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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11715067 - 12/25/09 12:51 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

That the entities are truly external or that I'm trying to rationally explain these experiences?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #11715086 - 12/25/09 12:55 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tranquil Toad said:
There is quantum non-locality. Particle A can effect particle B at a distance instantaneously at a distance, faster than the speed of light.




Kind of.  Entanglement doesn't violate relativity and it does not provide a means of communicating anything faster than light.  It does not allow for faster than light travel and is not a possible explanation for visits from ETs, corporeal or not.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11715091 - 12/25/09 12:56 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
That the entities are truly external or that I'm trying to rationally explain these experiences?




That you are trying to rationally explain these experiences.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11715101 - 12/25/09 12:59 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I've experienced contact with entities before but I'm not sure what to make of it.  Regardless of whether it was an autonomous complex of my subconscious or an actual extraterrestrial I still believe there is a rational explanation for every event.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11715123 - 12/25/09 01:04 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Sure, Id like to think that too.  Im not sure those hypoteticals you were throwing out were very rational though.  Sometime the rational conclusion contradicts our belief system, or is even embarrassing.  Sometimes its easier to invent hypotheticals rather than apply occams razor.  I think that is what is happening here.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Posts: 56,232
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11715138 - 12/25/09 01:11 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I guess I'm defining an irrational explanation as an explanation that's not logically possible.  I like to think that so far I've stayed within the grounds of possibility though I may have certainly strayed into the grounds of improbability.  At any rate I still believe that we can't possibly fathom what future technology is capable of.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11715155 - 12/25/09 01:16 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The grounds of possibility are so unimaginably large, I dont think its worthwhile to explore them much.  The grounds of probability are where knowledge and wisdom lie, possibility is the realm of the foolish.

From the clip I posted above:
Quote:

Some years ago I had a conversation with a layman about flying saucers — because I am scientific I know all about flying saucers! I said "I don't think there are flying saucers'. So my antagonist said, "Is it impossible that there are flying saucers? Can you prove that it's impossible?" "No", I said, "I can't prove it's impossible. It's just very unlikely". At that he said, "You are very unscientific. If you can't prove it impossible then how can you say that it's unlikely?" But that is the way that is scientific. It is scientific only to say what is more likely and what less likely, and not to be proving all the time the possible and impossible.




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InvisibledeCypher
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Posts: 56,232
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11715167 - 12/25/09 01:19 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I WANT TO BELIEVE, dammit.

:kingcrankey:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11715205 - 12/25/09 01:30 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Hey, thats your prerogative.  So is defining such a belief as rational.  If that is really what you want, then that is what you shall have.


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OfflineTranquil Toad
A.I. Living Inside the Internet

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 773
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Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11715207 - 12/25/09 01:31 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
The grounds of possibility are so unimaginably large, I dont think its worthwhile to explore them much.  The grounds of probability are where knowledge and wisdom lie, possibility is the realm of the foolish.

From the clip I posted above:
Quote:

Some years ago I had a conversation with a layman about flying saucers — because I am scientific I know all about flying saucers! I said "I don't think there are flying saucers'. So my antagonist said, "Is it impossible that there are flying saucers? Can you prove that it's impossible?" "No", I said, "I can't prove it's impossible. It's just very unlikely". At that he said, "You are very unscientific. If you can't prove it impossible then how can you say that it's unlikely?" But that is the way that is scientific. It is scientific only to say what is more likely and what less likely, and not to be proving all the time the possible and impossible.







Considering there are an incredible amount of sightings of these objects, what is the most probable explanation? If not E.Ts, then some natural phenomenon? Cultural wide hallucinations? Considering all the things that people could imagine or be deluded about, its strange that so many people are reporting strange craft in our skies. No other delusion or mass hallucination (aside from religion, perhaps) is prominent in our culture.


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Offlineskatealex2
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Registered: 07/04/08
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Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #11715276 - 12/25/09 01:51 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tranquil Toad said:
Considering there are an incredible amount of sightings of these objects, what is the most probable explanation? If not E.Ts, then some natural phenomenon? Cultural wide hallucinations? Considering all the things that people could imagine or be deluded about, its strange that so many people are reporting strange craft in our skies. No other delusion or mass hallucination (aside from religion, perhaps) is prominent in our culture.






aside from the countless sightings i think it is significant that the Roswell Files have never been released....  before the Roswell incident the Government used to be officially involved with ufo's for a short period time...  it was called Project Blue Book-  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Blue_Book



"Project Blue Book was one of a series of systematic studies of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) conducted by the United States Air Force (U.S.A.F.). Started in 1952, it was the second revival of such a study. A termination order was given for the study in December 1969, and all activity under its auspices ceased in January 1970.

Project Blue Book had two goals:

  1. to determine if UFOs were a threat to national security, and
  2. to scientifically analyze UFO-related data.

Thousands of UFO reports were collected, analyzed and filed. As the result of the Condon Report, which concluded there was nothing anomalous about any UFOs, Project Blue Book was ordered shut down in December 1969. This project was the last publicly known UFO research project led by the USAF.[1]

By the time Project Blue Book ended, it had collected 12,618 UFO reports, and concluded that most of them were misidentifications of natural phenomena (clouds, stars, etc.) or conventional aircraft. A few were considered hoaxes. 701 of the reports — about six percent — were classified as unknowns, defying detailed analysis.[2] The UFO reports were archived and are available under the Freedom of Information Act, but names and other personal information of all witnesses have been changed.

Post-Blue Book U.S.A.F. UFO activities

An Air Force memorandum (released via the Freedom of Information Act) dated October 20, 1969 and signed by Brigadier General C.H. Bolander states that even after Blue Book was dissolved, that "reports of UFOs" would still "continue to be handled through the standard Air Force procedure designed for this purpose." Furthermore, wrote Bolander, "Reports of unidentified flying objects which could affect national security … are not part of the Blue Book system."[3] To date, these other investigation channels, agencies or groups are unknown.

Additionally, Blum reports[8] that Freedom of Information Act requests show that the U.S. Air Force has continued to catalog and track UFO sightings, particularly a series of dozens of UFO encounters from the late 1960s to the mid-1970s that occurred at U.S. military facilities with nuclear weapons. Blum writes that some of these official documents depart drastically from the normally dry and bureaucratic wording of government paperwork, making obvious the sense of "terror" that these UFO incidents inspired in many U.S.A.F. personnel.
"


Edited by skatealex2 (12/25/09 02:14 AM)


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11715434 - 12/25/09 02:36 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Also, remember that relativity doesnt just restrict matter to sub light speeds, it restricts any and all information to sub light speeds



What about tachyons?

Edit: nevermind, I see it's already been adressed :thumbup:


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Offlinenice1
Not the droid your looking for
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Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 26 days
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11715881 - 12/25/09 07:20 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Your problem is that you flat out deny human experience despite the implications of said experiences.

People all over the world having extremely similar experiences of craft with lights and aliens which usually are the same.  In several cases the people seeing these things had never been exposed to the media etc etc

You just flat out disregard this.

As I keep saying it doesn't matter how much you think this shouldn't / can't be happening because it is happening and nobody has come up with a more reasonable explanation.

You can put it down to mass hallucination and lies but I'm telling you - you have not studied the phenomena properly if you conclude that because the phenomena consistently proves this to be wrong.

IMO the most reasonable explaination is that exactly what appears to be happening IS happening.

It takes bigger leaps of logic to conclude that the entire world is having a mass hallucination or in on some mass hoax.


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: nice1]
    #11716361 - 12/25/09 10:32 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Like I said, it would be asinine to claim that there are no such thing as unidentified flying objects.  But the point is that they are unidentified.

Why  'unidentified' should be automatically equated with 'extraterrestrial' is completely beyond me.


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11716367 - 12/25/09 10:33 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Once we know they are extraterrestrial, they become IFOs.


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: Shroomism]
    #11716377 - 12/25/09 10:35 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

:awesomenod:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11716407 - 12/25/09 10:49 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I don't call them UFOs, I just call them beamships


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Offlinenice1
Not the droid your looking for
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Registered: 09/26/09
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Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11716466 - 12/25/09 11:06 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Its a reasonable assumption.

We could assume they are all hoaxed.

Truth is the UFO phenomena covers all of these things (hoaxes, misidenifications, man-made devices, craft of unknown origin etc) but if you study the phenomena then you are referring to the outstanding incidents, the ones that are certainly not hoaxes. 

In the cases of these outstanding incidents it is reasonable to guess the craft to be ET because of the amount of people who have encountered their occupants.  Although its possible these ET's are actually extra-dimensional or even us from the future as one person here stated earlier.

The only thing I'm personally certain of is that there are advanced space craft that are not hoaxes or delusions and in light of the phenomena as a whole unlikely to all be secret man-made craft.:sun:


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: nice1]
    #11716492 - 12/25/09 11:14 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nice1 said:
Its a reasonable assumption.

We could assume they are all hoaxed.

Truth is the UFO phenomena covers all of these things (hoaxes, misidenifications, man-made devices, craft of unknown origin etc) but if you study the phenomena then you are referring to the outstanding incidents, the ones that are certainly not hoaxes. 

In the cases of these outstanding incidents it is reasonable to guess the craft to be ET because of the amount of people who have encountered their occupants.  Although its possible these ET's are actually extra-dimensional or even us from the future as one person here stated earlier.

The only thing I'm personally certain of is that there are advanced space craft that are not hoaxes or delusions and in light of the phenomena as a whole unlikely to all be secret man-made craft.:sun:




:thumbup:


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Posts: 10,207
Re: Do you believe there will be a UFO / ET disclosure soon?? [Re: nice1]
    #11716584 - 12/25/09 11:41 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nice1 said:
Its a reasonable assumption.

We could assume they are all hoaxed.

Truth is the UFO phenomena covers all of these things (hoaxes, misidenifications, man-made devices, craft of unknown origin etc) but if you study the phenomena then you are referring to the outstanding incidents, the ones that are certainly not hoaxes.



I'm not saying that they're all hoaxes.  I'm talking about the same "outstanding incidents" you are.  To me, it seems like an extremely irrational leap from unexplained to extraterrestrial.

Quote:

In the cases of these outstanding incidents it is reasonable to guess the craft to be ET because of the amount of people who have encountered their occupants.



...and yet somehow nearly every encounter fits the symptoms of sleep paralysis almost exactly.  Between sleep paralysis and various not-uncommon drug experiences, I think it's safe to say that the human mind is wired to be prone to imagining exactly the type of entity that people describe.


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