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 wordreality
Stranger
Registered: 12/22/02
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Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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 good and evil 
#1164507 - 12/23/02 08:00 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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good and evil. not necesarily in the external, social world of religious, political, and educational institutions, but also within your own being. i am attempting to answer what i feel them to be, why i feel they have so much power, and what i feel to be my philosophy in accordance with the two.
what are good and evil?
when i look at the two words, i am first drawn to say that they are concepts. images in the mind produced by a nerve stimulis that contain within themselves what is known as meaning. knowing this, that they are simply nothing more than ghosts of meaning, nothing that is actually with concrete physical substance, i proceed to define them. i define them in the deepest, furthest-thought-out sense that i possibly can. good being any stimulis that creates attraction, and evil being any stimulis that provokes repulsion. attraction and replusion. simple enough. i am attracted towards something that i feel to be good, and i am repelled from anything that i feel to be evil. note that i am defining the two as being analogous and no different from good and bad, or desireable and undesireable. in further pursuit of a full definition, i look to find a reason as to what causes one to desire something, to be attracted towards, and what causes him to not desire something, to be repelled from. an obvious reason would be the type, or will of the emotional energy within one's being. fair enough. emotion causes me to be attracted to something, in turn causing me to admit it's apparent quality of "goodness." and likewise, vice versa, and same-as-before with "badness" or "evil." the final step i will take this definition to, an area that i can see no further beyond in my current MISunderstanding of the universe, is that of the biological survival function of the human being. what i'm saying is that the will to survive, programmed into the organism by dna, is what lies at the bottom of the cause and effect line for why we as individuals refer to certain things as "good" and other things as "bad." so there. the will to survive affects the type of emotional energy we have towards the various stimuli in our reality, in turn affecting our attraction and repulsion mechanisms, finally leading to our subjective realizations of what we feel to be good and evil.
why do good and evil have so much power, especially in today's word?
since the dawn of civilization, man has been lead down the various roads of the earth following his desires and running away from that which he felt necesary to run away from. almost immediately, as civilization began, it was recognized among men that anything posing a threat to their survival had to be done away with, or dealt with in some fashion or another. these things came to be known as evil. the pursuit to rid their lives of these particular things became known as good. man was and is a herd animal, living together in packs and familial groups. this form of living apperently created a collective idea of what indeed was good and what was evil. these concepts of good and evil were spread out among all peoples of all nationalities. when a large group of men are united by a common goal and bond, especially one dealing with their survival, it seems as though a great deal of power is involved. an unstopable amount, when compared to one who might possibly be of different views about the whole matter.
today the two concepts exist as much as ever, but have been blown out of perportion to an almost unbelievable extent. tvs, magazines, books, radio shows, billboards, and various other forms in which the mass media pollutes the human skull are pumping their ideas of what good and evil are into nearly every modern citizen, in turn creating a strong belief within the individuals viewing and reading them of the same outrageous paradigm. drugs, sex, vulgar language, whoever is currently the "bad-guy" of your particular country, these things have been given the label of evil to the extent that the mass of men are willing to fight, with violence, something that i ironically feel should be given the title of evil, if anything, and even willing to put their own lives on the line, in some cases. though it is obvious among educated men and women that these concepts are subjective, many people fail to recognize this and worship the mass media's popular convictions as though they were their gods. this amount of power certainly is dangerous. this common belief about what is good and what is evil. enough power for you to be walking on a random street smoking a blunt, and suddenly being attacked by a citizen who believes that marijuana is "bad." though this may seem far fetched, i can easily see this occuring in my mind. regardless of all this though, it dosn't have to be upsetting. i can perfectly well enjoy a nice marijuana cigar in my own room whenever i want without worrying about being caught or attacked. i was merely pointing out an example of the power that these concepts have today in a modern, civilized, country.
what is my philosophy in accordance with the concepts of good and evil?
if i want something enough, i am willing to do anything to achieve my desire. i do not particularly care what means i use to get it. when something goes against my particular wishes, i have no problem referring to it as evil. when something flows in the current with my desire, it is easy for me to call it good. this is not to say that i am a killer or rapist or hate criminal, or some such other thing, i am just saying that if i truely did want to kill, commit rape, or commit a hate crime, i would not call it evil myself, but refer to the things that standed in my way as evil. i am the protagonist, and the limits and bounderies in my way are the antagonist. bottom line, the terms are subjective to me. i choose what is and what is not good and evil.
any comments, thoughts, objections?
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ribbit
up till dawn
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 290
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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good and evil are just labeling tools for society to regulate with
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 1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
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i dont believe in good or evil. they are just labels that are used to manipulate people and confine their thinking process. good and evil assumes that the universe revolves around humans, which it doesnt.
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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.
There is such emotion in the distortion.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
 
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: good and evil [Re: 1stimer]
#1165632 - 12/23/02 05:36 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think that good and evil exist, but they are just 2 faces of the same coin. Neither of them has absolute rule, only both of them joined together as One truely exists, and that is called love. 
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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johnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
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Quote:
good and evil. not necesarily in the external, social world of religious, political, and educational institutions, but also within your own being
Yes by bro its all about consciousness, how does one know what good and evil is if he isn't conscious? It all goes back the to bible, gensus, supposibly the christian god said "Don't eat from the tree of knowleadge". The tree of knowledge was a psychedelic, many believe that it was a mushroom (but hell, it could be marijuana, mushrooms, or whatever), today we know that it was a psychedelic. Does the christian god want us to be conscious? Its hard to say, i believe that the bible is manipulated so that it could fit the end of times theme. Supposibly man only knows what good and evil is because he ate of the forbiden fruit.
Quote:
what are good and evil?
I believe that there IS a standard of good and evil; noone could tell you what is good and evil, for it is built in you like a computer chip, something all humans inherititly understand, but only when they are conscious!
Quote:
good being any stimulis that creates attraction, and evil being any stimulis that provokes repulsion
Its funny, our society makes drugs evil, but we are attracted to it with every pulse in your bodys. Like 2 Pac said "See they asked me if i shed a tear i didn't lie, see ya gota get high or die!" Religon makes sex evil(or taboo); but sex creates life. One of the reasons there soo much confusion is that the people of the world are TOLD what good and evil is, which really isn't good! 
Quote:
today the two concepts exist as much as ever, but have been blown out of perportion to an almost unbelievable extent. tvs, magazines, books, radio shows, billboards, and various other forms in which the mass media pollutes the human skull are pumping their ideas of what good and evil are into nearly every modern citizen, in turn creating a strong belief within the individuals viewing and reading them of the same outrageous paradigm. drugs, sex, vulgar language, whoever is currently the "bad-guy" of your particular country, these things have been given the label of evil to the extent that the mass of men are willing to fight, with violence, something that i ironically feel should be given the title of evil, if anything, and even willing to put their own lives on the line, in some cases
Amazing isn't it, when 100's of years go by and man doesn't do drugs or ( eat of the forbbiden fruits (psychedelics) ) In order for one to truly know what good and evil is one must be conscious. Funny G. W. Bush declare's a set of countrys around the world "the axis of evil", does anyone find this strange that a president talks this way?
Quote:
enough power for you to be walking on a random street smoking a blunt, and suddenly being attacked by a citizen who believes that marijuana is "bad." though this may seem far fetched, i can easily see this occuring in my mind
Its not far fetched my friend, when masses of people aren't conscious you can tell them whats evil and good and they'll believe it espiecally when its brainwashed in to them. I wouldn't dought such an incident, happening in the coming years. In the 1930's people thought it was the plant with its roots in hell. Out to seduce young childern to become whores, murders and rapists!
GREAT POST MAN!
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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!
Edited by johnnyfive (12/23/02 05:43 PM)
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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 Re: good and evil [Re: Adamist]
#1165658 - 12/23/02 05:42 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am with Adamist. Good and evil are just a matter of perspective. In this polarized reality we cannot fully see that they are different parts of the same thing and that they work together in harmony.
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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There is only grey.
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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johnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
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Re: good and evil [Re: Shroomism]
#1165817 - 12/23/02 06:46 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree shroomism, but i think consciousness plays a huge role in the perspective of good and evil!
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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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When I tripped on acid for the first time, I came upon the revelation that good and evil are entirely subjective, and that which we consider evil is that which we don't understand.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: good and evil [Re: Murex]
#1171567 - 12/26/02 01:29 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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"There is only grey."
Right on, Murex
People are so yin/yang around here... negative and positive, black and white, male and female, day and night, left and right.. they forget there is neutral, grey, asexual, sunrise and sunset, up and down and north-north-west and so on and so on....
Good and Evil are labels - something is good to somebody if it helps their ego or their survival in some way, and something is evil if it threatens their ego or survival in some way:
Tell me something that is "good" absolutely, and tell me something that is "evil" absolutely.
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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3eyedgod
trippinkid
Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
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People are so yin/yang around here... negative and positive, black and white, male and female, day and night, left and right.. they forget there is neutral, grey, asexual, sunrise and sunset, up and down and north-north-west and so on and so on....
Yin and Yang, Positive and Negative, black and white, male and female, day and night, etc.... all work together in harmony. Together, in harmony they are grey. They are the tao.
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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: good and evil [Re: 3eyedgod]
#1172737 - 12/26/02 08:40 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: good and evil [Re: Murex]
#1172899 - 12/27/02 02:25 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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In reply to:
There is only grey.
"That there is twilight does not destroy the distinction between night and day. Conditions might be ambiguous at 6:30 in the evening, but at 12 noon it unambiguously is day and at 12 midnight unambiguously night."
- Daniel B. Klein
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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djamor
Stranger
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 95
Loc: rocky mountains
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
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"Tell me something that is "good" absolutely, and tell me something that is "evil" absolutely." - ok, I can do that. "Do to others what you would have them do to you". Any action that adheres to this 'golden rule' is absolutely good. Any action that intends the opposite is absolutely evil. I say 'action' because thoughts are not evil or good, they are thoughts. It's when you act on these thoughts that they become good or evil.
People are so yin/yang around here... negative and positive, black and white, male and female, day and night, left and right.. they forget there is neutral, grey, asexual, sunrise and sunset, up and down and north-north-west and so on and so on....
I'm not sure what you meant by that. Yin/yang is not the same as black and white. The shape of the symbol implies that there is a balance, or a 'grey' as you state. Remember that white is all colors, it holds the full spectrum. While dark or black is the absence of light/color. An 'asexual' is a person with no interest in sex. This is a condition that is extremely rare in the natural world, most living animals have an interest (or instinct) in sex/reproduction. Grey is a combination of black and white, not a separate state in-between.
Of course good and evil exist! And no, they are not the same thing! If I kill your family it's not the flip side of some coin! It's evil. What the hell else would you call it?
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: djamor]
#1174470 - 12/27/02 10:36 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Re: good and evil [Re: Aura]
#1174512 - 12/27/02 11:52 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Please explain how the analogy is weak. I am curious.
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: ]
#1174515 - 12/27/02 11:59 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Re: good and evil [Re: Aura]
#1174518 - 12/28/02 12:05 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I see. How familiar are you with formal logic?
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: ]
#1174522 - 12/28/02 12:09 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Re: good and evil [Re: Aura]
#1174525 - 12/28/02 12:12 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Assumption is the bane of argumentation. I try not to assume anything.
Cheers and Welcome to SPS!
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: ]
#1174527 - 12/28/02 12:13 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Aura]
#1174536 - 12/28/02 12:46 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Re: good and evil [Re: Aura]
#1174561 - 12/28/02 01:27 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I have not yet been able to get my thoughts on paper with fluidity, I write and think splintered. It's something that I need to work on because I feel like I don't actually convey what I want to say. It's very frustrating. Bear with me I have lots to say, and a poor sense of organization.
Take your time and post to the best of your ability. Very few of us are professionals here. Read the Be Nice policy to gain a better understanding of me and this forum.
If I need clarification on something you have written I will ask you directly about it.
Cheers
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: good and evil [Re: Evolving]
#1174923 - 12/28/02 06:54 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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"That there is twilight does not destroy the distinction between night and day. Conditions might be ambiguous at 6:30 in the evening, but at 12 noon it unambiguously is day and at 12 midnight unambiguously night."
What does this have to do with anything? 
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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Anonymous
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Re: good and evil [Re: Murex]
#1174955 - 12/28/02 07:10 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is a logical correlation between daylight/right and midnight/wrong and twilight/grey.
Some things are wrong and can never be right. Some things are right and can never be wrong. And some things depend upon the circumstances and can be right or wrong.
Cheers
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djamor
Stranger
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 95
Loc: rocky mountains
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
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Re: good and evil [Re: Aura]
#1175088 - 12/28/02 09:17 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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'Who is to determine them... Evil could be good. Perhaps evil doesn't hold back, there is no restraint and maybe good is just evil trapped inside. Which is worse?' -
What are you trying to say? We are inheritantly evil? The people who say they are good are really just holding their innate evil nature inside? Whatever.
Yes, I believe that good and evil are subjective terms as well. But that doesn't mean that they don't exist. Love is a subjective term, too, but few would say it doesn't exist.
'Good can easily be portrayed through a facade same with evil. I think that the problem lies in using a single word to define an essence of a person, and such misconstrued words at that. A yin/yang is still a feeble attempt at defining balance, it's over-generalized just as evil and good are. '
Hey, don't blame the tao for it's misunderstood nature. That whole night/day, black/white thing does not include good/evil. The tao is not a feeble attempt at defining balance. Yes, it's become over-generalized, trendy, and many have taken creative liberty with the symbol, but that's because either a) they don't understand it, b) they want to make a buck on a globally recognised symbol, or c) they understand that balance is subjective.
More to come, but I gotta eat - thats an objective reality there!
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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 Re: good and evil [Re: djamor]
#1175124 - 12/28/02 09:46 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I remember on my first acid trip I contemplated the meaning of good and evil, and I realized that what we consider evil is that which we don't understand. Let's take the example of someone killing their family. What if they believed they were sacrificing their family to their god(s)? If it pleases their god(s) it would obviously be good in their eyes, and others who might share their beliefs might also believe it is good. And what if all of humanity somehow benefitted from their deaths? Wouldn't that make it good? Sure, it would violate the Golden Rule, but as wise as the Golden Rule sounds, we simply can't accept it as the absolute truth because truth is unknown to us.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: good and evil [Re: ]
#1175297 - 12/28/02 11:43 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is a logical correlation between daylight/right and midnight/wrong and twilight/grey.
No there isn't (imo). 
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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?
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djamor
Stranger
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 95
Loc: rocky mountains
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
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well, I think this discussion has fallen prey to semantics. We all define good and evil for ourselves. The common theme I see in this thread is that there is no universal or objective 'good' or 'evil'. I'm not arguing against that. It just sounds like you're giving yourself permission to be evil.
To me, the golden rule makes perfect sense, and I'm not christian or even religious. When you look to the end result of your philosophy to determine the validity of it, it holds true. When people live by the golden rule, equality and compassion are possible. It's pretty hard to do these days, and we are not perfect in this regard, but that's what forgiveness is all about.
It boils down to intent.
The guy who kills his family for 'a higher good' did so with good intentions. If he didn't (which is a much more likely scenario), he did it out of cruelty or greed. How would you defend someone who abducts, rapes and dismembers a child? Where's the higher good there? How is humanity going to benefit from that? I'm sorry about the graphic nature of my analogies, but evil is ugly.
-what goes around - comes back stronger!
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: good and evil [Re: djamor]
#1175387 - 12/28/02 01:03 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you'll agree that morality is subjective, then I can accept that. I personally have never stolen, never resorted to violence, and I rarely am dishonest, all because I have morals which I follow. I am by no means giving myself permission to do acts which I consider evil, but because I believe there is no objective morality, I also don't believe I have the right to judge others.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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johnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
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Re: good and evil [Re: Aura]
#1176655 - 12/29/02 05:39 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here i can describe it like this!
I believe that in humanitys darkest times, even the leader of evil (anti-christ/leader of world goverment) is good.
If the end of times isn't a test, then the anti-consuisess (anti-christ), will force his mark on you, and it wouldn't be an option!
Get it? Means the anti-christ will give you option to sell yourself to the system. He's doing god's great work, takening the one's who don't believe in consiucessness off the the world, the anti-christs! Means if he was 100% pure evil then the implant wouldn't be an option.
Just something to think about in the end of times.
My whole premise supports the ying-yag. There's no such thing as 100% pure evil or good, for the existence of both must be realized in any situatation. There's 90% good with 10% evil, or 90% evil with 10% good, get it? Anyone?
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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!
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djamor
Stranger
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 95
Loc: rocky mountains
Last seen: 20 years, 9 months
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silversoul, yes, morality is subjective. And I truly respect you for having never resorted to violence. But it sounds like your subjective morality is based on the golden rule as well, true? Maybe you've never thought about it, but you are honest because you want others to be honest with you, correct? It's obviously not because you think honesty is objectively 'good'. You don't smack someone in the nose because you dont want someone to smack you in the nose, right?
In my opinion, the golden rule is part of human nature. Its how we act when we are not fearful or threatened and feel connected to a community.
As far as judging goes, well, we all judge people. If someone looks like a cop are you going to offer to smoke a joint with the guy? That's a superficial judgement as opposed to a moral one, but I occasionally judge people morally. Hypocrites bug the shit out of me, but I occasionally find myself saying something that could be seen as being hypocritical. I'm not perfect, so I tend to forgive rather easily, unless, of course, they are not sorry.
btw, I wasnt really saying you that you were giving yourself permission to be evil - just that that philosophy (good&evil being two sides of the same coin) could be twisted to do just that.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: good and evil [Re: djamor]
#1177363 - 12/29/02 11:48 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I never said that I don't follow the Golden Rule. I just said we can't accept it as being the absolute truth. There is a difference between objective and inter-subjective. I was merely saying that the Golden Rule cannot simply be accepted as the absolute measure of objective morality. It is, however, something most of us can agree upon, and is, I believe, a necessary thing to have in order for civilization to flourish. When something is agreed upon by a group of people, it is called inter-subjective. That doesn't mean it is objectively true, but rather that it can be agreed upon by a group of people.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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