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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
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Re: Solve this lifeboat scenario!!! [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #11666755 - 12/17/09 08:26 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

What is so retarded about these, what exactly about them? Are all thought experiments retarded?- and if not what makes these ones so?

Einsein imagined scenarios where he could travel at the same speed of light- an impossible scenario that contained some type of insight. Is this different, and why?




Just because really those two questions only have one possible answer that is not ridiculous and has any evidence in support and anyone with a modicum of intelligence who isn't caught up in their own bullshit ought to be able to see this IMO. I'd imagine einstein actually did difficult thought experiments. I don't know what they were specifically but alot of thought experiments I've come across in physics aren't just dumb shit.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


Edited by Grapefruit (12/17/09 08:40 AM)


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InvisibleRationalEgo
Principium Individuationis


Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,071
Loc: Boston
Re: Solve this lifeboat scenario!!! [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #11666765 - 12/17/09 08:32 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

RationalEgo said:
Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Oh man I hate philosophical crap like this. Like that one about whether the ship is the same ship if you replace one plank. No, It's a slightly different fucking ship but who gives a fuck. The one about the tree making sounds in a wood aswell. Why the fuck would it not make a sound if no one was there to hear it, those problems are straight out retarded.




Agreed! :thumbup:



What is so retarded about these, what exactly about them? Are all thought experiments retarded?- and if not what makes these ones so?

Einsein imagined scenarios where he could travel at the same speed of light- an impossible scenario that contained some type of insight. Is this different, and why?




I'm not going to do all your thinking for you, but I will give you a clue.

This lifeboat scenario is about 'ethics'. Giving unrealistic scenarios divorced from reality and the context of 'life' as an example of an ethical choice is retarded.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Registered: 02/20/09
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Re: Solve this lifeboat scenario!!! [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11667168 - 12/17/09 11:11 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with the lifeboat scenario being useless- there isn't much to be gained from answering that problem, except maaaybe an understanding into your own personal sense of ethics.

I'm just saying not all of these types of questions are completely retarded though.


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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,722
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Solve this lifeboat scenario!!! [Re: Grapefruit]
    #11668146 - 12/17/09 02:42 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Quote:

What is so retarded about these, what exactly about them? Are all thought experiments retarded?- and if not what makes these ones so?

Einsein imagined scenarios where he could travel at the same speed of light- an impossible scenario that contained some type of insight. Is this different, and why?




Just because really those two questions only have one possible answer that is not ridiculous and has any evidence in support and anyone with a modicum of intelligence who isn't caught up in their own bullshit ought to be able to see this IMO. I'd imagine einstein actually did difficult thought experiments. I don't know what they were specifically but alot of thought experiments I've come across in physics aren't just dumb shit.




I think you missed the point and/or are being too hard on the whole thing, who said they are awesome thought experiments with grandiose empirical utility. Just take em as they are or just spout of some opinion without getting into it like you are side stepping because you are so goddamn brilliant or beyond and too mature... but I would say they are mostly passed on just to catalyze thought and its the reasoning methodology that can be revealed through them not to mention that in the boat one the substance isn't in the supposedly binary answer, if you missed that you missed its point, I am glad things like these apparently frustrate people - that is what kept them alive in history plus the way they divide peoples opinion for discussion. Blah blah blah  just saying, just playing the devils advocate... :sun:


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Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: Solve this lifeboat scenario!!! [Re: andrewss]
    #11668193 - 12/17/09 02:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"they are mostly passed on just to catalyze thought"

Well put.


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Offlinelearningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
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Re: Solve this lifeboat scenario!!! [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11668471 - 12/17/09 03:26 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The only application of theseus' boat would be this...

since in the human body, cells are constantly dying and being born, are you still the same person in 10 minutes? if not, at what point are you different? but then, who cares?


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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,722
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Re: Solve this lifeboat scenario!!! [Re: learningtofly]
    #11668487 - 12/17/09 03:27 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
The only application of theseus' boat would be this...

since in the human body, cells are constantly dying and being born, are you still the same person in 10 minutes? if not, at what point are you different? but then, who cares?




Yes that is a common adaptation. And yes, who cares? Yes yes yes but "who cares" about MUCH in life! :wink:


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Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
Re: Solve this lifeboat scenario!!! [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11670713 - 12/17/09 08:34 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

There are too many causes that separate the brain from this decision and its eventual effects and other unintended consequences that the brain cannot be held responsible for. This scenario implies free will and causality and there is no mention of the brains actions actually leading to any of the other characters actions. For example, the murder of the five men by Leftie or Jones. Jones is going to kill those five me because he wants to kill and Leftie because he is in a hurry to the hospital. Neither of those two actions is a direct result of the brain's actions. Correlation does not equal causation in this case. The Brain's choice only causes the trolly to go left or right and to subsequently kill Leftie or Jones. Either way the brain can only be held responsible that far in this causal chain. Following this logic there is no difference between choosing the left side or the right side since the brain can only be held responsible for one death and must as a necessity be held responsible for only one death given the conditions of this scenario.


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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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