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Offlinefungus_tao
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steam pasteurizing filter patch bags
    #11644901 - 12/13/09 07:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I'm always thinking about how to grow bigger. This post in particular got my head spinning, but I couldn't find much else on it. The idea is basically a small home-scale version of phase 2 pasteurization. After thinking it over this is what I'm thinking about doing. Breaking it down step by step:

1.) Fill filter patch bags with substrate, squeeze out excess air, and impulse seal.

2.) Attach heat resistant tubing to steam valve on PC.

3.) Fit a 2 way T to tubing to spread steam injection across the lid of pasteurization box

4.) Drill holes for steam injection into lid, and drill holes in the bottom for excess steam to drip out.

5.) Stack first rubbermaid into a second one of equal size (like a double tub incubator) for catching water from the steam that settles, and to serve as an insulator.

6.) Load first rubbermaid with sealed filter patch bags containing substrate, and a remote thermometer to monitor pasteurization temps.

Will this work? What would be the ideal placement of the thermometer? Suggestions welcome. Thanks.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: fungus_tao]
    #11645187 - 12/13/09 08:10 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I'm building a few ambient pressure steam sterilizers out of 55 gallon drums.  I'll have about six inches of water in the bottom which will boil, with racks welded above the waterline for the filter patch bags of substrate to sit on.  I do all my welding outside, and it's been -20f to -30F all week, so I've been sitting in front of the wood stove drinking coffee(spiked with vodka of course).  It's supposed to warm up enough by Tuesday to start snowing again, so I'll probably get out and finish the project.

I wouldn't use rubbermaid totes.  They'll probably melt or at least warp.  They barely stand up to pasteurization temps.

I also wouldn't seal the bags prior to sterilization.  It's too easy to insert a tyvek sleeve into the bag, fold it over, sterilize, and then seal after inoculation.  I've posted the method here a few times, and a visual demonstration is in the sawdust/woodchip chapter of Let's Grow Mushrooms.
RR


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InvisibleJef
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: fungus_tao]
    #11645379 - 12/13/09 08:36 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Very shocking that RR drinks!  :nono:

Not everyone can be as innocent as me:eek:... (or wants to!))

What's in the filter patch bags ?

Grains need to be sterilized.  This might be accomplished by the treatment you propose if it was done maybe five times with a few days intervening between each treatment, but that's a lot of work and handling.

Also the steam should pasteurize from below, not above, what you're treating. Heat rises.

I've never heard of filter patch bags being used for bulk substrate.

The thermometer needs to be stuck in the part of your substrate most near the middle where the steam has last access.

There are these terriffic thermometers often on sale for 9.99, battery included. (Canucks:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/8/KitchenBath/2/Appliances/SpecialtyAppliances/PRD~0429447P/Accutemp%2BDigital%2BCooking%2BThermometer.jsp

They are really made for perfectly cooking meat but the setting for Beef: Rare will set an alarm off at 140 degrees.  The alarm can be turned on and off and there is another readout on the same LCD screen that tells temperature like a normal thermometer.  The cord between the probe and unit is about 4 feet.

You could just start the steam, and this would alert you when the temp had been reached with a loud alarm. You could turn down your heat source, disable the alarm and monitor the ongoing temperature on the LCD screen. It will also time how long you have pasteurized.

I have found these to be very accurate and also make perfect roasts, duck, turkey, chicken, and lamb. :happyheart:

If you're bagging straw for pasteurization, then it all makes good sense and should work really well, but sawdust usually is also sterilized.

Hope this helps,

Jeff


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Offlinefungus_tao
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: Jef]
    #11645509 - 12/13/09 09:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the replies and for bursting my rubbermaid bubble RR. I should have clarified the filter patch bags will be filled with bulk sub (coir/verm/coffee). I'm looking for a way to pasteurize (not necessarily sterilize) 20+ bags. I watched that video earlier today RR. I've watched them all dozens of times, and I'm a fan. I still find it easier to seal before processing, cut open, inoculate with grain, and re-seal. I do all my grain spawn in jars, bags only for fruiting substrate. I know not to pasteurize supplemented sawdust although success has been demonstrated. I got the idea after thinking about the straw pasteurization video. I realize not everything in those videos is practical and some things are for demonstration purposes, damn I was really hoping rubbermaid totes could hold up to pasteurization temps. Oh well, back to the drawing board...


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Invisiblenoobieshroomie
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: fungus_tao]
    #11646069 - 12/13/09 10:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
AMU

Best Thread Ever
CapZilla said:
not sure what GE and FAE are but i should probably get some.

Citric said:
Your signature is wrong on colonization temps!

GOOD JUDGMENT COMES FROM EXPERIENCE
EXPERIENCE COMES FROM BAD JUDGMENT

ROOM TEMP 70-75 IS BEST FOR COLONIZATION
Thank you mycochef


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Offlinesolumvita
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: noobieshroomie]
    #11646747 - 12/14/09 01:02 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

If you can find a polyprolylene container that will be more than adequate for pasteurization temps.

Polyprop melts at about 160 degC.  But if it is under stress like heavy loads it will buckle at about 125deg C.  I have also used black plastic lug boxes, we use them for harvesting potatoes, not sure of the type of plastic in it.  I have put them in an autoclave before and they withstand it.  the only problem is that after about 10 cycles the plastics starts to become really brittle and fall apart.

I'm with Jef on the positioning of your steam pipe, it should be at the bottom.


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Offlinefungus_tao
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: solumvita]
    #11647660 - 12/14/09 09:16 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks noobie. That's exactly what I was looking for. Really beats the hell out of injecting steam into the lid :lol:


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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: fungus_tao]
    #11647669 - 12/14/09 09:20 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i have been thinking about building one for a while
doing a lot of straw at one time can be a pain
just hydrate your straw or whatever you plan to use

load up pasteurize and let cool all in the same container
it even drains its self no need to mess with it
just take it out once cool and spawn

      -noobie-


--------------------
AMU

Best Thread Ever
CapZilla said:
not sure what GE and FAE are but i should probably get some.

Citric said:
Your signature is wrong on colonization temps!

GOOD JUDGMENT COMES FROM EXPERIENCE
EXPERIENCE COMES FROM BAD JUDGMENT

ROOM TEMP 70-75 IS BEST FOR COLONIZATION
Thank you mycochef


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Offlineurbanfarmer
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: noobieshroomie]
    #11670268 - 12/17/09 05:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

@RR: how are you heating your drums?  I got the kind where there are 2 threaded plugs in the top, 2" and 1" (iirc).  I screwed a valve into one to drain, and a hot water heating element into the other.  Wired up the element, flipped the drum over, and cut off the top (the original bottom).  Going to add a rubber ring to the cleaned up lids to close the drum, but haven't used them as steamers yet, just as hot bath pasteurization chambers.

Also, how do you weld shelving brackets to the inside of the drum?  I keep thinking I'd electrocute myself.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: urbanfarmer]
    #11672176 - 12/17/09 10:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Also, how do you weld shelving brackets to the inside of the drum?  I keep thinking I'd electrocute myself.




Use DC and don't weld while standing in a puddle of water.  I've been knocked on my ass a few times during warm weather when I'd get all sweaty from the heat and then get the tender part of my sweat/salt covered flesh against something.  It's really only a problem with AC because it will make you jump, and if you're up on a scaffold, you can fall off.  DC only stings/burns but doesn't make you jump like AC.  My welder outputs about 80 volts, which isn't enough to kill a healthy person unless it makes you fall.

The barrel steam sterilizers are for supplemented sawdust bags.  I supplement with rice bran, so it can be sterilized at 100C for a few hours. I won't weld the brackets to the barrel.  They'll sit inside so they can be pulled out for loading/unloading.

I sterilize my rye grains indoors in my AA-75X sterilizers.  I use quart jars for grain masters, each of which are then used to inoculate two spawn bags holding 7 quarts of rye berries each.  Each of these bags are then used to inoculate fifteen additional bags.  This turns each quart of rye berries into 210 quarts of rye with only 2 grain to grain transfers, ensuring the mycelium is still at maximum vigor.  This spawn is then used to inoculate the supplemented sawdust at a rate of 1:7 for oysters, P nameko, H ulmarius, etc., and a rate of 1:10 for shiitake.

I have a 200,000 BTU propane burner, and just got a 1000 gallon propane tank installed next to my sterilization shed.  It takes less than five minutes to bring six inches of water in a 55 gallon drum to a rapid boil.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlineurbanfarmer
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11672373 - 12/17/09 11:03 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Good work!  I went with electric heating elements so that I could use them indoors and leave them unattended.  I installed them under the staircase, roughly at the center of the ground floor of my house, so the drums can be the main heaters for the house as well.

What I need now is some cheap solution for woodchipping a few dozen cords of yaupon.  And some bourbon for this coffee.


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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11673896 - 12/18/09 09:03 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

RR dyeing to see all your pictures and everything you have going! When are you gonna do a thread on your container and post a million picturs?!!? Is it loaded yet????


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: Grzyby]
    #11679532 - 12/19/09 08:30 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Grzyby said:
RR dyeing to see all your pictures and everything you have going! When are you gonna do a thread on your container and post a million picturs?!!? Is it loaded yet????




Mountain Mushroom Farm.

I got started on it last night.  I'll get some more done today. I still have a lot of pictures to get uploaded to the site. 

My first cultures are just now going from petri dish to grain masters, so the farm is sitting empty for the time being.  I started some spawn two months ago, but had to abandon it as I was way too busy with construction to grow mushrooms at the same time.  I suspect the mushroom cave will be fully operational by late spring or summer.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineGrzyby
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11679670 - 12/19/09 09:19 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Cool! Cant wait to see as things progress!


Edited by Grzyby (12/19/09 09:20 AM)


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Offlinefungus_tao
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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: Grzyby]
    #11679722 - 12/19/09 09:35 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

That is an amazing greenhouse. I know how juggling consruction and cultivation go as well. Can't wait to see pics of your drum sterilizer. Your mushroom farm is  :awesomenod:


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Re: steam pasteurizing filter patch bags [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11679762 - 12/19/09 09:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Grzyby said:
RR dyeing to see all your pictures and everything you have going! When are you gonna do a thread on your container and post a million picturs?!!? Is it loaded yet????




Mountain Mushroom Farm.

I got started on it last night.  I'll get some more done today. I still have a lot of pictures to get uploaded to the site. 

My first cultures are just now going from petri dish to grain masters, so the farm is sitting empty for the time being.  I started some spawn two months ago, but had to abandon it as I was way too busy with construction to grow mushrooms at the same time.  I suspect the mushroom cave will be fully operational by late spring or summer.
RR




Man, that is just awesome! :super:

I cant wait to see your progress this Summer!

:goodluck:


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