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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
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Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology...
#11683500 - 12/19/09 09:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why? Is it because religions are well-established and have a considerable amount of people who follow them?
Ragheads are considered sane for following some stupid illogical nonsensical bullshit that they didn't come up with, but some random schizophrenic is considered mentally unhealthy because he came up with his own "religion"?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Groomies
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: Poid]
#11683510 - 12/19/09 09:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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kinda the same as a lucky rabbits foot. people will believe whatever they want to make themselves happy.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: Groomies]
#11683516 - 12/19/09 09:58 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sure, but why does the DSM not consider religious people bat shit insane?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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abysmal
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: Poid]
#11683668 - 12/19/09 10:27 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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did you mean to say: religious people are not considered delusional according to modern psychology many modern psychologists...
or did you ask Modern Psychology?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: abysmal]
#11683689 - 12/19/09 10:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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I searched through the DSM.
But obviously this statement would accurately express my thoughts on this, too:
Quote:
abysmal said: religious people are not considered delusional according to modern psychology many modern psychologists...
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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xFrockx
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: Poid]
#11683852 - 12/19/09 11:11 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Ragheads are considered sane for following some stupid illogical nonsensical bullshit that they didn't come up with,"
racist much?
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Kickle
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: xFrockx]
#11684011 - 12/19/09 11:59 PM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, two things...
1) The DSM is not a universally accepted guide to mental health. 2) If something does not cause significant impairment to functioning, there is no reason to call it a disorder. Schizophrenics are not defined solely by the symptoms they display, but also by the consequences these symptoms have on their ability to function in our society.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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andrewss
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: Kickle]
#11684267 - 12/20/09 01:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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lol you said rag heads
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Noteworthy
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: andrewss]
#11684541 - 12/20/09 05:04 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Someone wont be considered psychotic for believing something strange. However its true... religious people can be considered psychotic. Especially when they go and kill people because 'it was for the character in my head' (god).
But I think the true answer is that so many people agree that god exists. If it was really only a handful of people then they would probably be considered nutty. But as it is, they are just considered 'one of the more nuttier groups of people'
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Chronic7
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: Poid]
#11684675 - 12/20/09 06:23 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe some are simply happy, which is pretty psychologically healthy!
I work in a music rehearsal studio & we get a couple christian bands come in, all i can say is they seem like way way happier people than most of the other bands that come in.
But of course really they are just hiding their psychotic tendencies under those lovely smiles aren't they
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: Poid]
#11684752 - 12/20/09 06:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: Sure, but why does the DSM not consider religious people bat shit insane?
Why should religious people be automatically considered "batshit insane"? I wasn't even aware that the DSM used this terminology.
It's pretty narrow-minded to think that every religious person has mental problems, without a closer inspection of one's cognitive scheme, and the way in which it affects one's feelings and behavior. A person can live a perfectly fulfilling and balanced life, even if they believe in a higher power, as long as this belief doesn't negatively affect their emotions, making them unable to enjoy life and be functional individuals. Religion becomes a problem in the moment in which one gives away from one's personal power to a "higher force", a priest, a guru, or anything of the like. It can also be a problem when one expects their beliefs to do one's tasks instead of them, perform miracles, or bring back the loved one; and the DSM has exactly the right tools of measuring these variables and determining the mental condition of an individual. Labeling an individual as "batshit insane" or schizophrenic just because they're religious would be very similar to labeling someone as chronically depressed just because they have moments in which they feel sad or helpless.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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sacredcow
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: MushroomTrip]
#11684768 - 12/20/09 06:52 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Religion is inherently a mental problem, though often a benign one on the interpersonal level. Societally however, it's absolutely terrible for developing children and can inhibit their scholastic performance, conceptualization of the universe, and ability to understand complex logical systems if it is favored by the child's role models over science. But that's the freedom you have in America!
If it were not bullshit, one would not call it religion, one would call it science. A religion is a failed attempt at science.
Edited by sacredcow (12/20/09 06:59 AM)
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: sacredcow]
#11684784 - 12/20/09 06:57 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Religion is inherently a mental problem
Elaborate please.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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sacredcow
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: MushroomTrip]
#11684798 - 12/20/09 07:04 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited above post before i saw your reply sorry if what i say offends anyone, but it happens. just know that i still respect your right to exist even if i don't respect many of your ideas.
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: sacredcow]
#11684966 - 12/20/09 08:15 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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I completely agree that the chances for an individual to turn out with mental disorders are much larger when one is being raised in a religious environment. However, this doesn't mean in any way that all religious individuals are batshit insane, or that psychology should label them them as schizophrenics or paranoid. Actually, while I agree that DSM or any other tool that aids in measuring and determining the existence of mental disorders can be very helpful, I believe that at the same time they can be very misused by psychologists, which might be more inclined to become trapped by the terminology of a mental disorder, and give up on their patient just because the disorder sounds bad, neglecting to pay attention to all the other signals and clues exhibited by them.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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learningtofly
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: MushroomTrip]
#11685032 - 12/20/09 08:39 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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in order to be delusional one has to hold form beliefs in something that isn't true. Now i'm no genius but I was under the impression that man had neither the tools to prove or disprove God.
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sacredcow
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: learningtofly]
#11685111 - 12/20/09 09:13 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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to learningtofly, yes the fundamental state of man is agnostic but we still must theorize. that's what any system of beliefs is, atheism, christianity, judaism, "science", etc You can't prove or disprove a single thing, you just have to use the information you can gather in order to construct probability-based assumptions about the world around you to form a constantly-changing and imperfect model of the universe inside your head that you will have to use to make decisions. The more accurate it is, the better decisions you will make. Some people will never "get it" but a decent number of people who do generally agree. you can choose not to believe in whatever makes you content, but i will not hesitate to call you an idiot when you apply the same logic to bus about to run you over. Evolution necessitates that you trust your senses to some degree so why do you fail to acknowledge all that is thus apparent through them? Make good use of calculus, remember derivatives? What is the fastest growing religion at present. "No religion" Use psychology. Why might religion have appealed to humans at previous times? Why might it appeal less to them now? Would humans have developed abstract representations of the universe before they came to grasp the reality of how many previously mysterious physical phenomena occur? Are humans today learning more than we previously knew about the world or less? Knowledge just builds on itself and beyond a certain point, when you realize all that is available to us today in terms of information, religion seems like a confusing, divisive, unforgivably outdated and now detrimental institution that we would do better without. think of the pro-life movement. pure evil. I'm not saying this in a negative sense, but it's just my personal moral conviction. That's not to say that I don't have sympathy for religious people, I understand that this shit was forced upon most people at a very young age and can be very hard to break free from I think the only solution is to advocate my own opposing beliefs. I maybe be just as bad as a religious person in terms of attitude, but i'll still assert that a scientific conceptualization of the universe is more useful to humans than a religious one, you can decide for yourself whether or not to believe me.
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learningtofly
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: sacredcow]
#11685122 - 12/20/09 09:16 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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the concept of god lies outside the universe and therefore science has absolutely no right to comment on it because science is not concerned with what lies outside the universe/before the "big bang."
How can you theorize on that which you cannot theorize by definition?
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sacredcow
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: learningtofly]
#11685144 - 12/20/09 09:23 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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the traditional concept of god in all religions does not lie outside the universe, in just about all theist religious texts, this ambiguous force called "god" plays an active role in the universe. kills people, impregnates women, etc. i theorize that no such forces exist. when you take god to mean something aside from these vague forces and define it to mean something that does seem to exist, ie, the universe itself, that is another argument entirely
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sacredcow
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Re: Religious people are not considered delusional, according to modern psychology... [Re: sacredcow]
#11685162 - 12/20/09 09:29 AM (14 years, 3 months ago) |
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Btw religion is too statistically prevalent to be considered a mental disorder. in order for something to be a mental disorder according to the DSM-IV it must be significantly abnormal.
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