/01
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Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: djamor]
    #1176125 - 12/28/02 09:58 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The flat tax is a bad idea. It is not really flat, but taxes the poor at a higher rate than the wealthy. I'll explain...

Man A has an income of 1,500 dollars per month.

Man B has an income of 150,000 dollars per month.

They each spend 50 dollars per month on gasoline going to work and home. For the sake of discussion and having nice round numbers lets say that the tax on that gas is 15 dollars.

Man A has paid 1/100th of his monthly income on the flat tax.

Man B has paid 1/10,000th of his monthly income on the flat tax.

In this examply the poor man is being taxed at a rate 100 times higher than the rich man. This is no far fetched example either.

Taxes should remain as they are now, based on the ability to pay. This way those who can afford to pay more do, and those who can't don't.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1176127 - 12/28/02 09:59 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Good post ^^^^ :wink:


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator
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Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1176322 - 12/29/02 12:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

RE: Rail_gun

You raise good point. People who are rich are some of these things: Hard workers, lucky,smart,creative,born into it, but in all cases live in a place where it is possible to become rich. Bill Gates no matter how brilliant would probably not be where he is now had he been born in Angola. So paying back to a society that has made your huge riches possible isn't a bad thing.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: djamor]
    #1176379 - 12/29/02 02:14 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Great post, great responses by everyone. Five shrooms. We should be rewarded for buying and consuming less.

I tend to side with the counter-consumption idea, though I hear RF's point about the black market.

I'd like to hear more about what immaculate and stonedfish mean about fedtax

And of course, Rail Gun's example is a show stopper.

IOW: I'm sooooo confused. An idea seems to have potential, but these counter-examples show up--what now???



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Anonymous

Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1176779 - 12/29/02 08:50 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Rail_Gun you bring up a good point about a flat sales tax. Another idea is a flat income tax - everyone is charged at the same rate, say 20%. This eliminates the "poor being overtaxed" arguement, because everyone is NOT paying the same in dollar amounts. Plus, it leaves the government with money even when no one is consuming.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
BTH
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,449
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1176793 - 12/29/02 08:57 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Over time the salary of the average Joe would go down if taxes werent taken out...


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG          C8.com                    http://www.beatsopjefiets.com/   


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Flat tax - good or bad? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1178407 - 12/29/02 11:11 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Posted by stonedfish:
Rail_Gun you bring up a good point about a flat sales tax. Another idea is a flat income tax - everyone is charged at the same rate, say 20%. This eliminates the "poor being overtaxed" arguement, because everyone is NOT paying the same in dollar amounts. Plus, it leaves the government with money even when no one is consuming.




The origional poster and all the follow ups by others such as Innvertigo refered to the consumption/sales flat tax which taxes low income individuals at a higher percentage of their income than the wealthy.

There a true story I'm fond of. Jesus is watching people go in to the temple and rich men go in and drop gold coins in the collection. And old widow woman goes in and drops in a copper coin, a penny. Jesus said that the widow gave more than all the rich because she gave out of her necessity and the rich gave out of their surplus. I think this same principle should be applied to any taxation system for utmost fairness.

The flat income tax can work but I firmly believe that if the tax rate for the poor is one cent more than 10% that it is inherently immoral. At 20% the poor are being overtaxed. It's not right to make someone that can barely pay their rent and put food on the table to pay more then 10% of their income in tax. You see the poor pay out of their necessity, the rich pay out of their surplus, it's not depriving them.

I pick 10% simply because of it's traditional and biblical rate of THE flat tax in Irael during early biblical times. I don't think it would be right for a government to tell the poor to pay more than God tells them.

Not everyone shares my views on such moral matters since they're faith based, especially on this board, but it's hard to argue my opinion on retaining the progressive tax system would be immoral or not well thought out.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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