Home | Community | Message Board

Kratom Eye
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineHashishin13
Male User Gallery
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 315
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Mushroom genetics?
    #11631604 - 12/11/09 05:21 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Can anyone tell me how mushrooms produce genetic variation in their spores? Is it different for different mushrooms? I'm pretty much only interested in actives. Links with pictures would be nice, thanks.


--------------------
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
-George Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNewfound_wonder
Social Outcast
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 447
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Hashishin13]
    #11631821 - 12/11/09 06:07 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Probably through genetic recombination of some sort.  I'm guessing the different strains of mushrooms we see today arose by natural selection, where growers cloned a select mushroom from the bunch that was particularly fat, skinny, tall, or penis-looking and made a new batch from the DNA of that particular mushroom and selected traits from the new batch.  We can't control which chromosomes will end up in which mushroom, but we can pick the ones that produce the biggest fruits or the highest psilocybin content.  Maybe it's possible to use agar plates to make a strain that produces antibiotics to kill other bacteria and outgrow many molds.


--------------------
If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3,787
Loc: Puget Sound
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Hashishin13]
    #11633126 - 12/11/09 09:44 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hashishin13 said:
Can anyone tell me how mushrooms produce genetic variation in their spores? Is it different for different mushrooms? I'm pretty much only interested in actives. Links with pictures would be nice, thanks.




Mushroom spores don't have 2 sexes (male/female) they have hundreds and sometimes thousands of sexes. This helps to produce genetic variation.

Sexual reproduction in any form produces genetic variation.


Quote:

Newfound_wonder said:
Maybe it's possible to use agar plates to make a strain that produces antibiotics to kill other bacteria and outgrow many molds.




That would only be possible if the species already has the ability to do so.


--------------------
Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHashishin13
Male User Gallery
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 315
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #11638242 - 12/12/09 06:03 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What do you mean they have hundreds of different sexes? Are you saying they recombine their DNA in hundreds of different preset patterns?
You could potentially make mushrooms that produced anti-biotics, even if they don't have the original potential to do so. Its called mutation, of course its pretty rare, and you would have to be lucky enough to find a mutation that affected some part of the mushroom which is already there, but it MAY be possible.


--------------------
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
-George Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Hashishin13]
    #11638731 - 12/12/09 07:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

So, fungi, depending on which ones we're talkinga bout can reproduce sexually or asexually. Some can do both.

Their male females gametes are just known as PLUS or MINUS.  When they come together they get meiotic followed by mitotic from then on.


Quote:

Mushroom spores don't have 2 sexes (male/female) they have hundreds and sometimes thousands of sexes. This helps to produce genetic variation.




I think you're mixing up their hundreds/1000s sexes with the genetic variatibility that makes it possible to combine with the other plus of minus gamete.  Otherwise, if you have a source to prove your claim, then I'd love to see it.  Always up for learning a bit more about one of my favorite organisms. :smile:


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3,787
Loc: Puget Sound
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Hashishin13]
    #11638754 - 12/12/09 07:31 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hashishin13 said:
You could potentially make mushrooms that produced anti-biotics, even if they don't have the original potential to do so. Its called mutation, of course its pretty rare, and you would have to be lucky enough to find a mutation that affected some part of the mushroom which is already there, but it MAY be possible.




In theory you could genetically engineer a fungus to produce antibiotics it doesn't naturally make. However, most mutations are detrimental to the organism and will most likely kill it. Random mutations often do nothing good for an organism. The chance that a random mutation would make a mushroom produce a new antibiotic is astronomical.


Quote:

Hashishin13 said:
What do you mean they have hundreds of different sexes?




Humans have 2 sexes. Male and female. Together they can produce fertile offspring.

Mushrooms have MANY sexes. Meaning one spore may only be compatible with a certain type of other spore. Instead of a male and female, there's MANY sexes and only some can create offspring with certain others.

Imagine we have spores A- and A+, they can produce a fruiting culture. B+ and B- can produce a fruiting culture too. B+ and A- cannot mate but B- and A+ can mate.

Now imagine you have 10,000 types. See what I mean?


Quote:

Cracka_X said:
I think you're mixing up their hundreds/1000s sexes with the genetic variatibility that makes it possible to combine with the other plus of minus gamete.  Otherwise, if you have a source to prove your claim, then I'd love to see it.  Always up for learning a bit more about one of my favorite organisms. :smile:




Read this; Mushrooms have 36,000 sexes

I think that link will also help to answer Hashishin13's question. That article is old news though, 1999.


--------------------
Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.


Edited by BlimeyGrimey (12/12/09 09:32 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #11638787 - 12/12/09 07:38 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

PS. cubensis has four mating types - 'sexes', although they are all equal participants genetically.
Not hundreds of sexes.

Mushrooms pass on their genes like any other organism.
There are random mutations, and the good ones produce viable offspring that reproduce. Just like with puppies.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3,787
Loc: Puget Sound
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Doc_T]
    #11638827 - 12/12/09 07:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
PS. cubensis has four mating types - 'sexes', although they are all equal participants genetically.
Not hundreds of sexes.




When did I saw Psilocybe cubensis had hundreds of sexes? I'm talking about mushrooms in general not cubes. Some mushrooms do in fact have hundreds of sexes while other simply have 4 or 6 or 22.


Quote:

Doc_T said:
There are random mutations, and the good ones produce viable offspring that reproduce. Just like with puppies.




That's a very limited statement. While mutations that impart a benefit to the organism are more likely to be passed on, that doesn't mean that most or even a small chunk of mutations are beneficial.

Most random mutations do not help the organism but instead hinder it.


--------------------
Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHashishin13
Male User Gallery
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 315
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #11638898 - 12/12/09 08:03 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

BlimeyGrimey are you one of those people that doesn't believe that random mutation can lead to new species? You keep ragging on mutation...
Thanks for that article, it seemed kinda vague somehow so I didn't finish it but your post and the one before it answered my question.


--------------------
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
-George Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #11639074 - 12/12/09 08:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

nice, thanks :laugh:


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3,787
Loc: Puget Sound
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Hashishin13]
    #11639131 - 12/12/09 08:55 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hashishin13 said:
BlimeyGrimey are you one of those people that doesn't believe that random mutation can lead to new species? You keep ragging on mutation...
Thanks for that article, it seemed kinda vague somehow so I didn't finish it but your post and the one before it answered my question.




Over time mutations can accumulate, which may lead to new species.

However, I will still say that most random mutations are not beneficial. Cells have built in systems to repair changes in its genetic code to avoid mutation. To make a mushroom produce a new antibiotic by chance mutation could take decades or never actually happen. Mushrooms already produce their own antibiotics, they do fine outdoors in a world covered in microbes.

It's easier to learn sterile technique than to make mushrooms resist contaminates. Search for the old threads about using UV light to mutate Psilocybe cubensis, to create albinos etc. fastfred and a few others have good posts pointing out why most random mutations would be harmful.

The multiple sexes of spores also helps to ensure out-breeding by making them incompatible with some of the spores from their own patch or mycelial network.

Here's a good article about it; Tom's Fungi

Much better than the first one I posted. Its not about actives but it does go into details about how mushrooms reproduce and create genetic variability.


--------------------
Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #11639139 - 12/12/09 08:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Agreed^^^.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefastfred
Old Hand
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Doc_T]
    #11639168 - 12/12/09 09:03 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Wow... I hate to see such a murdering of basic genetics.

:popcorn:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3,787
Loc: Puget Sound
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: fastfred]
    #11639271 - 12/12/09 09:27 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Que?

Maybe some input then?

I believe I was correct in saying sexual reproduction creates genetic variation and in saying most mutations aren't beneficial.

P.S.

I haven't taken my Population Genetics class yet, so bite me!


--------------------
Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.


Edited by BlimeyGrimey (12/12/09 09:33 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDoc_T
Random Dude
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado Flag
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #11639404 - 12/12/09 09:51 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BlimeyGrimey said:
I believe I was correct in saying sexual reproduction creates genetic variation and in saying most mutations aren't beneficial.




Sexual reproduction propagates those mutations, they are created through a variety of methods.
And most mutations aren't beneficial or harmful either, they just are there.


--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHashishin13
Male User Gallery
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 315
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #11639462 - 12/12/09 10:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I know all about basic genetics, so don't worry too much fred. I just didn't know anything about how mushrooms reproduced with their spores. Good to hear that Blimey, yea I know all about how 99.9% of mutations are detrimental and how many both help and hinder the organism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle-cell_disease)
I was just saying that theoretically it may be possible, although I agree probably not practical. Although what ou say here:
Quote:

Mushrooms already produce their own antibiotics



makes me think its more likely then I originally thought. As you even said, genetics only (although I would say mostly) acts on whats originally in the genetic code.
Imagine mushrooms that produced cannabinoids.:mushroom2:


--------------------
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
-George Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3,787
Loc: Puget Sound
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Doc_T]
    #11639552 - 12/12/09 10:14 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Sexual reproduction propagates those mutations, they are created through a variety of methods.
And most mutations aren't beneficial or harmful either, they just are there.




We have 3 types of mutations. Beneficial, neutral, and harmful. Given the equal chance that each could happen there is still a 2/3 chance it will not be beneficial.


--------------------
Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3,787
Loc: Puget Sound
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Hashishin13]
    #11639603 - 12/12/09 10:22 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hashishin13 said:
Although what ou say here:
Quote:

Mushrooms already produce their own antibiotics



makes me think its more likely then I originally thought. As you even said, genetics only (although I would say mostly) acts on whats originally in the genetic code.
Imagine mushrooms that produced cannabinoids.:mushroom2:




Most organisms produce their own antibiotics in some way.

Instead of making contam resistant mushrooms we should be studying the antibiotics the mushrooms around us already produce. Could be some cures for antibiotic resistant diseases.


--------------------
Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHashishin13
Male User Gallery
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 315
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #11639737 - 12/12/09 10:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

You have an amazing spore collection Blimey. I'm jealous, I hope to have a collection rivaling yours someday.
In case your wondering, posting this as a response instead of sending you a private message has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to gain access to the marketplace.:grin: (in 17 posts and 27 days :mad2:)


--------------------
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
-George Washington


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetroncotron
Stranger

Registered: 12/13/08
Posts: 79
Last seen: 11 years, 23 days
Re: Mushroom genetics? [Re: Hashishin13]
    #11641611 - 12/13/09 09:29 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

related to the mushrooms sexes, about 85-90% of basidiomycetes are heterothallic, and about 60-70% of them are tetrapolar. That means they have two mating type loci, but usually the mating type loci is multi-allelic and their specificities are indicated by numbers (A1,A2,A3..;B1,B2,B3...)Some basidiomycetes have hundreds of specificities (i don“t know how many has psilocybe genera) but for sexual development is enough if mates carry different alleles. In other species as pleurotus there is also a cytoplasmic factor controlling mating type.

Source: Heterologous expression of mating type genes in basidiomycetes


About the mutations, i would better classify them depending the  position of the wrong nucleotide in the codon.

missense mutation ----- producing faulty proteins
nonsense mutation ------ incomplete protein
silent mutation ------ normal protein

despite random mutations are usually negative, UVC is still sometimes used in some studies.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Mushroom genetics Gnome69 793 1 09/19/02 11:59 AM
by Suntzu
* Genetics of Mushrooms... angryshroom 2,827 17 06/02/02 03:17 AM
by r05c03
* mushroom genetics *DELETED* phrozendata 1,273 4 05/12/02 12:45 PM
by Anonymous
* high temp loving mushrooms fuzzysquirelnuts 3,973 9 05/23/02 12:20 PM
by strang
* What's wrong with Antibiotics?
( 1 2 all )
cheesenoonions 3,745 33 04/24/03 11:10 PM
by Suntzu
* *DELETED* Hefex78 2,309 13 12/05/03 02:04 PM
by mycofile
* Genetic Mutation (Potency). Humidity 3,471 9 12/07/01 01:44 PM
by Humidity
* Mycelium & Genetic Exchange Gawain 3,226 13 10/23/02 09:42 PM
by Anonymous

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
5,309 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.