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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Jeroen198]
    #1169443 - 12/25/02 11:13 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

ok!


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Jeroen198]
    #1169458 - 12/25/02 11:25 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

But lets say that Equadors are more potent than hmmmm..I dont know, B+. And lets say a strong b+ had exactly 10mg of Psilocybin, and the weak Equador had exactly 10mg of Psilocybin. There would be no difference in what you take, no difference in trip. 10mg is 10mg...... That is unless one person was in a different mood from the other, depressed, excited, scared, relaxed. Interview both on the trip they had, they will be different. But not because of the strain, its the person.
Theres no such thing as Equadorian Psilocybin, Thiland Psilocybin...ITS ALL ONE SAME SUBSTANCE!


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OfflineJeroen198
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1169470 - 12/25/02 11:34 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

yes, i already said i agreed with you, but you obviously missed my first post in this thread


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InvisibleMagash
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Blaxican707]
    #1169482 - 12/25/02 11:42 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Ya know I think they are all good. Gonna be more of a try and rate for you I think just like the rest of us.
My opinion, and that is all it is, is to reasearch which has the fastest and strongest mycelium or strains that are known for it anyway and go from there.


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Jeroen198]
    #1169554 - 12/25/02 12:25 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

fact: the mushrooms we speak of all contain psilocybin and psilocin, no matter what strain, although in different ratios.



true, but do you think that mushrooms are just psilocybin, psilocin, water and "filler"? There's all sorts of other chemicals other than the 2 dominant alkaloids.


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hmmm........


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InvisibleAyrios
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Blaxican707]
    #1169559 - 12/25/02 12:31 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Where's the PF strain fit in with all of this? Does it have another official name?


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OfflineALHOFF177A17
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: RedCommyBasterd]
    #1169621 - 12/25/02 01:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You know. I have been studying neurochemichals for about a year now and by no means do i call myself an expert, but the little place you call conciousness in your brain is maintained through a complex sieries of chemichal reactions under very specific conditions. Drugs are chemicals that offset the balance or homeostasis within neurons. Some chemical substances are know to act across multiple paths within the brain and some chemichals are know to do nothing at all.
In the same complex way wind patterns are generated on earth, is the balance within your body maintained. I dont mean its the same forces, but they are both dynamic systems where one variable effects another.

I think the best way to maybe lighten this dabate between "which strain makes you trip hardest" is to first of all state that everyone is different no exceptions, and every mushroom is different (possibly with the exception of clones), and second to give links to some information to support my argument.

Differing levels of known actives in species:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml

In the chemistry section of this document you will find a short listing of know chemicals contained within P. baeocystis:
www.shroomery.org/ Sections/ general info/ Psilocybe mushroom FAQ/ chemistry


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: ALHOFF177A17]
    #1169678 - 12/25/02 02:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Well, there is no ONE strain that gives you more of a floating feeling, one that gives you more colourfull and intense visuals etc etc......If you do hear this, I find that you hear this alot in some sites that sell the spores. Trying to pitch the product. But in actuality, its like saying..." Try the green corvet, youll get faster stops and nicer turns than the red corvet"......Same thing IN mushroom talk--> "Equadors give you a floaty feeling with visuals consisting of mostly tribal sybols, and the B+ strain will make you creative and make you giggle"...gimmie a break, its all the same.

>>>>>I think the best way to maybe lighten this dabate between "which strain makes you trip hardest" is to first of all state that everyone is different no exceptions, and every mushroom is different (possibly with the exception of clones), and second to give links to some information to support my argument.>>>

Exactly, theres no way a person can say.." Oh this strain will make you feel this way, make you see visuals"....Thats wrong. When YOU took it on that particular day, YOU felt this and that, that doesnt mean Psilocybin will do that to me. Even if its from the same strain. Maybe Ill grow it different so that it contains less of the chemical, and so on....So thanks for clarifying my opinion ALHOFF





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Invisible????p?F???d??
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1169748 - 12/25/02 03:01 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't really notice much of a difference between one Cubensis and another (except size and type), a shroom trip is a shroom trip. However, YMMV (Your Mushroom May Vary).


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InvisibleAlkaloids
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1169931 - 12/25/02 04:28 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

thanks for the post alhoff

Northernsoul: It is true that psilocybin(e) and psilocin(e) are the primary active ingredients in this genus of mushrooms. This we can all agree on.
What seems to be a point of contention is differences in type/style of trip experienced by users based on ingestion of various strains.
fact 1: each strain can and will have varying ratios of the 2 primary active ingredients as well as varying percentages of other secondary active ingredients.
fact 2: each strain will also have varying ratios/types of proteins, simple and complex carbohydrates and other bio molecules.
fact 3: these varying levels of literally thousands upon thousands of molecules will affect each person differently every time they are ingested. Not only will the "active" ingredients change the make-up of the trip, but so will all the other compounds.
fact 4: each person's biochemical make-up is unique
From this it follows that -at the very least- each person will have a unique reaction to eating mushrooms, as they are a complex mosaic of chemicals.
How much this reaction will vary from person to person depends on too many factors to count, but that does not discredit a person's _personal_ observations from having relevance to this discussion.
I agree that predicting a particular type of trip for the population in general is going to far, but that does not mean that billy-bob-mushroom-eater will not have consistent effects from one strain that _are_ different from another strain.
In the end it can be stated that for consumer X strain R gives Urgh type of effects, but that observation/information can not be extrapolated to someone else. Consumer X's reactions might very well be in line with other consumers, especially as their biochemical make-up approaches homogeneity.
I do agree with your points about advertising particular types of trips as gospel. IMO if the sellers wish to say such things they should clearly state that individual responses may vary.
I for one know that certain strains do not sit well with me. Most notably Equadorians. I have had them administered to me without my having any knowledge of the strain and the effects were always the same and always more towards the unpleasant end of things. B+, Mexi-cub for instance , have always been good. Even better when taken together.
So yes I agree with some of what you said and I hope that I helped this discussion a little further.

All mushrooms and people are not created equal.
peace
Alkaloids


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Alkaloids]
    #1170103 - 12/25/02 05:36 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Many protiens and different other nutritional ( Very low in nutrition) in these mushrooms, but still only 2 chemicals as far as I know that are Psycoactive in them, Psilosin, Psilocybin. If there are any other active ingredients like you were saying please fill me in, id like to know. But the last thing you said was that one mushrooms ingredients was different from the next? I disagree, one person is different from the next, and so are the experiences based on the person. Your still pretty much saying a green car goes slower than the exact same car in red...lol..>>>>>>>>>>" Equadorians. I have had them administered to me without my having any knowledge of the strain and the effects were always the same and always more towards the unpleasant end of things. B+, Mexi-cub for instance , have always been good. Even better when taken together. "...............So ..a green civic runs better than a red civic does it? Better yet, a green with blue effects one is even better?...Sorry, thats how I see it when people say that kind of stuff...Or how about a Red pencil balances better than a green pencil??...Anyways..on this thread goes.


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OfflineSkryllz
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1170190 - 12/25/02 06:26 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

There are other active alkaloids in mushrooms, I can't remember the names but this exact same topic was discussed a few days ago and someone posted 2 other alkaloids that do affect the trip.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Skryllz]
    #1170260 - 12/25/02 07:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, anyone know what they are ?


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InvisibleAlkaloids
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1171160 - 12/26/02 10:46 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

  As the chemical composition is different a better analogy would be the green civic runs differently than the red civic since they are using slightly different types of gas.
  Another (directly)  active ingredient would  baeocystin(e).  You neglected to take into account most of the facts I pointed out. 
  Yes all the other non-active compounds do have an effect.  As any strain will have greater chemical similarities to other members of its own strain than a foreign strain, so to will the types/ratios of other compounds which can and _will_ influence digestion, absorbtion and in some cases uptake differ more greatly between strains than within a single strain.
    so please do not confuse what I am saying with the argument you are trying to support.
  I am saying that you will find Granny Smith apples more similar to other Granny Smith apples than to Golden Delicious.  :smile:    The same applies to "magic" mushrooms as is does to any other type of mushroom.   


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OfflineMisterKite
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1171182 - 12/26/02 11:02 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The two other active psychedelic chemicals in cubes are baeocystin and norbaeocystin. Both are closely realted to psilocybin, but they decay faster and are found in smaller quanties, thus having a lesser effect on the high.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Alkaloids]
    #1171207 - 12/26/02 11:30 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:
Yes all the other non-active compounds do have an effect. As any strain will have greater chemical similarities to other members of its own strain than a foreign strain, so to will the types/ratios of other compounds which can and _will_ influence digestion, absorbtion and in some cases uptake differ more greatly between strains than within a single strain

Might I add that Mood, how full your stomach is, expectations of the drug, prior experience of the drug, how much sleep you had, current diet, exercise, medication you take, body wieght, metabolism etc... all effect the trip as well. There are actually so many varibles, that why base the trip only on the kind of strain it is?


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InvisibleAlkaloids
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1173052 - 12/27/02 06:30 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

  The reason that many people prefer certain strains _is_ individual and with many consumers there are somewhat consistent types of trips based on strain. 
  Let me clarify with the EQ example again. 
Every single experience I have personally had with this strain has had a heavy and unpleasent body load.  Grown under differing conditions, differing substrates etc.  For some reason this strain does not agree with my own biochemistry.  Regardless of any foods I had consumed or any of the many variables you listed.
  This is exactly what happens with other individuals.  All these personalized bioassays can not be ignored as they are the heart and soul of psychotropic compounds. 
  Just as I do not like certain cultivars of brocolli, while others I love, I (and many others) do not like certain strains of fungus and get much better effects from others. 
    so eat up everyone.....  just make sure that brocolli doesn't make you sick.  :smile:
   


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Alkaloids]
    #1173150 - 12/27/02 07:27 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Psilocybes are what would be considered a "wild" or gourmet style fungus.Experience with wild Pleurotis has shown that some varieties of Oyster mushroom can give mild stomach upset (the white strain) while the grey blue strain are easily digested.It is the same for Psilocybin I believe different strains have different protein/carbohydrate make ups which can have a definitive effect on the trip and the body load depending on personal sensitivity to said protiens.I have experienced the difference between several varieties(Baeocystis make me ill) and they are real but more connected to the flesh of the shroom IMO than the active constituants,as methanolic extracts seem to be consistant no matter which species is used.So IMHO it is the basidiocarp itself which affects the high more than the chemical constituants.It would be intersting to ingest extacted material to see if any gastrointestinal effect remained in the vegetative remains.

:grin:WR


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InvisibleAlkaloids
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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: whiterasta]
    #1174271 - 12/27/02 05:36 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

very nice post...  i happen to agree.  :smile:    This was my point in my other posts, although I believe you stated it in a more succint manner.
    It isn't uncommon for people to have mild allergies to various proteins/carbohydrate complexes and to this end I am going to be conducting trials with some volunteers who do have generally unpleasent effects from mushrooms after eating the fruiting bodies. 
  I feel confident that these people will have a much more pleasent time of things if they simply ingest the psychoactive constituents from the mushrooms and not the whole basidiocarps. 
  I'll let you know how it goes if you are interested.  :wink: 


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Re: What Psilocybe Cubensis do you guys enjoy? [Re: Alkaloids]
    #1174514 - 12/28/02 01:58 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Northern Soul - Gartz found a range of alkaloids that were closely related to psilocybin/psilocin - which themselves are just converted trytophans anyway. Baeocystis and norbaeocystis are so close to psilocin that they arent really a good example. Serotinin, 5-0H-tryptophan, L-tryptophan, tryptophan, aeruginescen, and even DMT were all reported in psilocybe mushrooms. Infact if you look at the FAQ here as someone else suggested in the chemistry section before posting you will find it easier not to post misinformation.
The fact that chemically these alkaloids are often VERY similar, suggests that being so similar to serotonin, they may be all psychoactive, and certainly id suggest more than the partially converted tryptophans and psilocin/psilocybin are active and their considerable variations in ration between species, spore race and even flush are documented fact. (bigwood and beug 1982 between flushes of cubensis).
Stivje and deMeijer 1993 found a variation of psilocin between Mexican and Amazonian cubensis of around .2% psilocin. That is a considerable variation of alkaloids, when you consider cubensis maxima of psilocin content was reported as .5%.
Set and setting does effect the trip, but to be honest you guys are suggesting that it provides a definitive answer for variations in experiences between cubensis spore races. The evidence is there that the alkaloid contents between races is quite diverse - so until proven otherwise how can you argue that setting has any relevance?? Is there any clinical studies that show us that dark rooms or hot weather make your trip more 'fuzzy' or 'happy'??
Its not opinion, its demonstrated fact that people have found differences in alkaloid content and potency between different races of ps.cubensis. It could be summised that this fluctuation in alkaloid content also related to other little studied alkaliods and could reflect in the experiences of the user.
Anything is possible.


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