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OfflineBrad-ZA
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South African Mushroom 2
    #11710757 - 12/24/09 08:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I'm posting a number of ID Requests because I just can't find them.
Think this is a Gymnopilus


Habitat:
In the shade, in soil, no plant material or manure, all by himself.


Gills:
Cream.

Stem:


Cap:


Spore print color:
No Samples.

Bruising:
Orange.

Other information:
Smells like a Mushroom.

These little guys


Habitat:
In Soil, on footpaths.


Gills / Stem:


Cap:

Spore print color:
No Samples.

Bruising:
Couldn't see any color changes

Edited by Brad-ZA (12/25/09 06:43 AM)

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InvisibleBretdaniel
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Brad-ZA]
    #11710965 - 12/24/09 09:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Top one looks like Lepiota aspera or something close Bottom looks like a mix of Panaelous sp.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Brad-ZA]
    #11711067 - 12/24/09 10:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The top one could be Lepiota, Chlorophyllum or Amanita.  Interesting mushroom, you should get some better pics of it and post it on mushroomobserver.org.

The second one is Panaeolus papilionaceus and Deconica coprophila.  The Panaeolus is probably inactive and the Deconica is inactive for sure.

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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11711258 - 12/24/09 10:56 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

deconica coprophila eh? i knew it was some coprophila by those distant gills. are deconica  more orange that a psilocybe coprophila? i think i may have those growing here too.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #11711370 - 12/24/09 11:19 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Deconica is the genus for inactive Psilocybes as of a couple weeks ago.

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OfflineBrad-ZA
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Brad-ZA]
    #11712326 - 12/24/09 02:21 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry guys I don't know if I'm meant to reply individually or whatever, I've never gotten along with forums lol

Thanks for the help, I'll try get some more pics but this it the only one I found, and next day it must have been eaten by something because there were no signs of it anywhere

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OfflineLuckOfTheFryish
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Brad-ZA]
    #11712587 - 12/24/09 03:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

for the first one my money is on lepiota or chlorophyllum. i dont think its an amanita but it very well could be


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: LuckOfTheFryish]
    #11712621 - 12/24/09 03:12 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

ah ok so deconica is for say coprophilas,semiglobattas,squamosas,thruastas,montanas, aeruginosas and such?
thanks world spirit for clearing that up for me.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #11712823 - 12/24/09 03:43 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup: Yes.

The only problem that Dr. Gaston Guzman will have, (who is presently finishing up his book The Genus Psilocybe), is with species in Psilocybe that are currently described as "inactive or weakly active."

I can't wait to see what comes of that.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: World Spirit]
    #11712843 - 12/24/09 03:47 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

rDNA sequencing will answer that question pretty easily.  The bluing Psilocybes aren't closely related to the non-bluing ones.

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11712879 - 12/24/09 03:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Is Guzman relying on rDNA sequencing to categorize between Psilocybe and Deconica?

Also, let's take for example two separate collections of say Psilocybe atrobrunnea. One is blatantly active and has been confirmed in bioassay despite no visible bluing reaction. The other collection has no bluing reaction and following bioassay is determined to be inactive. Will both collections reveal identical rDNA sequencing results?

Edited by World Spirit (12/25/09 05:17 AM)

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: World Spirit]
    #11712929 - 12/24/09 04:02 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If both collections are accurately identified, then the sequences will come out very very close if not exactly the same (depending on what sort of sequencing is used, and if the two collections have been geographically separated for a long time, etc.).


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: World Spirit]
    #11712994 - 12/24/09 04:13 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Is Guzman relying on rDNA sequencing to categorize between Psilocybe and Deconica?





Well I sure hope so.  You could email him and ask.


Quote:

Also, let's take for example two separate collections of say Psilocybe altrobrunnea. One is blatantly active and has been confirmed in bioassay despite no visible bluing reaction. The other collection has no bluing reaction and following bioassay is determined to be inactive. Will both collections reveal identical rDNA sequencing results?




Is that a hypotheical situation?

One of the collections is clearly misidentified.

And the sequences would probably be different.

But its possible that there is a tiny mutation that causes it not to make psilocybin, but its still the same species and the parts of the DNA that are compared may not differ in that case.  But a case like that has never happened - I don't know of any inactive collections of active mushrooms.

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11713135 - 12/24/09 04:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Hypothetical. I'm just basing this on Stamets' 1996 notes in his book. There has been plenty of commentary leaning toward the existence of species that have the ability to produce active and inactive collections. I've also read from Gartz of mushroom hunters cooking inactive species only to have found an active edible.

I didn't buy into any of this until learning earlier this year that a deadly Galerina existed that also contains psilocybin, which makes no sense from a religious person's perspective. It's almost like God is saying, "Anything and everything is possible - even in regard to fungi."

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: World Spirit]
    #11713179 - 12/24/09 04:56 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

There has been plenty of commentary leaning toward the existence of species that have the ability to produce active and inactive collections.





I would call them different species at that point.  The chemical difference is significant, just find 2 more differences and you can call it something else.

Quote:

I didn't buy into any of this until learning earlier this year that a deadly Galerina existed that also contains psilocybin, which makes no sense from a religious person's perspective. It's almost like God is saying, "Anything and everything is possible - even in regard to fungi."




There are no deadly Galerinas that contain psilocybin.  There is at least one hallucinogenic Galerina that contains psilocybin.



http://www.mushroomobserver.org/22405

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11713394 - 12/24/09 05:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well I'm glad we're talking about this species, because there is an extraordinary oversight of it in the literature and online. I didn't even vaguely know anything about it til someone on this site brought it up earlier this year, and for some reason I thought it still had the toxins of the deadly Galerinas.

I am still unclear if there is anything toxic or harmful about steglichii or if it's harmless. I see no bioassays nor chemical analysis other than the 8-sample collection cited on the Lycaeum from the mid nineties. (http://www.lycaeum.org/leda/docs/10423.shtml?ID=10423)

If it is harmless (is it?), I would urge Guzman and everyone in the classification arts to place this in Psilocybe for the sake of proper association, not strict genus placement for the sake of strict genus placement.

If you happen to have any other citations I'd enjoy reading up on it.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: World Spirit]
    #11713454 - 12/24/09 05:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I am still unclear if there is anything toxic or harmful about steglichii or if it's harmless.





There are no psilocybin mushrooms that contain other toxins.

Quote:

If it is harmless (is it?), I would urge Guzman and everyone in the classification arts to place this in Psilocybe for the sake of proper association, not strict genus placement for the sake of strict genus placement.




There is no way to put a Galerina into Psilocybe.  The spore color is wrong, pileipellis is wrong, cystidia is wrong, and the DNA doesn't match up.  If you tried to put that mushroom into Psilocybe, it would get laughed out immediately.

There are many psilocybin mushrooms that are not in Psilocybe, you will have to accept that.

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Offlinecanid
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #11714248 - 12/24/09 09:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

seriously. placing mushrooms arbitrarily for sake of convenience is part of what has made such a mess of taxonomy to begin with.

it took me a long time to get on board but i see no good reason to classify organisms in any way other than one which describes, or tries best to describe real relationships.

for my money, that is cladistics, but if a hierarchical system is to be used, it should at least approximate the tree well.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: Brad-ZA]
    #11714260 - 12/24/09 09:32 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Where in South Africa?  I was born in Cape Town :grin:

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Offlinedodeski
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: World Spirit]
    #11714821 - 12/24/09 11:59 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

World Spirit said:
Deconica is the genus for inactive Psilocybes as of a couple weeks ago.


could this info be sourced i would like to find out when and where this info is published. I like to try and keep up when possible.

What ever happened to the active Ps. getting the reclassification to werora, or how ever they where going to spell it.


--------------------
"People use the word "natural" ... What is natural to me are these botanical species which interact directly with the nervous system. What I consider artificial is 4 years at Harvard, and the Bible, and Saint Patrick's cathedral, and the Sunday school teachings."
-Timothy Leary

“You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness.”
― Terence McKenna

"In defying the authority we become the authorities"
- Unknown

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Offlineelprawn
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: dodeski]
    #11714914 - 12/25/09 12:13 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I thought Psilocybe montana was the type species?

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: elprawn]
    #11715173 - 12/25/09 01:21 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: CureCat]
    #11715270 - 12/25/09 01:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

what happens to semilanceata?i dont really consider it a bluing psilocybe even though its quite potent. other than that i cant think of anymore that dont blue and are potent. maybe pelliculosas and silvaticas but they arent very strong.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #11715344 - 12/25/09 02:10 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Read the thread linked to above.


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Offlinedodeski
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: CureCat]
    #11715394 - 12/25/09 02:25 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CureCat said:
PROP. 1757, to conserve the name Psilocybe



Oh!, cool cool. glad to know that people think like i do sometimes. It would be hard to get used to calling them something after, practically all my life, calling them something else.


--------------------
"People use the word "natural" ... What is natural to me are these botanical species which interact directly with the nervous system. What I consider artificial is 4 years at Harvard, and the Bible, and Saint Patrick's cathedral, and the Sunday school teachings."
-Timothy Leary

“You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness.”
― Terence McKenna

"In defying the authority we become the authorities"
- Unknown

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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: dodeski]
    #11716328 - 12/25/09 10:21 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

haha sorry, i didnt realise it was a link.
merry xmas by the way. :smile:


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #11716354 - 12/25/09 10:30 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
haha sorry, i didnt realise it was a link.



Yeah I am sorry about that...  This stupid holiday layout makes the links the same colour (white) as the text.  I noticed it is hard to tell what is a link, so for today I have started linking things using the URL only.  :rolleyes:


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Offlinecptguy
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Re: South African Wild Mushroom 2 [Re: CureCat]
    #11826458 - 01/14/10 12:37 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Where were those shrooms found in SA? I have seen similar ones to those small shrooms when I was in the Overberg last year. There was about 100 of them under some trees, I was upset that I didnt have my camera with to take a pic :frown:
Of course not knowing what kind they are, I left them where they were.

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