Home | Community | Message Board


The Spore Depot
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Have we changed?
    #1170316 - 12/25/02 07:42 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

This was in another thread... I didn't want to shift the focus of that thread, so...

Murex: It's really interesting how American soicety has changed as a result of 9/11. I myself find it almost humerous.

I'm not so sure American society HAS changed. I think it/we just RESPONDED.
The sad truth of it all is that we probably DIDN'T change. Slapping the stars and stripes on your bumper doesn't make you a good person... yet that's just what everyone thought it was doing.

There's so much to say... but I think we can start here.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibledee_N_ae
\/\/¡†¢h |-|øµ§³ ¢å†
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 2,473
Loc: The Shadow of Neptune
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1170453 - 12/25/02 09:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

After the initial shock of seeing thousands of people die on live tv....well...I'm not sure if we've all entirely put that behind us.

This might sound a bit off, but on that morning I kind of felt like I'd been waiting my entire life for something like that to happen.

Something big.
Something HUGE.
Something that would change things forever...
And that's what we heard on the news so many times.

"This, folks, changes everything. Forever. America, nay, THE WORLD will never, ever, ever be the same.  Ever.  We're facing a new threat, a hidden threat....blah blah."

Simply put I think the general news reading populace is in a state of prolonged shock.
With references to "since 9/11" poppoing up all over, it remains on the forefront of many people's thoughts nationwide.
When it wears off, and I think it has been, more and more people will start to openly question the Bush administration.

What ever happened to Bin Laden?
Afghanistan is a barren bomb crater and now we're supposed to be all flustered about Saddam and his invisible Weapons of Mass Destruction?

"One country down, X more to go until that pesky (Bush created) Axis of Evil is dead!!!"

Oh, and guess what. 
Despite what we've all seen and heard over the years, the FBI, CIA and NSA are actually really behind in technology and need more money and workers to monitor the world to protect us from EVIL...
Oh, and... they need the ability to monitor the library system to see who checks out certain EVIL books, as well as other constituion-raping rights granted to them as a result of Bush's new found concern for "Homeland Security".  Yes it's all for our own good, of course. 


If I lived in another country I would think:
"Those Americans must be bloodthirsty."

Or maybe we are just that sick(stupid,lazy,ignorant,blind)...?
Well, I certainly don't think so.
Will we allow Bush and Co. to blantantly murder more people in our name so that they can have more oil and money all to themselves and we can continue living in an ever exapanding, world wide consumer wasteland owned by an insanely small number of coperate conglomerates?

I say no.  :wink:       


Edited by dee_N_ae (12/25/02 09:06 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 months, 28 days
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1170491 - 12/25/02 09:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I never got the point of putting flags on your house or your car. What does that do, anyways?

Was it anything more than a cheap way of trying to look like you were doing something meaningful?

How much money did you spend on flags? Why didn't you just give that to the charity for the families of dead WTC workers? Or to aid groups in Afghanistan?

Putting a flag on your car or your house is such an empty gesture. It's almost disrespectful in its purposlesness.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Edited by Phluck (12/25/02 09:50 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGrav
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Phluck]
    #1170580 - 12/26/02 12:25 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Seems like it's just some sort of tribal markings. A small blotch of colors to make each other feel unified. A sense of comfort and programmed national 'pride'.
I wouldn't have anything against it if I thought the U.S. was anything to be the least little bit proud of.

To me it sort of sends the message that you're not one to use your brain that well.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Have we changed? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1170592 - 12/26/02 12:51 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Great thread Schlorch! It is very thought-provoking.

Here's my take on it. Depends, just like the adult diaper.

I'd say as a collection of people it altered the psyche of the American people. But did it do so permanently is another story. I am not sure. It is certainly true that it altered the lives of many people, permanently. I am quite sure that New Yorkers in general are different today than they were before the attack. If nothing else they are more leary, and with good cause.

This thread is a timely one for me because I didn't see any video of the tragedy until Christmas. I do not have a TV and so I was insulated from the entire thing. That was good. As it was with the limited information I had it knocked me off my feet. I don't care to speculate what would have happened to me if I were to have watched the drama unfold before my very eyes. One of my Christmas presents was the documentary of 911 by CNN.

So I watched it, and I cried.

I have watched the people in public since the attack very closely to see how they responded. I noticed some very interesting things. I saw the shock wave that went through people on the first day and watched the Internet and noticed that nearly no one made assholish comments. Then at about the third day some comments started to show up as people began to normalize. Even this Christmas season where I live people were kinder to one another.

Notably, for good or evil, we elected a majority in Congress from the same political party as the President during his midterm and that is very rare. I think it is proof positive that there is something different in the American people. Also in our county we elected the first county commissioner from that party in 26 years.

Did it make us better people? I doubt it, but there is that possibility.

Tragedy is no cure-all for making anyone a better person. One only needs to watch a person go through it and see the various responses. Some become stronger and some wither away. Some become kinder and some bitter.

I would have hoped, more than anything, that the attack would have made the American people think, think deeper and introspectively. I have seen little evidence of that.

5 for the thread.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1170657 - 12/26/02 03:48 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Nothing has change and nothing will change, in terms of our human condition, did ww1 change anything or ww2, Vietnam?
American monkeys are no different than Iraqi monkeys or any other monkey in this world.(for all of you that think we are the good apes please wake up)
Just the other day I was taking with my neighbor, she was telling that when she was little the nazis came to her home stole all her family values destroyed her property and had them confined living in a basement for years, the saddest story I ever heard, you can see almost tears coming from her eyes.
2 minutes later she was telling me she was all for the total destruction of Iraq and Palestine, and that American should nuke them all.
I did not say anything to the old lady, but I keep thinking wow you would think after all her suffering that will change a person, will make her more sympathetic to others suffering, but no, if she could she will be the one to strike first with the sword.
I am almost out of hope with us Humans.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1171552 - 12/26/02 03:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I cannot speak for the greater "we", however I can say that,yes I have changed.What was a vague suspicion of our ruling elite has become full blown distrust and a growing certainty that much of what takes place in the public eye is little more than slight of hand.Not to trivialize events of 9/11,but so much of the official reaction seems well planned to the point it seems there must have been advanced knowlege.So in the fact that I now view our government to be a larger danger than Iraq I have changed(and IMHO so have many others)

As to society as a hole(pun intended :grin:) I don't think we are any different than any large herd of humans in that war and violence are in human nature therefore will be expressed.Just as love and compassion are also expressed.

I believe the major change in humanity came when we gained the ability to kill at a distance,gaining insulation from the actual death of the enemy,as well as insulation from much of the emotional effect of taking life.This allows destructive emotions to accelerate without the emotional braking force of the in your face reality of taking a life.

So Sclorch I would have to say at this point IMO we have NOT changed we are just more free to express the destructive emotions of war.

The reactions of altruism also I do not believe to be unique to 9/11 either but rather a survival reaction of most societies under stress. Stress it seems brings out the best and worst in a population as if extremes are necessary to create the most survival scenarios for that society.

Another thought I've had is that folks I know have had a smoldering resentment over government which now has a new focus Terrorism, and much of the anger which was focused inward is now focused at the nebulous threat of terrorists.This has given the government a free hand it would not have had otherwise and silenced much opposition.This is bound to change our society and eventualy it's members. So have we changed since 9/11 not much.......yet .
Great thread Sclorch definately something folks should be thinking about :wink: WR


--------------------
To old for this place


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1172106 - 12/26/02 06:52 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Most people in America are even more easily manipulated and lied to by the leaders and the media, than they we're before 9/11. Many of our rights are being taken away. The Bush administration is wiping it's ass with the constitution. People need to wake up. Check these out:

http://www.stop-fascism.org/oia.htm
http://www.stop-fascism.org/tips.htm
http://www.stop-fascism.org/official_government_projects.htm

I am afraid of what's going to happen in this country.


--------------------
Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: Have we changed? [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1172116 - 12/26/02 06:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

What ever happened to Bin Laden?
Afghanistan is a barren bomb crater and now we're supposed to be all flustered about Saddam and his invisible Weapons of Mass Destruction?

"One country down, X more to go until that pesky (Bush created) Axis of Evil is dead!!!"

Oh, and guess what.
Despite what we've all seen and heard over the years, the FBI, CIA and NSA are actually really behind in technology and need more money and workers to monitor the world to protect us from EVIL...
Oh, and... they need the ability to monitor the library system to see who checks out certain EVIL books, as well as other constituion-raping rights granted to them as a result of Bush's new found concern for "Homeland Security". Yes it's all for our own good, of course.


If I lived in another country I would think:
"Those Americans must be bloodthirsty."

Or maybe we are just that sick(stupid,lazy,ignorant,blind)...?
Well, I certainly don't think so.
Will we allow Bush and Co. to blantantly murder more people in our name so that they can have more oil and money all to themselves and we can continue living in an ever exapanding, world wide consumer wasteland owned by an insanely small number of coperate conglomerates?

I say no.




Like Chuck D said, you gotta fight the powers that be.

Like Karl Marx said, in a capitalist society, the state is nothing more than an administrative tool of the bourgeouisie. In the case of late-capitalist America 3M and Shell happen to be the bourgeouisie and the "administrative tool" of that elite class happens to have at its disposal a military budget higher than that of the rest of the world combined. Of course Bush is prepared to fight two wars at the same time. Piece of cake.

And the propaganda machine keeps churning, and the people the people who can still smile do so at their SUVs and x-boxes as the rich get filthier and the death count gets higher. Like Bob Dylan said. Nothing new here, except maybe the laws on the books that allow them to monitor EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO, if they ever get a mind to. But the government has been killing in the name of the machine for at least as long as long as anglo-saxons can remember, so why should we expect anything different? And a little fascism never hurt the economy, now did it?

The United States is, at its core, a protestant racist capitalist patriarchy. All four are keys to the reason why America is what it is right now, and the self-overcoming of those four defining characteristics is the only hope to stopping, what did they call it again, manifest destiny? This is a country for the rich, on the backs of the global poor. As any economically successful country is, including mine. But the US is the big one. And we are all responsible.

The whole axis of evil is merely a convenient excuse for Bush to perform his assigned task of expanding his fatherland's empire, the same task as any other figurehead monarch in history. It's an excuse along the lines of the red menace, which allowed us to gain access, militarily of course, to the vast resources of South America. There were so many of them damn darkies down there that we could easily afford to lose a few hundred thousand of them to kidnapping and execution by the governmental powers installed at our insistance. Hey they can't ALL sew Nikes for 20 cents an hour. What would those poor people do without us and the valuable jobs we provide?

Like I said, nothing new here. Nothing's changed.


Edited by sunyata (12/26/02 07:00 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1172291 - 12/26/02 07:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I also wonder why American''s hang up so many god damn flags. Us Canadians hang too many flags up too, just not as much. So Bush still hasn't caught Bin Laden, but he made sure a lot of the bearded men die anyways. I also am reminded of the bombing, one of the biggest things talked about other than the killing of a lot of people, was the economy, I thought that was kind of weird.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1172300 - 12/26/02 07:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

we'll see mcdonald's in Iraq within 10 years, most likely.... scary fuckers, these politicians :frown:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1172463 - 12/26/02 08:16 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

September 11th was very strange for me. The night before I watched Patton, and I thought to my self as I was drifting off to sleep, "I wonder when America will go to war again". I had nightmares that night about war. The next day I woke up, and my nightmares turned real. It definetely impacted me deeply, and America, and some Americans, especially those who where directly effected. But, I don't think it certainly didn't change me. I've never dwelled on bad things, but i never forget them. September 11 was just another sign of how evil man can be, and how evil the world can be.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 10 years, 14 days
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Remy]
    #1172477 - 12/26/02 08:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

But if you put a flag sticker on your car, you'll be making the world a better place.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePinkEchoes
Stranger
Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 159
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1173812 - 12/27/02 12:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

9/11 diffently changed me, it made me think about what the hell us and the americans did to provoke it, and i wanted to learn more. i first heard about it when i was in the car with my dad going to the doctors. i didnt think much of it, and when i heard about another plane and the pentagon i figured it wouldnt be major news, i was young and nieve. i still am, but im slowly inproving..i think anyway. for me 9/11 was the starting point of a new life, an educated one. i just wish everyone else went that way with me, instead all my friends are like "BUSH IS A GOD, ISLAM IS EVIL!" and other shit like that. kids are so dumb.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTinMan
Stranger

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 2,956
Loc: Russia
Re: Have we changed? [Re: PinkEchoes]
    #1173840 - 12/27/02 12:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

9-11 has made me realize... HOW STUPID PEOPLE ARE! There is such a thing as overusing flags, and people have made such a big deal about it. Not trying to sound offensive, but there are still many people who are still talking about 9-11 and haven't yet gotten over it. Its over with, been here and gone, theres no reason to keep living in 2001. Go on with life.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePinkEchoes
Stranger
Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 159
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Have we changed? [Re: TinMan]
    #1173866 - 12/27/02 12:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

i agree, its talked about way to much, and the flag thing was just annoying. but it did really change my way of thinking, now im involved in all sorts of stuff, and meeting all kinds of cool people. and im learning alot more. for sure made me realize how much the media changes peoples minds, and brain washed them completely. people are very dumb, hope i can get the hell out of this dumb hole and into the smart groove.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Have we changed? [Re: PinkEchoes]
    #1174129 - 12/27/02 03:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people." -Noam Chomsky

I would add the group "terrorists" to that list.

What's the best way to control a large group of people? Through fear.


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Have we changed? [Re: Adamist]
    #1174137 - 12/27/02 04:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people." -Noam Chomsky

I would also add the groups "businessmen," "Christians," "second amendment advocates," "conservatives," etc. to that list.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 10 years, 14 days
Re: Have we changed? [Re: PinkEchoes]
    #1174146 - 12/27/02 04:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

A flag sticker on someone's car just shows that they are stupid. If your really think about why people do it, you can come up with the answer that they are mindless idiots.

just don't seem to see the bigger pitcure. I think flags promote segragation as well as unification. After all, we are all humans on this earth right? Now I hear my mother stereotyping people who look like they could be middle-eastern. It's good to be protective and all, but you should act the same when it comes to anybody. If she had to choose between a white doctor instead of a middle-eastern doctor, she would go with the white doctor instead of sying 'I don't care.'.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Edited by Murex (12/27/02 04:52 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* I AM GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD!!!
( 1 2 all )
Frog 1,240 34 07/11/04 05:56 PM
by Panoramix
* Study: Meditation produces brain changes
( 1 2 3 all )
MountainMist 2,428 56 05/23/03 11:03 AM
by lucid
* Mushrooms helped me change LOBO 1,432 5 10/01/01 08:42 PM
by GenicsBreed
* Final Name Change Poll! (we swear)
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
deCypher 3,238 88 05/17/09 08:33 PM
by Mr. Mushrooms
* For books that change your life.
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Fraggin 3,323 75 05/11/09 08:54 AM
by Dj_sIntjsboh
* How many of you does it take to change a light bulb? SkorpivoMusterion 1,103 13 01/06/06 11:25 PM
by dblaney
* Change Gomp 675 12 09/25/04 12:53 PM
by Gomp
* Earth Changes Tripalistic_One 979 9 08/24/02 05:46 PM
by chodamunky

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
597 topic views. 2 members, 5 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.056 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 19 queries.