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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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An interesting paper with pasteurization details. * 1
    #11687699 - 12/20/09 05:42 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.alohaecowas.com/diversified-agriculture-part1.html

It was written for third world mushroom growing, but is applicable everywhere.  Scroll down in the article to look at the charts comparing steam, soap, lime, and bleach pasteurization and the differences in yield from each.
RR


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InvisibleLokelYokel
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11688591 - 12/20/09 07:56 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Looks like shredding your straw is the way to go, no matter what treatment method you use.  I wonder how fine the 50hp Jacobsen hammer mill shreds the straw.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: LokelYokel]
    #11688930 - 12/20/09 08:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know, but at 50hp, it probably shreds a LOT of it.  I can keep up with my farm using a weed whacker to shred straw. :laugh:
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Offlinefungus_tao
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11689214 - 12/20/09 09:56 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, interesting results. Looks like lime and bleach could both prove very effective for elm oysters.

Aloha Paper on Lime:
Quote:

The ELM 1 strain had an efficiency of 168.9% on shredded straw and 53.2% on unshredded straw, a difference of 115.7%.




That's pretty nice...straw logs could be made using only water and lime to prepare the shredded straw, making the energy spent on the substrate a walk to the hardware store, and shredding the straw which can be done with shears by hand. :thumbup:


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InvisibleRonPaulVerm
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11689259 - 12/20/09 10:10 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What I don't get about this experiment is that they are trying to find ways to integrate a commercialized process into "less developed" regions. I understand that. They talk about the use of alternative spawn substrates like sorghum and banana waste, which is a good start. BUT then the process uses oyster shells. I'd imagine only the  coastal regions could afford this. Well, like the paper points out, this one of the FIRST steps.

Interesting that some strains did better with unshredded straw when treated with bleach or tide powder....

Did you guys read the conclusion? That's what I'm talking about!!! :thumbup:  I'm going to study that in my following years....Permaculture (and how mushrooms fit into the picture)


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Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


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Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
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InvisibleLokelYokel
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11690907 - 12/21/09 08:17 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I don't know, but at 50hp, it probably shreds a LOT of it.  I can keep up with my farm using a weed whacker to shred straw. :laugh:
RR




Yes, for several thousands of dollars it had better shred a lot fast.  I wish they would have stated in the paper what level of shredding took place.  It looks like, depending of the screens  used in the mill, straw can be processed from its original state to almost dust.  They use these to process materials for making fuel pellets so they will grind stuff pretty fine.

I will just have to stick to the lawn mower.  I can chop up a bale in less than 10 minutes.


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OfflineJonat
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11690923 - 12/21/09 08:24 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I don't know, but at 50hp, it probably shreds a LOT of it.  I can keep up with my farm using a weed whacker to shred straw. :laugh:
RR




Yes, straw is easy with a weed wacker. But to do corn cobs, you need a hammer mill.


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11691021 - 12/21/09 08:55 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Much thanks for that...extremely informative and helpful. Especially in regards to the yield qualities using Lime (something I was hoping to learn more about).


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #11691051 - 12/21/09 09:05 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder how they dispose of the lime water?  I have a creek running through my property, so don't want the high pH water getting into that to kill the fish, and nearly the entire rest of the property is our fruit tree orchard, lawn, and beehive areas.  I don't have anywhere safe to dump large barrels of lime and/or bleach.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11691073 - 12/21/09 09:11 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The first thing that comes to mind is adding vinegar. But that seems like an awful lot of vinegar to neutralize the amount of lime in there. I wonder what the cost would amount to if someone had to switch from steam/water pasteurizing to using lime + vinegar after the fact to rid of the hazardous effects of the pH.


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OfflineGrzyby
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11691078 - 12/21/09 09:14 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I wonder how they dispose of the lime water?  I have a creek running through my property, so don't want the high pH water getting into that to kill the fish, and nearly the entire rest of the property is our fruit tree orchard, lawn, and beehive areas.  I don't have anywhere safe to dump large barrels of lime and/or bleach.
RR




RR, what if you used vinegar or another natural acid to neutralize the lime water? I bet you could by 55 gallon barrels of vinegar cheap. Then with the bleach water, how about tossing in something to agitate the water or maybe an air diffuser in the water . This would increase the evaporation rate of the chlorine.


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: Grzyby]
    #11691090 - 12/21/09 09:18 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

One could also brew their own vinegar using vinegar cultures and sealed barrels...to make it more cost effective (if making it on your own would be more effective).


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InvisibleRonPaulVerm
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #11691112 - 12/21/09 09:24 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

This paper is interesting because, as I stated above, they want to create a more low scale sustainable way of cultivating mushrooms...but they are using tools that small villages would have to purchase from big time business?
Anyone else see this problem?


Brewing your own vinegar is very mush possible and easy


--------------------
Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


Primitive Skills                                     

Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RonPaulVerm]
    #11691170 - 12/21/09 09:46 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Another alternative to vinegar is using apple (or other fruits) juices which have very low pH values. This would work especially well if you had several apple trees that you don't eat the apples off of, or using apples that fall on the ground and mashing them and tossing them into the brew after each batch.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #11691237 - 12/21/09 10:03 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mephistophelian said:
This would work especially well if you had several apple trees that you don't eat the apples off of, or using apples that fall on the ground and mashing them and tossing them into the brew after each batch.




I'll forgive you for not knowing my wife.  If she sees a deer or bear within half a mile of our orchard, she lets our two rotties out with a command to go for the jugular.  No apple is ever going to stay on one of her trees long enough to fall off.  She picks every one, as well as some of the local native trees to make sure she gets the apples before any human or another animal gets them.

I have a propane burner for pasteurization, and also an endless supply of firewood, so I may make a wood burning sterilizer.  As for the carbon footprint of burning wood, I live only a few miles away from a large forest fire area from ten years ago, therefore have a lifetime supply of firewood that is already releasing its carbon into the air.  The forest fire burned the bark off the trees, killing them, but didn't touch the wood itself, which is now slowly releasing its carbon into the air as it rots away.  I may as well burn it.  It's how we heat our cabin and it's mine for the cost of gas for the chain saw.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11691270 - 12/21/09 10:11 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I'll forgive you for not knowing my wife.  If she sees a deer or bear within half a mile of our orchard, she lets our two rotties out with a command to go for the jugular.  No apple is ever going to stay on one of her tree long enough to fall off.  She picks every one, as well as some of the local native trees to make sure she gets the apples before any human or another animal gets them.





:lol:

Ya...with that much wood your probably better off doing it the 'old fashioned' way. I'm going to take up this Lime idea since my house at its limits for space to work with including anything involving more cooking on my poor stove and using more hot water.

I'm glad you made a point about the high acid in need of correction before dumping it back into our water systems. :thumbup:


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Offlineurbanfarmer
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #11691755 - 12/21/09 11:43 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Why neutralize?  Leave outside in an evap pond to reclaim most of the lime.  Given that we're talking about cultivation in Africa, hopefully they're doing that.


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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: urbanfarmer]
    #11692278 - 12/21/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I like that thought


--------------------
Spawn I Have: Blewitt, Reishi, Maitake, Chicken of the Woods, Parasol, Shaggy Mane, King, Blue and Gold Oyster, Shiitake, King Stropharia, Lions Mane, Almond Portabello, Elm Oyster, Phoenix Oyster, Nameko, Enoki, White Beech,

Spawn I Want: Corcyceps Sp., Cauliflower Mushrooms, Agaricus species (Portobello), Pink Oyster, Piopinno, ...anything else you might have


Primitive Skills                                     

Any information I've posted is only related to fictional purposes. I do not advocate growing any illegal mushrooms 
...I DO advocate learning about
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition


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OfflineJonat
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #11694100 - 12/21/09 06:06 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mephistophelian said:
I'm glad you made a point about the high acid in need of correction before dumping it back into our water systems. :thumbup:




The whole notion that anything should be dumped into waterways is strange to me. Quick lime is a good source of calcium, which many soils would benefit from. Diluted or mixed with organic matter, the pH needn't be a problem.


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OfflineMephistophelian
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Re: An interesting paper with pasteurization details. [Re: Jonat]
    #11697384 - 12/22/09 07:04 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

That's why I made a point of it...if you were doing 4 55 gallon drums of extremely high pH liquid being dumped in/around/near a farmyard or even a plumbed system, that is still a considerable amount of very high acid liquid that would throw off the nearby water system. It was a good point that it should be on the conscious of the user that is using Lime baths rather then steam/woodfire.


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