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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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How on Earth is aspartame AVAILABLE?? * 1
    #11582804 - 12/04/09 09:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I don't get it. With the overwhelming evidence that aspartame is a known carcinogen amongst other things how is it that this scourge still frequents can's of soda etc?

If you don't know what I mean by overwhelming evidence you can start learning from this video (thanks go to wiccan-seeker's signature.)



--------------------
 
(\___/)
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(”)__(”)
:amanitajar:


Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

Edited by PassiveAgressive (12/07/09 02:58 PM)

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Invisibledr_gonz

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? *DELETED* [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582809 - 12/04/09 09:34 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by dr_gonz

Reason for deletion: f

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InvisibleP-O
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582818 - 12/04/09 09:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ya man that shit is poison!  I try to never eat it!

Sooooo many products have it.  95% of all gum has aspartame in it. 



Last night on the news a dog was getting seizures from ingesting it. and they said "aspartame is safe for humans, not for dogs"  :albundy:

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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: dr_gonz]
    #11582820 - 12/04/09 09:37 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dr_gonz said:
I smoke aspartame :shrug:




Wiki aspartame

Melting point 246–247 °C
Boiling point decomposes


Please tell me your joking. What' the point?


--------------------
 
(\___/)
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(”)__(”)
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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: P-O]
    #11582822 - 12/04/09 09:37 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah it's pretty annoying that virtually ALL gum has aspartame in it...

I like gum dammit!


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InvisibleP-O
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Adamist]
    #11582835 - 12/04/09 09:38 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

cinnamon is the only kind that doesn't...

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InvisibleBoutang
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582839 - 12/04/09 09:39 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

There was a Coast 2 Coast AM show on how it became legal.
In a nutshell when it came up to vote if it should be legal or not it was turned down.  Then they hired someone whose single vote overturned and made the voting completely pointless.


--------------------

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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582840 - 12/04/09 09:39 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The fact that it's still on the market infuriates me!


--------------------
 
(\___/)
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(”)__(”)
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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

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OfflineMchaggis
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582847 - 12/04/09 09:41 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Quote:

dr_gonz said:
I smoke aspartame :shrug:




Wiki aspartame

Melting point 246�247 �C
Boiling point decomposes


Please tell me your joking. What' the point?




Dude if you've never smoked aspartame you're missing out.

People continue to chew/smoke/snort all kinds of carcinogenic things. What else is new? :shrug:


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I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body

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InvisibleP-O
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582853 - 12/04/09 09:42 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

and sooooooooooooooooo many people use this poison.  even my mom would rather put this poison in her coffee then use sugar.  :mad2:

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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582877 - 12/04/09 09:45 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

:kingcrankey: :rabble:  DOWN WITH ASPARTAME!!


--------------------
 
(\___/)
(= ‘.’=)
(”)__(”)
:amanitajar:


Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582891 - 12/04/09 09:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Aspartame should be a schedule I substance by all accounts if you were to ask me (or most sane and educated people on the topic.)

Seriously people, WHY is this STILL legal?


--------------------
 
(\___/)
(= ‘.’=)
(”)__(”)
:amanitajar:


Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

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Offlinetektonic
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582934 - 12/04/09 09:57 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

because it causes illness's that fund the drug companies

is there any better way to get millions of people to make themselves sick or terminally ill?

and some people would rather be crazy/dead than excersize :shrug:

total bullshit


--------------------
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InvisibleP-O
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: tektonic]
    #11582939 - 12/04/09 09:58 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

the drug companies love cancer and sick people!:mad2:

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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582966 - 12/04/09 10:04 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It makes sense, not sane but it still makes sense.


--------------------
 
(\___/)
(= ‘.’=)
(”)__(”)
:amanitajar:


Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

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InvisibleP-O
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582970 - 12/04/09 10:04 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

$ > everything and everyone ...is there moto

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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11582971 - 12/04/09 10:04 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
:kingcrankey: :rabble:  DOWN WITH ASPARTAME!!




--------------------
 
(\___/)
(= ‘.’=)
(”)__(”)
:amanitajar:


Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.

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InvisibleP-O
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11583001 - 12/04/09 10:11 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
:kingcrankey: :rabble:  DOWN WITH ASPARTAME!!






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InvisibleArden
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: P-O]
    #11583138 - 12/04/09 10:38 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Like fatties who drink diet Coke, using this foul-tasting shit makes people feel better, though it only minimally reduces caloric intake.

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Offline13.step
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: P-O]
    #11583141 - 12/04/09 10:38 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

You guys are gonna hate me...but I think we have greater problems then aspartame...i am honestly more concerned about MSG and Alzheimer's then aspartame and whatever.It seems the only concerning aspects are that it metabolizes to aspartic acid which might be an excitotoxin,methanol which is poison and aspartylphenylalanine diketopiperazine which might be carcinogenic OK it doesn't sound to appealing and i sure as hell would like to avoid it...but i don't think it's as dangerous as it shown in this movie...they don't fucking explain anything...I only see lots of accounts of people who suffer from things and blame aspartame,and wtf is it with those people using it like it's the holy grail of healthy living trough chemistry???Of course it's not gonna be healthy for you if you eat kilos of it...what is the point in it??They should put warning labels on the products and some brains in some people.


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Offlinedrawde
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11583155 - 12/04/09 10:41 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The best way to do something about it is do not buy products with it and educate others about the risks.


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InvisibleP-O
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11583156 - 12/04/09 10:42 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

if your smart you will avoid : msg, aspartame, and fluoride!


if our culture was smart they would be banned!  Instead we are lead to ingest poison, while medical plants like cannabis are illegal!

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Offline13.step
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: P-O]
    #11583208 - 12/04/09 10:52 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If our culture was smart they wouldn't be used by anybody,because our culture is not that smart they should be banned but are not and cannabis is illegal...there is something morbidly hilarious about a fat person drinking a over-sized diet coke...


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Offlineupinthetrees
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: dr_gonz]
    #11583216 - 12/04/09 10:54 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dr_gonz said:
I smoke aspartame :shrug:



I eat it for breakfast but no big deal.


--------------------

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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: upinthetrees]
    #11583347 - 12/04/09 11:24 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

How on Earth is aspartame legal??




Because its quite safe like msg, aspartame is only dangerous if you have phenylketonuria

There are far mare dangerous things out there :rolleyes:

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OfflineAsAboveSoBelow
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #11583385 - 12/04/09 11:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Is it really in most types of gum? I'm gonna get cancer for sure then, with the amount of gum ive swallowed


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You're gonna get hurt real bad :smile:

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OfflineDarkestone
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: P-O]
    #11583857 - 12/04/09 01:16 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PostiveOutlook said:
and sooooooooooooooooo many people use this poison.  even my mom would rather put this poison in her coffee then use sugar.  :mad2:





My poor parent-in-laws got so confused by me recently, I have always tried to keep my kids treats to one or two a day, I am a big organic/non-processed/whole grain/raw milk health nut, I even water down their juice just a little so that they can get as much spring water as possible.  I digress,

So they went over there and I didn't want to be rude but my mother-in-law is a diabetic and would try to excuse giving them tons of treats by giving them her sugar free, aspartame filled or splenda filled treats.  I finally had to break the news to her that while I don't like too much sugar, I prefer it to man-made garbage. though not in so many words. 

The look on her face:what:  Classic!  She is still trying to figure me out.  Poor thing. Maybe I will get her a rubix cube for Christmas.

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Invisibleelementswrath
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11583865 - 12/04/09 01:17 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

thanks for the video!
now i know the dangers of aspartame, never going to touch that horrible shit again.

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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: AsAboveSoBelow]
    #11583867 - 12/04/09 01:17 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

this does relate to the topic I promise :P

System of a Down - Sugar



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH0k557E7Nc

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Offlinekanglow
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11583876 - 12/04/09 01:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

How on Earth is aspartame legal??




One word:  Profit.


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This thread has been closed.

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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11583895 - 12/04/09 01:22 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

my moms addicted to diet Pepsi

shes had more problems quitting diet Pepsi then she did Oxycontin lol

she has Fibromyalgia and she feels 10 x better when she doesn't drink the Pepsi

shes cut down a lot but she can't quite kick the habit

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InvisibleKiefish
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Darkestone]
    #11583982 - 12/04/09 01:39 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Darkestone said:
Quote:

PostiveOutlook said:
and sooooooooooooooooo many people use this poison.  even my mom would rather put this poison in her coffee then use sugar.  :mad2:





My poor parent-in-laws got so confused by me recently, I have always tried to keep my kids treats to one or two a day, I am a big organic/non-processed/whole grain/raw milk health nut, I even water down their juice just a little so that they can get as much spring water as possible.  I digress,

So they went over there and I didn't want to be rude but my mother-in-law is a diabetic and would try to excuse giving them tons of treats by giving them her sugar free, aspartame filled or splenda filled treats.  I finally had to break the news to her that while I don't like too much sugar, I prefer it to man-made garbage. though not in so many words. 

The look on her face:what:  Classic!  She is still trying to figure me out.  Poor thing. Maybe I will get her a rubix cube for Christmas.




The... smugness of this post... I'm... CHOKING on it!!! *chokes to death* :lol:

But all kidding aside, I probably would have done the same.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11584152 - 12/04/09 02:13 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
I don't get it. With the overwhelming evidence that aspartame is a known carcinogen amongst other things how is it that this scourge still frequents can's of soda etc?

If you don't know what I mean by overwhelming evidence you can start learning from this video (thanks go to wiccan-seeker's signature.)






Why make it illegal? Do you like to tell people what they can and can not consume? Maybe we should just let people make their own choices instead of making it for them.

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Invisibleelementswrath
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11584162 - 12/04/09 02:15 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

that's not the point, they are feeding it to people and not telling them what they are consuming.
it's as good as feeding bleach to your dog.
it's cruel and it's damaging to society.

how could you believe that something like that is alright?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11584167 - 12/04/09 02:16 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Any product you buy that aspartame is in states that it is in it.

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OfflineLucidx
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11584169 - 12/04/09 02:16 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I've snorted aspartame in the form of crystal lite mix once, it got me buzzed, I'm serious.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11584170 - 12/04/09 02:17 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it's as good as feeding bleach to your dog.




Also, you're not going to make your point by making stupid exaggerations like this.

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Offlinetektonic
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11584172 - 12/04/09 02:17 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

let people make their own choices instead of making it for them.





legalize pot!


--------------------
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Invisibleelementswrath
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11584178 - 12/04/09 02:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

they tried to hide the negative affects of aspartame, making people ignorantly poison themselves, just because they are greedy corporate bastards in it for the money.

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Invisibleelementswrath
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11584183 - 12/04/09 02:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

it's as good as feeding bleach to your dog.




Also, you're not going to make your point by making stupid exaggerations like this.




it has the same analogy, i know it's exaggerated but listen to the actual points.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11584191 - 12/04/09 02:21 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

elementswrath said:
they tried to hide the negative affects of aspartame, making people ignorantly poison themselves, just because they are greedy corporate bastards in it for the money.




What of these supposed effects have been proven in clinical studies or research put through a peer-reviewed process?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11584212 - 12/04/09 02:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:












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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Adamist]
    #11584217 - 12/04/09 02:26 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Adamist said:
Yeah it's pretty annoying that virtually ALL gum has aspartame in it...




I bought some trix cereal for my kids one day, I opened the box, grabbed a
handful and popped it in my mouth, immediately the flavor of aspartame hit
me, I spit it out and immediately searched the box, there was a tiny logo
for nutrasweet in one corner near the bottom... I wont buy any of the kids
cereals from general mills any more

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: P-O]
    #11584232 - 12/04/09 02:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PostiveOutlook said:
if your smart you will avoid ... fluoride!




New Jersey puts it in the water. we cant avoid it.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11584243 - 12/04/09 02:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

did you watch any of the 1 hour long video at all?
aspartame is made with aspartic acid, phenylaline and methyl ether.
aspartic acid is a cytotoxin.
phenylaline causes mood swings,panic, seizures.
methyl ether causes brain damage, disorientation, tumors, brain bleeding, shortness of breath,cardiac arrest ect.

not safe.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11584250 - 12/04/09 02:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Link me to a research study that shows that aspartame is bad for you. A Youtube video is not proof.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11584326 - 12/04/09 02:50 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

there is thousands of articles on this.
here is some from trusted article sites.
http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/side-effects-of-aspartame-67811.html
http://www.aspartame.org/aspartame_latest.html

here is info on phenylaline.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/phenylalanine-000318.htm

aspartic acid.
http://www.janethull.com/askdrhull/article.php?id=014

note:read other articles provided by site.

methyl ether.

i couldn't find a layman explanation for you as a site.
maybe you could try researching it.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11584336 - 12/04/09 02:52 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In exchange, you can read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy#Reported_and_postulated_effects

It explains why the effects you and the articles state are either bunk or irrelevant.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11584348 - 12/04/09 02:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

From one of the links you sent me:

Quote:

The American Dietetic Association (ADA) recently evaluated the low calorie artificial sweetener aspartame and its affects on weight, appetite, desire for sweetness and alleged adverse reactions for its Evidence Analysis Library (EAL).  After the evaluation, the ADA reaffirmed the conclusion of regulatory and scientific authorities around the world that aspartame is not associated with adverse effects for the general population, including hypersensitivity reactions, elevated blood methanol or formate levels, or brain cancers. This conclusion statement was given a “Grade 1,” the highest grade on the EAL scale, signifying there is good evidence supporting the conclusion.  Further, the conclusion statement notes, “In patients with diabetes, aspartame consumption is not associated with elevated plasma phenylalanine and tyrosine levels, fasting glucose control, intolerance to aspartame, opthalmologic effects, heart rhythm or weight.”



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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11584376 - 12/04/09 03:01 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

interesting.:crazy2:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11584424 - 12/04/09 03:08 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

elementswrath said:
did you watch any of the 1 hour long video at all?
aspartame is made with aspartic acid, phenylaline and methyl ether.
aspartic acid is a cytotoxin.
phenylaline causes mood swings,panic, seizures.
methyl ether causes brain damage, disorientation, tumors, brain bleeding, shortness of breath,cardiac arrest ect.

not safe.




Do you know what salt is made of? Sodium & chlorine. They'd both fuck you up if you ingested them. Quick, lets stop putting salt in out bodies. :rolleyes:

Unless you have any evidence that aspartame is metabolized into any of those things you mentioned, listing the toxic ingredients that are used in it's production is a waste of space.


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Edited by CMACD (12/04/09 03:10 PM)

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11584648 - 12/04/09 03:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Its legal because decisions about food and substance regulation aren't made based upon youtube videos.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: badchad]
    #11584982 - 12/04/09 04:44 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

:orly:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Adamist]
    #11585032 - 12/04/09 04:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

hey its only cancerous???  regular soda is better for ya.. whats the big deal?


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: nowwhoutthink]
    #11585062 - 12/04/09 04:58 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nowwhoutthink said:
hey its only cancerous???




Do you have a source for this?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11585069 - 12/04/09 05:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
In exchange, you can read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy#Reported_and_postulated_effects

It explains why the effects you and the articles state are either bunk or irrelevant.





and do you know why I hate it... because it tastes bad

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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: nowwhoutthink]
    #11585086 - 12/04/09 05:03 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In 1997, due to public concerns the UK government introduced a new regulation obliging food makers who use sweeteners to state clearly next to the name of their product the phrase "with sweeteners".[30]

In 2007, the Indonesian government considered banning Aspartame.[31] In the Philippines, the small political party Alliance for Rural Concerns introduced House Bill 4747 in 2008 with the aim of having aspartame banned from the food supply.[32] The US state of New Mexico introduced a bill to ban aspartame in 2007,[33][34][35] and Hawaiian legislators signed a 2009 resolution asking the FDA to rescind approval.[36] In March 2009, the California OEHHA identified aspartame as a chemical for consultation by its Carcinogen Identification Committee, in accordance with California state Proposition 65.[37]

In 2007, the UK supermarket chains Sainsbury's,[38] M&S,[39] and Wal-Mart subsidiary Asda,[40] announced that they would no longer use aspartame in their own label products.[41] In April 2009, Ajinomoto Sweeteners Europe, the makers of Aspartame in Europe, responded to Asda's 'no nasties' campaign by filing a complaint of malicious falsehood against Asda in the English courts.[42][43] In July 2009, Asda won the legal case after the trial judge construed the 'no nasties' labelling to "not mean that aspartame was potentially harmful or unhealthy", though it might be appealed.[44][45]

In 2009, the South African retailer Woolworths announced it was removing aspartame from its own-brand foods.

http:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11585102 - 12/04/09 05:06 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/28/health/webmd/main712605.shtml

http://www.rense.com/general77/lowdoses.htm

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/01/10/aspartame-brain-cancer-and-the-fda.aspx

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/34040.php


just a few,,,,,

Quote:

(WebMD)  A study of rats links low doses of aspartame -- the sweetener in NutraSweet, Equal, and thousands of consumer products -- to leukemia and lymphoma.





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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: nowwhoutthink]
    #11585131 - 12/04/09 05:10 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

All of those links point to the same study, which has been widely criticized for its methodology and that their conclusions are not in sync with their findings.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11585148 - 12/04/09 05:13 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

true....but its been a highly discussed topic and many beleve it to be less healthy than regular soda or sugar.

i stay away from it personally. drink up! im not your dad hah. just saying...

i had a huge 30 page thing about its cancerous properties, but deleted it.


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11585167 - 12/04/09 05:16 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.rense.com/general35/evid.htm

seems to be a lot of good info here(mentions a lot of doctors and peer reviewed studies which supposedly found that aspartame causes brain tumors)

I don't know enough to say either way but if its true then that wiki page is a complete crock of shit

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11585193 - 12/04/09 05:20 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Says Epstein in his Huffington Post article, “Under the explicit provisions of the 1958 Delaney Law, which requires an automatic ban on carcinogenic food additives, it is anticipated that Dr. Margaret Hamburg, the newly appointed FDA Commissioner and inspiring public health advocate, will promptly ban the continued use of aspartame.”

http://dorway.com/dorwblog/could-aspartame-finally-face-a-ban/

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11585222 - 12/04/09 05:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

When the G.D. Searle Co. sought FDA approval for NutraSweet they submitted doctored, fraudulent "studies," so corrupt that the Department of Justice appointed two prosecutors to Investigate Searle. Searle's lawyers hired the prosecutors and the case died with the statute of limitations.

Listen in on aspartame hearings in 1976 between Senator Ted Kennedy and FDA Commissioner Alexander Schmidt at the Senate Subcommittee on Labor and Public Health:

Commissioner Schmidt: "Today I would like to report to you the final results of the Food and Drug Administration's detailed investigation of animal studies performed by Searle."

Senator Kennedy: "Is this the first time, to your knowledge, that such a problem has been uncovered of this magnitude by the Food and Drug Administration?"

Dr. Schmidt: "It is certainly the first time that such an extensive and detailed examination of this kind has taken place. We have never before conducted such an examination as we did at Searle. From time to time, we have been aware of isolated problems, but we were not aware of the extent of the problem in one pharmaceutical house."

Senator Kennedy: "The extensive nature of the almost unbelievable range of abuses discovered by the FDA on several major Searle products is profoundly disturbing."

http://www.mpwhi.com/fda_hid_research_that_damned_aspartame.htm

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11585238 - 12/04/09 05:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"The consequences are now evidence in the explosive rise of brain tumors nationally. The cluster of brain tumors in my own community serves as an example. The analysis of drinking water fails to demonstrate other chemical contaminants. My recent book, 'A Manifesto for American Medicine' details these and other related problems and the still ignored epidemic of aspartame disease is an unconscionable result of which both the population and its children will have to pay.

"Some of the details of these two studies left out of the Bressler Report were scientifically objectionable and again should have precluded the FDA approving it for human use. As an example, one fetus showed hydrocephalus. Increased intracranial venous pressure can lead to either pseudotumor cerebri or hydrocephalus. I have already written a report on my clinical insights concerning a remediable cause of pseudotumor cerebri (benign intracranial hypertension) due to aspartame several years ago and now there are 20 cases in my data base"

H. J. Roberts, M.D.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11585272 - 12/04/09 05:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

While the potential dangers of aspartame are less than conclusively defined, it seems much more intelligent to err on the side of safety and just eat sugar.  Aspartame hardly reduces caloric intake, and as far as I'm aware has no substantial benefits along the lines of its intended use (reducing the effects of sugar intake).

But, like Pris, my real reason for not eating aspartame is that it tastes awful, simple as that.

Also, if you're looking for a reason not to eat aspartame but can't be arsed to sort through scientific literature to support your decision, just say you don't use it because it's made by the evil Monsanto! (Monsanto actually no longer makes the stuff, but what're the odds someone will call you out on that? :hehehe:)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11585317 - 12/04/09 05:39 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Aspartame should remain legal, but anyone selling products containing aspartame should make sure to list that ingredient on the label.  It's my personal choice whether or not I ingest any potentially harmful chemical, not the government's.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11585378 - 12/04/09 05:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
I don't get it. With the overwhelming evidence that aspartame is a known carcinogen amongst other things how is it that this scourge still frequents can's of soda etc?

If you don't know what I mean by overwhelming evidence you can start learning from this video (thanks go to wiccan-seeker's signature.)







In small amounts it's not a problem. It's not biocumulative so your body gets rid of it. The real risk is people who drink diet drinks all day long. It's especially dangerous when pregnant women consume a lot of aspartame, not good for a developing fetus at all.

Edit: you know what pisses me off? When people with no formal education in biochemistry or science in general suddenly think they're a brilliant messenger of god because a youtube video (which was also made by a person with no science background) said something is bad. If you don't know what you're talking about, S T F U !

Edited by Gumby (12/04/09 05:54 PM)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11585403 - 12/04/09 05:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
I don't get it. With the overwhelming evidence that aspartame is a known carcinogen amongst other things how is it that this scourge still frequents can's of soda etc?

If you don't know what I mean by overwhelming evidence you can start learning from this video (thanks go to wiccan-seeker's signature.)






Aspartame was only found to be dangerous among super toxic amounts given to rats....humans cannot drink enough cola to pose a serious risk. I mean, everytime you go out in the sunlight, you're exposed to UV rays- those are cancerous too, should we ban sunlight?


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11585547 - 12/04/09 06:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Aspartame should remain legal, but anyone selling products containing aspartame should make sure to list that ingredient on the label.  It's my personal choice whether or not I ingest any potentially harmful chemical, not the government's.



:werd:

Making products which are only dangerous to someone who consumes them illegal is absurd. It's the same justification as for making drugs illegal. It violates the notion of personal accountability and perpetuates the oxymoronic notion of victimless crimes.

The fact is, people choose to consume aspartame. Whether or not they're aware of any potential risks in doing so is irrelevant, because information on that topic is freely available to anyone interested.


That said, regulation of products containing teratogenic substances should be regulated, as these pose a risk to children in the womb (who cannot give consent). In such cases, it should at minimum be made aware to consumers the potential effects it could have on future fertility and offspring.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11585593 - 12/04/09 06:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote from Brian Dunnings critical thinking article.

Link at http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4127


"When you hear claims that are supported only by a fringe minority that's in opposition to the scientific consensus, you have good reason to be skeptical right off the bat, but it doesn't mean it's not worth looking into. Aspartame has been looked into ad nauseum even after its approval, and found safe at every try; so at some point you have to depart from rationality to continue supporting the claims made against it. Enjoy your diet Dr. Pepper, it's not going to hurt you; if it was, I'd have been dead decades ago".

Edited by Jaegar (12/05/09 01:42 AM)

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OfflineJaegar
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Jaegar]
    #11585596 - 12/04/09 06:26 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Enjoy some critical thinking people.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11585624 - 12/04/09 06:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The question isn't why is aspartame legal, the question is why is LSD ILLEGAL?

The two are sort of connected


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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Jaegar]
    #11585643 - 12/04/09 06:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I wonder how difficult it would be to create a hoax in order to discredit your opposition

seems as though there is a lot of valid information out there so why would someone feel the need to falsify data?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11585679 - 12/04/09 06:37 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The following studies were considered pivotal.

Entry No. FAMF 134                Title
E-5            An Evaluation of Embryotoxic and Teratogenic Potential in the Rat (SC-18862)
E-11            Two Generation Reproduction Study in Rats (SC-18862)
E-28            106 Week Oral Toxicity Dog Study (SC-18862)
E-32            52-WEEK ORAL TOXICITY IN THE INFANT MONKEY (SC-18862)
E-33            Appendix:  Two Year Toxicity Study in the Rat (SC-18862)
E-34            Two Year Toxicity Study in the Rat (SC-18862)
E-70            Lifetime Toxicity Study in the Rat (SC-18862)
E-75            104-Week Toxicity in the Mouse (SC-18862)
E-76            110-Week Toxicity Study in the Mouse (SC-19192)
E-77 & 78    115-Week Oral Tumorigenicity Study in the Rat (SC-19192)
E-86            A Supplemental Study of Dog Brains from a 106-Week Oral Toxicity Study (SC-18862)
E-87            A Supplemental Study of Rat Brains from Two Tumorigenicity Studies (SC-18862)
E-89            An Evaluation of Embryotoxic and Teratogenic Potential in the Mouse (SC-18862)
E-90            An Evaluation of Embryotoxic and Teratogenic Potential in the Rabbit (SC-18862)

”We also note there were other studies of interest in considering the safety review for aspartame approval.

Sincerely yours,
Rudolph Harris, Ph.D., Branch Chief
Novel Ingredients Branch, HFS-207
Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition”

So thus, we arrive at the plain admission by the FDA that they used E-5 and E89, the concealed faulty studies, to approve aspartame; Jerome Bressler said these were the worst ones.  “ Pivotal” means studies from which data will be used to make significant claims; of vital or crucial importance. It doesn’t stop there.  Notice E-32 is a 52-week oral toxicity infant monkey study.  In this study 5 of 7 infant monkeys had grand mal seizures and 1 died.  http://www.dorway.com/raoreport.txt

E-32 is FDA ADMISSION that aspartame triggers seizures.  Yet they used it to approve the poison. FDA’s report of 92 aspartame symptoms from coma to death lists 4 types of seizures.  In 1986 Atty Jim Turner and the Community Nutrition Institute filed a Citizens Petition to ban aspartame because of seizures and blinding. FDA refused, even though they knew it for years.

Turner, who tried to stop approval said today: “Any rational interpretation of pivotal studies would have caused any reasonable individual to deny approval of aspartame.  Every scientist that looked at the pivotal studies said they don’t support safety of NutraSweet and did not support its approval.” Aspartame was approved through the political chicanery of Don Rumsfeld who was CEO of G. D. Searle and a member of President Reagan’s transition team (one of the ugliest, darkest chapters in the checkered history of the FDA).  Reagan appointed Arthur Hayes as FDA Commissioner  and fired FDA Commissioner Jere Goyan who was going to sign the petition revoking aspartame into law.  Reagan wrote an Executive Order making FDA powerless to sign that petition until Hayes arrived to kill it.  Obviously Hayes didn’t care what the pivotal studies showed.  In the movie, “Sweet Misery:  A Poisoned World”, Atty Turner explains what happened.  http://www.soundandfury.tv/pages/rumsfeld2.html

http://dorway.com/dorwblog/fda-hid-research-that-damned-aspartame/

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Gumby]
    #11586497 - 12/04/09 08:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gumby said:

Edit: you know what pisses me off? When people with no formal education in biochemistry or science in general suddenly think they're a brilliant messenger of god because a youtube video (which was also made by a person with no science background) said something is bad. If you don't know what you're talking about, S T F U !





:cheers: Gumby, its good to hear from someone who isn't wearing a tinfoil hat, i genuinely didn't know if most of the posts in this thread were serious or just taking the piss



Quote:

elementswrath said:
did you watch any of the 1 hour long video at all?
aspartame is made with aspartic acid, phenylaline and methyl ether.
aspartic acid is a cytotoxin.
phenylaline causes mood swings,panic, seizures.
methyl ether causes brain damage, disorientation, tumors, brain bleeding, shortness of breath,cardiac arrest ect.

not safe.




:facepalm::curbyourenthusiasm:

i hope you realise alot of you is composed of aspartic acid and phenylalanine

Edited by Spiderbaby (12/04/09 08:41 PM)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #11586627 - 12/04/09 08:50 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

man the fda approves everything...its so funny the shit they think is "safe"


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: nowwhoutthink]
    #11586818 - 12/04/09 09:13 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:
    elementswrath said:
    did you watch any of the 1 hour long video at all?
    aspartame is made with aspartic acid, phenylaline and methyl ether.
    aspartic acid is a cytotoxin.
    phenylaline causes mood swings,panic, seizures.
    methyl ether causes brain damage, disorientation, tumors, brain bleeding, shortness of breath,cardiac arrest ect.

    not safe.



:facepalm::curbyourenthusiasm:

i hope you realise alot of you is composed of aspartic acid and phenylalanine


i heard that phenylalananine is, but taking a bit to much can unbalance other receptors making you more prone to seizures and mood swings(that's what the video told me:shrug: i guess i shouldn't believe it?) , but aspartic acid? no i didn't.
I don't really know too much about the body, i just remember any little bits of knowledge i can

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11586854 - 12/04/09 09:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

not safe for sure...i tell my gpa that all the time....doesnt listen though. yets hes diabetic...so nm hah


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Neuron]
    #11586949 - 12/04/09 09:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Neuron said:
Aspartame was only found to be dangerous among super toxic amounts given to rats....humans cannot drink enough cola to pose a serious risk.





incorrect, I risk having a nasty taste in my mouth for hours if I drink one of those diet drinks

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11586961 - 12/04/09 09:32 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

its just bad and unnatural.  but i think its called stevia..its natural i thinkbetter for ya than aspartame


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Edited by nowwhoutthink (12/04/09 09:32 PM)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: nowwhoutthink]
    #11587178 - 12/04/09 10:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Stevia tastes awful too :shrug:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11587188 - 12/04/09 10:07 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I'll stick with sugar

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11587201 - 12/04/09 10:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think it's hilarious that a bunch of people trying to get soft drugs legalized want to ban an artificial sweetener.

:rofl:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: dr_gonz]
    #11587211 - 12/04/09 10:10 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dr_gonz said:
I smoke aspartame :shrug:



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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #11587250 - 12/04/09 10:15 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Do you really need to ask this? !~ Why is alcohol still legal to an extent, why are ciggerettes still legal in a sense, those kill more combined then most things illegal will ever do. Aspartame originally was tested by people who sold it so naturally all the tests were biased, there is an awesome documentary, called Sweet Misery, pretty much lays it all out unbiased and pretty scary. In rat tests I think it was something like 29% had a huge increase in brain tumor growthage, that might be wrong its been a while sense I saw the doc, but its scary, I honestly hate the taste of it you can distinguish it fairly easily. I hear alot people saying well the amounts are so small in the food/beverages that its not really a risk, but people fail to realize how many things contain aspartame so I think that rationalization is fucking rediculous. They banned saccharine super quick when they found out how horrible that shit was. Honestly it all boils down to money, money money money money money. The root of all evil.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: snoot]
    #11587285 - 12/04/09 10:21 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

snoot said:
Do you really need to ask this? !~ Why is alcohol still legal to an extent, why are ciggerettes still legal in a sense, those kill more combined then most things illegal will ever do. Aspartame originally was tested by people who sold it so naturally all the tests were biased, there is an awesome documentary, called Sweet Misery, pretty much lays it all out unbiased and pretty scary. In rat tests I think it was something like 29% had a huge increase in brain tumor growthage, that might be wrong its been a while sense I saw the doc, but its scary, I honestly hate the taste of it you can distinguish it fairly easily. I hear alot people saying well the amounts are so small in the food/beverages that its not really a risk, but people fail to realize how many things contain aspartame so I think that rationalization is fucking rediculous. They banned saccharine super quick when they found out how horrible that shit was. Honestly it all boils down to money, money money money money money. The root of all evil.




ya it tastes like asshole lol

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11587302 - 12/04/09 10:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Aspartame should be a schedule I substance by all accounts if you were to ask me (or most sane and educated people on the topic.)

Seriously people, WHY is this STILL legal?



Better question, why is bud still illegal when this shit is considered okay.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: stonedimperium]
    #11587340 - 12/04/09 10:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

it's because the government doesn't give a rats ass about you!
too busy doing other things like killing innocent people.
truth is, it's all a corporate stunt to gain selfish benefits.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11587489 - 12/04/09 10:58 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Aspartame should remain legal, but anyone selling products containing aspartame should make sure to list that ingredient on the label.  It's my personal choice whether or not I ingest any potentially harmful chemical, not the government's.



:werd:

Making products which are only dangerous to someone who consumes them illegal is absurd. It's the same justification as for making drugs illegal. It violates the notion of personal accountability and perpetuates the oxymoronic notion of victimless crimes.

The fact is, people choose to consume aspartame. Whether or not they're aware of any potential risks in doing so is irrelevant, because information on that topic is freely available to anyone interested.


That said, regulation of products containing teratogenic substances should be regulated, as these pose a risk to children in the womb (who cannot give consent). In such cases, it should at minimum be made aware to consumers the potential effects it could have on future fertility and offspring.




Not werd.

You're holding a double standard; for one substance it is the consumer's responsibility to be proactive about educating themselves, but not for the other. Why are teratogenic substances special? I could just as well ingest something that could cause mental illness, and thus harm to others, as I could ingest something that would affect my potential fetus.

Furthermore, egulation and illegalization are entirely different issues. Do you realistically expect every citizen to be thoroughly educate themselves on any number of the thousands of chemicals that could be added to foods?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11587502 - 12/04/09 11:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

elementswrath said:
it's because the government doesn't give a rats ass about you!
too busy doing other things like killing innocent people.
truth is, it's all a corporate stunt to gain selfish benefits.



I know man, and frankly I'm getting sick of it.  I feel like America is going to run itself to the fucking ground because it was bought and sold so long ago to people who only care about short term profits


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11587568 - 12/04/09 11:13 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

true stevia does...thats why i drink reg sugar. ha...


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: nowwhoutthink]
    #11587622 - 12/04/09 11:24 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think the main problem is the fact that Sugar has been portait as the sole thing that is making people fat and unhealthy and thats the problem, the talk of taxing sugar, and all this and that, the problem is peoples lifestyles and not sugar, sugar has been around forever and its only the past decade or so that it somehow has become the thing that is making people fat and stupid. We dont need all this artificial shit that is worse for you then sugar is., Misinformation is far deadlier then sugar is. sugar:boobs:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: snoot]
    #11587719 - 12/04/09 11:43 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

yea our bodies are just loaded with artificial shit....they say there is so much preservatives in food that it actually helps they body perverse longer once dead.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: nowwhoutthink]
    #11587888 - 12/05/09 12:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

yz, lots of shit can be turned into carcinogens, like meats that are preserved with nitrates, when they are grilled and charred, heterocyclic amines are produced which are highly carcinogenic.
Quote:

Safer Alternatives for Grilling
Other foods produce undetectable levels or negligible concentrations of HCAs when they are grilled. These include soy-based veggie burgers, veggie brochettes, and portabello mushroom “steaks.” These healthy vegetarian alternatives are also low in fat and cholesterol.

Grilled Meat High in HCAs
Grilled meat yields some of the highest concentrations of heterocyclic amines (HCAs).6 These compounds form when a combination of creatine (a specific amino acid found in muscle) and sugars, which are both found naturally in meats, are heated during cooking.7 Grilling is particularly carcinogen-forming because the process involves high heat and long cooking times. Nearly all meats, including chicken and fish, produce significant amounts of HCAs when tossed on the grill.

Meat that is grilled, fried, or oven-broiled often produces large quantities of HCAs.8,9,10 The longer and hotter the meat is cooked, the more these compounds form. The major classes of HCAs include amino-imidazo-quinolines, or amino-imidazo-quinoxalines (collectively called IQ-type compounds), and amino-imidazo-pyridines. Within these families, MeIQx and PhIP are the members most abundantly found in cooked meats.

High meat intake has been correlated with increased risk of cancer, particularly of the breast and colon.11 While the fat in meat is most commonly associated with cancer risk, HCAs also play a role. As known mutagens, HCAs can bind directly to DNA, cause mutation, and promote cancer initiation.12

Because HCA concentration increases with heat and time, it would be expected that well-done meat would increase the risk of cancer. This is exactly what researchers have found. In a recent review of 30 epidemiologic studies investigating the link between well-done meat consumption and cancer at various sites, 80 percent showed a positive correlation.13

Plant-Based Foods Yield Negligible HCAs
Since creatine, one of the ingredients for the formation of HCAs, is mostly found in muscle tissue, it is not surprising that grilled veggie burgers and other vegetarian foods contain either no HCAs or negligible levels.6

Choosing plant-based foods instead of meat also lowers cancer risk in other ways. Not only are vegetables low in fat and high in fiber, they also contain many cancer-fighting substances. Carotenoids, the pigment that gives fruits and vegetables their dark colors, have been shown to help prevent cancer. Beta-carotene, present in dark green and yellow vegetables, helps protect against lung cancer and may help prevent cancers of the bladder, mouth, larynx, esophagus, breast, and other sites. Many studies have found that diets rich in fruits and vegetables and low in animal fat cut cancer risks.

Other Dangers of Grilled Meat
Grilling meat also produces other types of food mutagens. Grilling or broiling meat over a direct flame results in fat dropping on the hot fire and the production of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon-containing flames. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) adhere to the surface of food; the more intense the heat, the more PAHs are present.14 They are widely believed to play a significant role in human cancers.15 A fairly consistent association between grilled or broiled, but not fried, meat consumption and stomach cancer implies that dietary exposure to PAHs may play a role in the development of stomach cancer.11

Hotdogs Contain Other Carcinogens
While HCAs do not form in grilled hotdogs, these highly processed meat products contain other carcinogens. Nitrates and N-nitroso compounds, preservatives found in processed foods such as hotdogs and sausages, have long been recognized as potent carcinogens.16 Increased dietary intake of processed meats have been linked to increased cancers at various sites, including the colon,17 the pancreas,18 and the gastrointestinal tract.19

Red Meat Increases Cancer Risk
Red meat increases the risk of cancer. Recent studies show that red meat can increase colon cancer risk as much as 300 percent.20 While dietary factors such as the fat content and the lack of protective fiber in red meat are considered significant contributors, HCAs were specifically found to increase colon cancer risk.21

Chicken and Fish Increase Cancer Risk
Many people switch to chicken and fish, believing these to be healthier alternatives to beef. But that is not the case. On the grill, chicken produced more than 10 times the amount of the carcinogenic heterocyclic amines found in grilled beef. Furthermore, nearly all the HCAs detected were in the form of PhIP, which has specifically been implicated in breast cancer risk.12 This increased PhIP formation is likely due to the fact that chicken contains a large amount of phenylalanine, tyrosine, and isoeucine, amino acids that contribute to HCA formation. Fish also contains significant amounts of creatine, one of the other main ingredients for the formation of the carcinogens; not surprisingly, fish showed significant HCA formation as well.




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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11587920 - 12/05/09 12:40 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I just drank a can of aspartame, and it was delicious. Am I going to die?  :flowstone:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: grewya]
    #11587953 - 12/05/09 12:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

no but your going to fart tumors


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: snoot]
    #11587985 - 12/05/09 12:54 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

they came out with a new mix of stevia that has sugar in it now, basicaly its the best of both worlds with just a little bit of evil in it.

the main problem with sugar is that it fucks your teef hardcore, and gums even moreso, i think im gunna die from gingereyetiss


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11587999 - 12/05/09 12:59 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

elementswrath said:
i heard that phenylalananine is, but taking a bit to much can unbalance other receptors making you more prone to seizures and mood swings(that's what the video told me:shrug: i guess i shouldn't believe it?) , but aspartic acid? no i didn't.
I don't really know too much about the body, i just remember any little bits of knowledge i can




You heard, eh? So what kind of neuroscience or biochem background do you have that can back up your opinion?

What receptors does it effect exactly? What happens after that? What other neurotransmitter pathways are activated or inhibited? Do those pathways being activated or inhibited have any effects on the endocrine system? If the endocrine system is affected, what implications does that have on your health?
Yeah. Thats what I thought.

you.do.not.know.what.you.are.talking.about.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Gumby]
    #11588012 - 12/05/09 01:03 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

From what I understand phenylalananine is only dangerous to people who are extremely sensitive to.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Gumby]
    #11588017 - 12/05/09 01:05 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gumby said:
You heard, eh? So what kind of neuroscience or biochem background do you have that can back up your opinion?

What receptors does it effect exactly? What happens after that? What other neurotransmitter pathways are activated or inhibited? Do those pathways being activated or inhibited have any effects on the endocrine system? If the endocrine system is affected, what implications does that have on your health?
Yeah. Thats what I thought.

you.do.not.know.what.you.are.talking.about.



:owned: :foshizzle:


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Edited by Adamist (12/05/09 01:08 AM)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Adamist]
    #11588028 - 12/05/09 01:10 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Adamist said:
Quote:

Gumby said:
You heard, eh? So what kind of neuroscience or biochem background do you have that can back up your opinion?

What receptors does it effect exactly? What happens after that? What other neurotransmitter pathways are activated or inhibited? Do those pathways being activated or inhibited have any effects on the endocrine system? If the endocrine system is affected, what implications does that have on your health?
Yeah. Thats what I thought.

you.do.not.know.what.you.are.talking.about.



:owned: :foshizzle:




how many people actually know what they are talking about? I mean honestly, we can all google and wiki all day long but in the end no one really knows what they are talking about.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11588030 - 12/05/09 01:10 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

shit i put like 14 packets of sweet-n-low in my iced tea for lunch. I'm still standin.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: snoot]
    #11588031 - 12/05/09 01:11 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:



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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: snoot]
    #11588040 - 12/05/09 01:14 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

snoot said:
From what I understand phenylalananine is only dangerous to people who are extremely sensitive to.




Exactly. The people affected by phenylalanine have a genetic defect in which their body isn't able to metabolize it. Products with phenylalanine are required by the FDA to have a warning for phenylketonurics.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: snoot]
    #11588048 - 12/05/09 01:16 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

snoot said:
how many people actually know what they are talking about? I mean honestly, we can all google and wiki all day long but in the end no one really knows what they are talking about.




Are you stoned?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Gumby]
    #11588056 - 12/05/09 01:20 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Was that a rhetorical question? :lol:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Gumby]
    #11588073 - 12/05/09 01:23 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gumby said:
Quote:

snoot said:
how many people actually know what they are talking about? I mean honestly, we can all google and wiki all day long but in the end no one really knows what they are talking about.




Are you stoned?




hes right

we aren't doctors

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11588079 - 12/05/09 01:25 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe you aren't but it's naive to say that everyone online lacks expertise in a particular area.  :shrug:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11588084 - 12/05/09 01:26 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The people who get all worked up about aspartame probably jump at their own shadows as well.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11588086 - 12/05/09 01:26 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

it would be doubly naive to assume that you could distinguish between the two

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11588091 - 12/05/09 01:27 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Maybe you aren't but it's naive to say that everyone online lacks expertise in a particular area.  :shrug:




yes but in the end nobody in this thread has proven to be an expert in this field

my guess is that this shit is very toxic and is killing people

the evidence I've seen thus far strongly suggests this

but I don't know 100%

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #11588093 - 12/05/09 01:28 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If someone provides logical justification with reputable studies then distinguishing between the expert and the bullshitter becomes very easy.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11588100 - 12/05/09 01:31 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
If someone provides logical justification with reputable studies then distinguishing between the expert and the bullshitter becomes very easy.




sometimes

some of the key studies that led to its approval were altered

I provided some evidence for that

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Gumby]
    #11588103 - 12/05/09 01:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gumby said:
Quote:

snoot said:
how many people actually know what they are talking about? I mean honestly, we can all google and wiki all day long but in the end no one really knows what they are talking about.




Are you stoned?





I was being sarcastic sorry. :cheer:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: snoot]
    #11588111 - 12/05/09 01:34 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I've never understood the attraction to drinking soda.  Give me water any day over that crap.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Jaegar]
    #11588121 - 12/05/09 01:38 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The spread of pseudoscience and its influence on peoples minds is a worrying trend.

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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11588129 - 12/05/09 01:40 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
The following studies were considered pivotal.

Entry No. FAMF 134                Title
E-5            An Evaluation of Embryotoxic and Teratogenic Potential in the Rat (SC-18862)
E-11            Two Generation Reproduction Study in Rats (SC-18862)
E-28            106 Week Oral Toxicity Dog Study (SC-18862)
E-32            52-WEEK ORAL TOXICITY IN THE INFANT MONKEY (SC-18862)
E-33            Appendix:  Two Year Toxicity Study in the Rat (SC-18862)
E-34            Two Year Toxicity Study in the Rat (SC-18862)
E-70            Lifetime Toxicity Study in the Rat (SC-18862)
E-75            104-Week Toxicity in the Mouse (SC-18862)
E-76            110-Week Toxicity Study in the Mouse (SC-19192)
E-77 & 78    115-Week Oral Tumorigenicity Study in the Rat (SC-19192)
E-86            A Supplemental Study of Dog Brains from a 106-Week Oral Toxicity Study (SC-18862)
E-87            A Supplemental Study of Rat Brains from Two Tumorigenicity Studies (SC-18862)
E-89            An Evaluation of Embryotoxic and Teratogenic Potential in the Mouse (SC-18862)
E-90            An Evaluation of Embryotoxic and Teratogenic Potential in the Rabbit (SC-18862)

�We also note there were other studies of interest in considering the safety review for aspartame approval.

Sincerely yours,
Rudolph Harris, Ph.D., Branch Chief
Novel Ingredients Branch, HFS-207
Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition�

So thus, we arrive at the plain admission by the FDA that they used E-5 and E89, the concealed faulty studies, to approve aspartame; Jerome Bressler said these were the worst ones.  � Pivotal� means studies from which data will be used to make significant claims; of vital or crucial importance. It doesn�t stop there.  Notice E-32 is a 52-week oral toxicity infant monkey study.  In this study 5 of 7 infant monkeys had grand mal seizures and 1 died.  http://www.dorway.com/raoreport.txt

E-32 is FDA ADMISSION that aspartame triggers seizures.  Yet they used it to approve the poison. FDA�s report of 92 aspartame symptoms from coma to death lists 4 types of seizures.  In 1986 Atty Jim Turner and the Community Nutrition Institute filed a Citizens Petition to ban aspartame because of seizures and blinding. FDA refused, even though they knew it for years.

Turner, who tried to stop approval said today: �Any rational interpretation of pivotal studies would have caused any reasonable individual to deny approval of aspartame.  Every scientist that looked at the pivotal studies said they don�t support safety of NutraSweet and did not support its approval.� Aspartame was approved through the political chicanery of Don Rumsfeld who was CEO of G. D. Searle and a member of President Reagan�s transition team (one of the ugliest, darkest chapters in the checkered history of the FDA).  Reagan appointed Arthur Hayes as FDA Commissioner  and fired FDA Commissioner Jere Goyan who was going to sign the petition revoking aspartame into law.  Reagan wrote an Executive Order making FDA powerless to sign that petition until Hayes arrived to kill it.  Obviously Hayes didn�t care what the pivotal studies showed.  In the movie, �Sweet Misery:  A Poisoned World�, Atty Turner explains what happened.  http://www.soundandfury.tv/pages/rumsfeld2.html

http://dorway.com/dorwblog/fda-hid-research-that-damned-aspartame/



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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11588158 - 12/05/09 01:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Over 20 years have elapsed since aspartame was approved by regulatory agencies as a sweetener and flavor enhancer. The safety of aspartame and its metabolic constituents was established through extensive toxicology studies in laboratory animals, using much greater doses than people could possibly consume. ...Several scientific issues continued to be raised after approval, largely as a concern for theoretical toxicity from its metabolic components — the amino acids, aspartate and phenylalanine, and methanol — even though dietary exposure to these components is much greater than from aspartame. Nonetheless, additional research, including evaluations of possible associations between aspartame and headaches, seizures, behavior, cognition, and mood as well as allergic-type reactions and use by potentially sensitive subpopulations, has continued after approval. ...The safety testing of aspartame has gone well beyond that required to evaluate the safety of a food additive. When all the research on aspartame is examined as a whole, it is clear that aspartame is safe, and there are no unresolved questions regarding its safety under conditions of intended use.

Edited by Jaegar (12/05/09 01:49 AM)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Jaegar]
    #11588163 - 12/05/09 01:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jaegar said:
Over 20 years have elapsed since aspartame was approved by regulatory agencies as a sweetener and flavor enhancer. The safety of aspartame and its metabolic constituents was established through extensive toxicology studies in laboratory animals, using much greater doses than people could possibly consume. ...Several scientific issues continued to be raised after approval, largely as a concern for theoretical toxicity from its metabolic components � the amino acids, aspartate and phenylalanine, and methanol � even though dietary exposure to these components is much greater than from aspartame. Nonetheless, additional research, including evaluations of possible associations between aspartame and headaches, seizures, behavior, cognition, and mood as well as allergic-type reactions and use by potentially sensitive subpopulations, has continued after approval. ...The safety testing of aspartame has gone well beyond that required to evaluate the safety of a food additive. When all the research on aspartame is examined as a whole, it is clear that aspartame is safe, and there are no unresolved questions regarding its safety under conditions of intended use.




like I said I don't know

but I suspect this is utter bullshit

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11588180 - 12/05/09 01:53 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
When the G.D. Searle Co. sought FDA approval for NutraSweet they submitted doctored, fraudulent "studies," so corrupt that the Department of Justice appointed two prosecutors to Investigate Searle. Searle's lawyers hired the prosecutors and the case died with the statute of limitations.

Listen in on aspartame hearings in 1976 between Senator Ted Kennedy and FDA Commissioner Alexander Schmidt at the Senate Subcommittee on Labor and Public Health:

Commissioner Schmidt: "Today I would like to report to you the final results of the Food and Drug Administration's detailed investigation of animal studies performed by Searle."

Senator Kennedy: "Is this the first time, to your knowledge, that such a problem has been uncovered of this magnitude by the Food and Drug Administration?"

Dr. Schmidt: "It is certainly the first time that such an extensive and detailed examination of this kind has taken place. We have never before conducted such an examination as we did at Searle. From time to time, we have been aware of isolated problems, but we were not aware of the extent of the problem in one pharmaceutical house."

Senator Kennedy: "The extensive nature of the almost unbelievable range of abuses discovered by the FDA on several major Searle products is profoundly disturbing."

http://www.mpwhi.com/fda_hid_research_that_damned_aspartame.htm



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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11588220 - 12/05/09 02:03 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
Furthermore, egulation and illegalization are entirely different issues. Do you realistically expect every citizen to be thoroughly educate themselves on any number of the thousands of chemicals that could be added to foods?




Every food should contain a label of all ingredients, but yes, I do expect the consumer to be responsible for choosing what foods to buy and which ingredients are harmful.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Gumby]
    #11588224 - 12/05/09 02:05 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
I don't get it. With the overwhelming evidence that aspartame is a known carcinogen amongst other things how is it that this scourge still frequents can's of soda etc?

If you don't know what I mean by overwhelming evidence you can start learning from this video (thanks go to wiccan-seeker's signature.)






Why make it illegal? Do you like to tell people what they can and can not consume? Maybe we should just let people make their own choices instead of making it for them.



Quote:

Gumby said:
Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
I don't get it. With the overwhelming evidence that aspartame is a known carcinogen amongst other things how is it that this scourge still frequents can's of soda etc?

If you don't know what I mean by overwhelming evidence you can start learning from this video (thanks go to wiccan-seeker's signature.)







In small amounts it's not a problem. It's not biocumulative so your body gets rid of it. The real risk is people who drink diet drinks all day long. It's especially dangerous when pregnant women consume a lot of aspartame, not good for a developing fetus at all.

Edit: you know what pisses me off? When people with no formal education in biochemistry or science in general suddenly think they're a brilliant messenger of god because a youtube video (which was also made by a person with no science background) said something is bad. If you don't know what you're talking about, S T F U !




Redstorm, there's one reason it should be examined closely for consideration in removal from the shelves.

Gumby, I'm sorry I was your excuse to have a bad day. It really makes me feel bad for you.:hi:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11589860 - 12/05/09 12:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

the jokes on you gumby, it was a :google: video!
:haha:


but in all seriousness, i already stated i don't know what i am talking about that i only can learn what other things teach me.
that's why when someone corrects me, i learn from it and move on.
no need to be harsh.

i am only a person and don't know everything.

i don't think the internet is a safe place to learn from, too many false info.
what ever conspiracy,propaganda and governments led out information.
for what we know, there are things we believe true but are false.
it's easy to lie, it's easy to hide things.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11593630 - 12/05/09 11:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

bradley said:
Furthermore, egulation and illegalization are entirely different issues. Do you realistically expect every citizen to be thoroughly educate themselves on any number of the thousands of chemicals that could be added to foods?




Every food should contain a label of all ingredients, but yes, I do expect the consumer to be responsible for choosing what foods to buy and which ingredients are harmful.




You expect them to? Why? Most people don't read ingredients, let alone research each one. I think that's a pretty insane expectation. Sure, I would "hope" that they would, but I know they do not and will not if regulation drops.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11593643 - 12/05/09 11:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The lack of concern of other people for their own well-being is not my problem.  Let natural selection work things out.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11593742 - 12/06/09 12:01 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I've never understood the attraction to drinking soda.  Give me water any day over that crap.




the indulgence of sweets is perplexing to you?


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: snoot]
    #11593771 - 12/06/09 12:07 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I just don't feel that my thirst has been properly quenched after drinking soda as compared to a glass of cool ice-water.  Obviously the sugar content is what hooks soda drinkers though.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: snoot]
    #11594091 - 12/06/09 01:46 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, I love some of the responses. Some of you really are showing your true colors! Keep it coming boys and girls! :grin: This is better than Jerry Springer!! :lol:

:lolsy::curbyourenthusiasm::gethigh:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11595552 - 12/06/09 11:42 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It's not practical man. It takes a long time to research a substance, and there's constantly new potential preservatives or additives that the food industry would like to utilize. Might be a full time job to keep on top of everything.

Not everyone has time and money to buy pure ingredients and make their own meals from scratch, so maybe people who buy a frozen burrito or box of crackers aren't necessarily Darwinian throwaways - it might be a bit too many. People are even conveniently citing studies that have taken place on substances, thanks to regulation.

Regulation of substances in the food supply doesn't mean you can't go buy rat poison if you so choose (and use it in your own personal recipes), it just means it won't be in your TV dinner or soup du jour. What's the big problem with that?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11595579 - 12/06/09 11:47 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The issue comes down to my freedom as a business owner.  If I want to sell a soda that contains aspartame, and someone else wants to buy my soda knowing that it contains aspartame, what's the problem?  The government should not prevent consensual contracts from taking place; people do not need protection from their own decisions.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? *DELETED* [Re: deCypher]
    #11595597 - 12/06/09 11:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by dr_gonz

Reason for deletion: f

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: dr_gonz]
    #11595614 - 12/06/09 11:53 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If I want to sell methamphetamine and someone else wants to buy my methamphetamine, what's the problem?  All consensual buying, selling and possession of drugs should be legal.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #11595810 - 12/06/09 12:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think that you should post something that refutes these statements if you can find it.

that way people can judge for themselves. you dont necessarily have to agree with it but sometimes it makes more sense to believe this sort of thing if you have a counter argument and you can find reasons that impeaches the pro aspartame side from the pro aspartame side


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11596101 - 12/06/09 01:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
The issue comes down to my freedom as a business owner.  If I want to sell a soda that contains aspartame, and someone else wants to buy my soda knowing that it contains aspartame, what's the problem?  The government should not prevent consensual contracts from taking place; people do not need protection from their own decisions.





The effects of aspartame are well known, mostly due to studies to get it through the regulation process. Not only would we lack scientific studies on the multitude of substances that would enter our food, but even if we did, it would be hard to keep on top of everything. The widely believed misinformation on aspartame, even by people who are statistical outliers in terms of how much they have looked into the substance and believe they are "in the know", is evidence that the average person cannot satisfactorily educate himself on the hundreds of possible food additives.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11596140 - 12/06/09 01:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I'm sorry, I don't believe in restricting my freedoms of commerce just because someone doesn't want to research what they're putting in their mouth.  By your logic we should probably ban all fast food and cigarettes because they're harmful to consumers too, right?

I do agree with you that most people do not satisfactorily educate themselves on food additives.  That's their loss, not mine, and I'd rather be responsible for my own health than enact more restrictive laws that turn this government into a nanny state.  Banning products for the protection of the people solves nothing; education and personal responsibility are the way to go.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11596192 - 12/06/09 01:35 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
The issue comes down to my freedom as a business owner.  If I want to sell a soda that contains aspartame, and someone else wants to buy my soda knowing that it contains aspartame, what's the problem?  The government should not prevent consensual contracts from taking place; people do not need protection from their own decisions.





The effects of aspartame are well known, mostly due to studies to get it through the regulation process. Not only would we lack scientific studies on the multitude of substances that would enter our food, but even if we did, it would be hard to keep on top of everything. The widely believed misinformation on aspartame, even by people who are statistical outliers in terms of how much they have looked into the substance and believe they are "in the know", is evidence that the average person cannot satisfactorily educate himself on the hundreds of possible food additives.




See, here's the problem with your argument: You think that people should be entitled to eat substances they can't even pronounce (and of course have no idea what the fuck it does) while being protected from the consequences.  Could you explain how that makes sense?

Imagine this scenario: You're at your local taco stand when you see the tacquerista behind the counter drop a few drops of something out of an eyedropper into your taco.  You ask what's in the eyedropper, and they rattle off some long confusing sounding spanish name for it. Do you: (a) eat the taco, or (b) go to another taco stand that doesn't use ingredients you can neither pronounce or speak to the relative safety of?

And if you'd pick the latter, why do you feel everyone else should be legally barred from picking the former option?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11596211 - 12/06/09 01:39 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
education and personal responsibility are the way to go.




QFT...sad really that this isn't the case...

And it's not nearly as hard...there is no need for laborious research on the side of the consumer.They need to have a bit of trust in the agencies paid to research this substances and to approve them and approach foods and beverages with additives with caution.Why the fuck do people complain about aspartame while still drinking lots of soda is beyond me...it is a known fact that soda is not healthy for you...:shrug:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11596250 - 12/06/09 01:45 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Decypher: I draw a line between teratogens and other food additives because they affect future consensual contracts.  I'm not saying they ought to be outright illegal, but they should be regulated. And among those regulations should be the requirement that anyone consuming a known teratogen be aware of its teratogenic potential. If they aren't aware, then this prevents any and all future mates from entering into a fully-informed relationship with the consumer of the teratogen.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11596270 - 12/06/09 01:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

What's interesting is the counter argument that the personal choices of an individual can negatively affect the society around them, though.  I will eventually be paying for the hospital stays of tobacco smokers and fast food eaters, for example, not to mention the cost in suffering of these individuals' friends and families upon seeing their loved one die of self-inflicted lung cancer, heart attack, or stroke.  We say that we should be allowed to make stupid decisions, but we are not completely isolated from the rest of society and our decisions do sometimes detrimentally impact the lives of others.

Food for thought, at any rate.  I'd suggest abolishing healthcare where I'm forced to pay for the poor lifestyle choices of other people.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11596323 - 12/06/09 01:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
And among those regulations should be the requirement that anyone consuming a known teratogen be aware of its teratogenic potential.  If they aren't aware, then this prevents any and all future mates from entering into a fully-informed relationship with the consumer of the teratogen.




Sure, I'd be fine with that.  I only have a problem with people trying to put me in prison when I'm only harming myself with my actions.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11596581 - 12/06/09 02:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah,but that's the thing with living in a community...you have to take the good with the bad...of course there are going to be people who benefit from it more then others, without even being aware of it,but we are here to help each other out even if we'd like to forget about it or if other people make us ashamed for it.We just have to do our part in it and try to better the community however we can.This being said it would be only logical to add some kind of tax to items such as fast-food and tobacco that goes directly to the health-care system to pay for the damage such a lifestyle does.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11596614 - 12/06/09 02:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

They already tax the fuck outta tobacco for that. If they need more public health care money, a small tax on fast food and soda would go a long way

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11596842 - 12/06/09 03:08 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, why is there not a huge tax on soda?  It's completely void of any nutrition and extremely detrimental to your health.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: sirdonut]
    #11596850 - 12/06/09 03:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yea lets just tax the fuck out of everything we don't like!!! Sounds like an awesome idea. More money for weapons! :rolleyes:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11596872 - 12/06/09 03:12 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It's not that bad...it just ain't good...a small tax would indeed go a long way,also just selling it in small containers would be a good idea...so maybe banning everything over a liter would be a smart.It's tasty but there is really no need to drink liters of the stuff.


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OfflineTangerines
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11596882 - 12/06/09 03:14 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It's not like taxing it would guarantee the money would go towards health care...

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Tangerines]
    #11596884 - 12/06/09 03:14 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not saying to tax soda because I don't like it. I'm saying to tax soda to help equitably distribute health care costs. I don't have a problem with taxing tobacco to cover the healthcare costs of smokers (though truthfully it seems you'd save money since less smokers survive into their nineties, clinging to life and racking up medical bills left and right as their body slowly shuts down)... but tobacco shouldn't be the only thing being taxed in this way. That's discrimination.  Other major contributing factors to healthcare costs ought to be taxed similarly if tobacco is. And frankly, it doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, since it places a larger amount of the burden of healthcare costs on the groups who are disproportionately apt to incur the increased cost.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Tangerines]
    #11596887 - 12/06/09 03:15 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tangerines said:
It's not like taxing it would guarantee the money would go towards health care...



Yup, there's no guarentee at all... unless it's written into the legislation :foreheadslap:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11596903 - 12/06/09 03:17 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Even if it was written in the bill I would not believe it.  It just takes some sneaky 'legal' embezzlement.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11596905 - 12/06/09 03:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

13.step said:
so maybe banning everything over a liter would be a smart.




No.

What the hell is with all these shroomerites wanting to make shit illegal?

Once and for all:
Prohibition is not, has never been, and will never be a viable model in any society that gives a rats ass about civil rights

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11596916 - 12/06/09 03:20 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Are you pissed trans fat is going to be illegal in restaurants in Cali?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11596959 - 12/06/09 03:26 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

My head hurts...

It's not like banning soda,maybe I worded it a bit awkwardly,sorry but my English is a bit rusty.It's more like regulating it,you'd still have what you wanted and be able to get it anytime you wanted it it just would be in a way that would be harder to consume large quantities of.That's what I am doing,I stopped buying 2 liter bottles of coke and Pepsi and just buy a small can of it whenever i want a taste,my stomach thanks me.

I am not for banning anything but i don't consider limiting the amount you can buy soda in to be prohibition in any form.Anyway...it's just what works for me.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11596969 - 12/06/09 03:28 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Limiting peoples supply of soda directly interferes with their personal freedoms. I am not down with that.  They may as well limit cigarettes to one pack a week per person according to you.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Tangerines]
    #11596972 - 12/06/09 03:28 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tangerines said:
Are you pissed trans fat is going to be illegal in restaurants in Cali?



Obviously. It's fucking absurd that people are denied the choice of eating trans-fats.

I'm all for proper labelling, having menus indicate which dishes include trans-fats. But to outright ban them is bass-akwards and asinine.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11596980 - 12/06/09 03:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

13.step said:
so maybe banning everything over a liter would be a smart.




No.

What the hell is with all these shroomerites wanting to make shit illegal?

Once and for all:
Prohibition is not, has never been, and will never be a viable model in any society that gives a rats ass about civil rights





this thread is retarded

Prohibition is not a viable model to control things which people desire like drugs

If you banned aspartame do you think a black market for it would spring up? No

Anyway the above point is moot since aspartame is a harmless additive,:tongue2:

you guys should be far more worried about your tobacco, alcohol and car exhaust fume intake than your aspartame intake :rolleyes:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11596985 - 12/06/09 03:30 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I agree.  I can see the banning in regards to THE GREATER HEALTH OF THE PEOPLE, but I still do not agree with it as it is just another right they are stripping away from us.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11596995 - 12/06/09 03:32 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Why make it illegal? Do you like to tell people what they can and can not consume? Maybe we should just let people make their own choices instead of making it for them.




Seriously.  Its sad how many people on the shroomery jump on the bandwagon in favor of banning things and expanding prohibition when its something they dont like to do.  Hypocrites who would gleefully infringe on my rights.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Tangerines]
    #11597000 - 12/06/09 03:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Dude,chill and go back and read my post.I never said anything about limiting the amount of soda per person,sorry if it got out like that,as i said my english is not that good.What I said was to limit the size of the recipients it comes in so as to make drinking tons of it a bit harder.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11597004 - 12/06/09 03:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It is very funny how similar so many shroomerites are to the people they claim to 'hate' for infringing on the basic drug user's rights.  Ahhh reflection is a bitch.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11597005 - 12/06/09 03:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

Tangerines said:
Are you pissed trans fat is going to be illegal in restaurants in Cali?



Obviously. It's fucking absurd that people are denied the choice of eating trans-fats.

I'm all for proper labelling, having menus indicate which dishes include trans-fats. But to outright ban them is bass-akwards and asinine.




I see I need not have chimed in since the intelligent people are already making the case.  Its good that not everyone jumps on naive emotionally driven 'ban what I dont like' bandwagon.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11597022 - 12/06/09 03:36 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

13.step said:
Dude,chill and go back and read my post.I never said anything about limiting the amount of soda per person,sorry if it got out like that,as i said my english is not that good.What I said was to limit the size of the recipients it comes in so as to make drinking tons of it a bit harder.





So people could buy 48 cans of 6 oz soda instead of 24 cans of 12 oz soda?  ahh I see it makes complete sense now.

We should sell cigarettes in packs of 10 so that people don't smoke as much.  Oh wait...they will just buy more packs of cigarettes as they will cans of soda.

Your logic is terribly flawed unless something was lost in you translating into English.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Tangerines]
    #11597110 - 12/06/09 03:46 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It only works when the differences in volume are bigger,like between a 2,5 liter bottle and a 0,33 or 0,5 liter.And yeah,you're right it isn't the brightest idea I've had...it's just that I find it a bit overkill to have bottles of soda so big,or even be served at a fast food  with those big-ass cups of soda.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11597121 - 12/06/09 03:47 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Why do you find it overkill?  Per unit volume, a 2 liter bottle is cheaper than a smaller .5 liter bottle.  It does not mean you have to drink it quicker.  It is simply more economical.  Have some self control and it shouldn't be a problem.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: 13.step]
    #11597183 - 12/06/09 03:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah...but the self-control is the problem...if i have it there i will drink it quicker and so are i belive the majority of people going to do,so for me this is the solution,i buy the smaller cans when i want some even if it's not that economical.

But yeah,you guys are right...this was a stupid idea...no way can this be a solution,well not until the start making the 5 liter soda-bottle.:lol:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11598771 - 12/06/09 07:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

bradley said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
The issue comes down to my freedom as a business owner.  If I want to sell a soda that contains aspartame, and someone else wants to buy my soda knowing that it contains aspartame, what's the problem?  The government should not prevent consensual contracts from taking place; people do not need protection from their own decisions.





The effects of aspartame are well known, mostly due to studies to get it through the regulation process. Not only would we lack scientific studies on the multitude of substances that would enter our food, but even if we did, it would be hard to keep on top of everything. The widely believed misinformation on aspartame, even by people who are statistical outliers in terms of how much they have looked into the substance and believe they are "in the know", is evidence that the average person cannot satisfactorily educate himself on the hundreds of possible food additives.




See, here's the problem with your argument: You think that people should be entitled to eat substances they can't even pronounce (and of course have no idea what the fuck it does) while being protected from the consequences.  Could you explain how that makes sense?

Imagine this scenario: You're at your local taco stand when you see the tacquerista behind the counter drop a few drops of something out of an eyedropper into your taco.  You ask what's in the eyedropper, and they rattle off some long confusing sounding spanish name for it. Do you: (a) eat the taco, or (b) go to another taco stand that doesn't use ingredients you can neither pronounce or speak to the relative safety of?

And if you'd pick the latter, why do you feel everyone else should be legally barred from picking the former option?




Well, it is easier to argue your point when you create an imaginary scenario that doesn't represent reality. Imagine this scenario:

Hundreds of millions of people depend on packaged food or pre-made meals that often contain additives. Pick any one up, and it is likely to contain an ingredient you can't pronounce.

If the addition of a substance to a food was a rare and conspicuous act, your example would be poignant. But it isn't; additives are ubiquitous. The taco stand next block over has already had 20 drops of whatever added into the cornmeal for the taco shell.

How horrible is it to know those drops have been studied and deemed relatively safe?

Decypher, as far as freedom as a business owner goes, you do not have an immutable right to fuck people up. Sorry. What business do you have adding a substance to a drink if you are not going to first have someone extensively study it and certify it's safety?

As for the appeal to "emotional hypocrisy" or whatever some of you have been spitting out, I'm seeing it more of it on your end. Do you think I have some emotional tie or vested interested in regulation? It's just logic. I think the food industry would probably go to hell if it went unregulated, but it isn't like I have a passion for this issue. The only thing I am pissed about is so much inflexibility and resistance to even thinking about the pros and cons. It's like everyone throws up their arms in emotional panic when their little ideology of freely-flowing drugs is somehow threatened, even if only by association.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11598908 - 12/06/09 08:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

mayby not enough people say anything about aspartame, so it stays

you should all write letters to obama, or your respective lords

Edited by hidenseek (12/06/09 08:06 PM)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: P-O]
    #11598951 - 12/06/09 08:12 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PostiveOutlook said:
the drug companies love cancer and sick people!:mad2:




sad but true.

it's now also in gum that isn't sugar-free. WHY is there sugar AND sugar "substitute" in the same product ? nothing makes sense, ever.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11598977 - 12/06/09 08:15 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Your scenario is identical to mine.
Quote:

bradley said:
Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

bradley said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
The issue comes down to my freedom as a business owner.  If I want to sell a soda that contains aspartame, and someone else wants to buy my soda knowing that it contains aspartame, what's the problem?  The government should not prevent consensual contracts from taking place; people do not need protection from their own decisions.





The effects of aspartame are well known, mostly due to studies to get it through the regulation process. Not only would we lack scientific studies on the multitude of substances that would enter our food, but even if we did, it would be hard to keep on top of everything. The widely believed misinformation on aspartame, even by people who are statistical outliers in terms of how much they have looked into the substance and believe they are "in the know", is evidence that the average person cannot satisfactorily educate himself on the hundreds of possible food additives.




See, here's the problem with your argument: You think that people should be entitled to eat substances they can't even pronounce (and of course have no idea what the fuck it does) while being protected from the consequences.  Could you explain how that makes sense?

Imagine this scenario: You're at your local taco stand when you see the tacquerista behind the counter drop a few drops of something out of an eyedropper into your taco.  You ask what's in the eyedropper, and they rattle off some long confusing sounding spanish name for it. Do you: (a) eat the taco, or (b) go to another taco stand that doesn't use ingredients you can neither pronounce or speak to the relative safety of?

And if you'd pick the latter, why do you feel everyone else should be legally barred from picking the former option?




Well, it is easier to argue your point when you create an imaginary scenario that doesn't represent reality. Imagine this scenario:

Hundreds of millions of people depend on packaged food or pre-made meals that often contain additives. Pick any one up, and it is likely to contain an ingredient you can't pronounce.



1.) The situation is identical, you've simply depersonalized it.
2.) As a chemistry major, I can generally pronounce all that gobbledygook.
3.) People don't depend on packaged foods. People choose to consume them. As long as people are choosing to consume the products, they should be free to make informed decisions or uninformed decisions about which to consume. That's their prerogative.

Quote:

If the addition of a substance to a food was a rare and conspicuous act, your example would be poignant. But it isn't; additives are ubiquitous.



So all those chemicals listed on the back of every package aren't conspicuous enough for you? :confused:

Quote:

The taco stand next block over has already had 20 drops of whatever added into the cornmeal for the taco shell.



And I fully support that they be required to label their food products as such. That's kind of implicit in allowing the consumer to make an informed decision (or not, as the consumer sees fit).

Quote:

How horrible is it to know those drops have been studied and deemed relatively safe?



It's not. That's precisely the point. You have every right to examine the health safety data for food additives, and make your decision accordingly. You also have every right not to be aware of the data and make decisions out of ignorance.

The fact is, not everyone is going to agree with the FDA's decisions.  Some may find the data inconclusive, or be more concerned about warning signs that were officially deemed insignificant. Forcing the FDA's (sometimes-biased) conclusions on the entire population by means of legal sanctions simply does not strike me as ethical.

Quote:

As far as freedom as a business owner goes, you do not have an immutable right to fuck people up. Sorry.



Of course you don't. If you force your product on a customer, that's illegal (and a bit absurd... imagine if mcdonalds forced you to buy burgers!).  But you do have the immutable right to enter into consensual agreements with your customers to whatever extent that it does not harm anyone besides the consenting parties.

Quote:

What business do you have adding a substance to a drink if you are not going to first have someone extensively study it and certify it's safety?



What business do you have banning him from doing so? I think a reasonable degree of regulation would be to require that any product containing an additive for which there's little or no data should be marked as such on the packaging.  If people are aware they're consuming an untested material and choose to do so anyway, what's the problem? (Be careful how you answer, unless you believe RCs should be illegal as well)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11599045 - 12/06/09 08:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

This thread is hilarious. A bunch of drug users advocating the prohibition of a drug! :lol:

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Offlinefuture primitive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11599066 - 12/06/09 08:26 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

what business? it's HARMFUL. it causes brain lesions. it also causes
   
* Multiple sclerosis (MS)
* ALS
* Memory loss
* Hormonal problems
* Hearing loss
* Epilepsy
* Alzheimer's disease
* Parkinson's disease
* Hypoglycemia
* AIDS
* Dementia
* Brain lesions (again)
* Neuroendocrine disorders

http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/dangers.htm

it's a substance, but I wouldn't call it a drug.

there is no reason why msg should be in everything either.

http://www.rense.com/general33/legal.htm

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11599098 - 12/06/09 08:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said:

there is no reason why msg should be in everything either.





luckily, its not, as i make food every single day that totally lacks it, and have no problem doing so.

peace

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11599111 - 12/06/09 08:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said:
what business? it's HARMFUL. it causes brain lesions. it also causes
   
* Multiple sclerosis (MS)
* ALS
* Memory loss
* Hormonal problems
* Hearing loss
* Epilepsy
* Alzheimer's disease
* Parkinson's disease
* Hypoglycemia
* AIDS
* Dementia
* Brain lesions (again)
* Neuroendocrine disorders

http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/dangers.htm



No one's forcing you to eat it though. You can choose not to.  Why should your personal decisions be forced on the entire population? What justifies prohibiting other people from making their own decisions about what to put in their bodies?



Quote:

there is no reason why msg should be in everything either.




Come on now, that's a no-brainer: It makes things taste good :flowstone:

Also, the only way to avoid MSG is to be vegetarian. Most meat contains MSG. Not as an additive, but as a natural component. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Unless you think we should all be legally required to be vegetarian too?

Personally I use fly agaric mushrooms instead of MSG in marinades if I have any of the mushrooms on-hand, but I have no problem with MSG if I have no fly agarics.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11599120 - 12/06/09 08:35 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

As far as freedom as a business owner goes, you do not have an immutable right to fuck people up. Sorry.



Of course you don't. If you force your product on a customer, that's illegal (and a bit absurd... imagine if mcdonalds forced you to buy burgers!).  But you do have the immutable right to enter into consensual agreements with your customers to whatever extent that it does not harm anyone besides the consenting parties.




Yep.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11599126 - 12/06/09 08:36 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Bunch of ban happy sissies I tell you what. :nonono:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Tangerines]
    #11599128 - 12/06/09 08:36 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tangerines said:
It is very funny how similar so many shroomerites are to the people they claim to 'hate' for infringing on the basic drug user's rights.  Ahhh reflection is a bitch.





most people do not eat aspartame because they like it

most people drink it cause they think its better for them

the tv has been telling them for years

if people knew the truth they would not eat the shit

no one is going to fight for the legalization of a poisonous chemical and MANY poisonous chemicals are banned to be sold in food and no one has a problem with that

by your logic we should be able to sell hamburgers with cyanide seasoning

and if you don't read the label and figure out its got cyanide in it

thats your own fault, nobody forced you to buy the toxic burger :smirk:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599149 - 12/06/09 08:39 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think cyanide burgers is a great idea because I am all for assisted suicide.  I believe a cyanide burger joint with a funeral home attached to it is a glorious idea.  That way people who want to commit suicide can do so without creating much of a mess and the funeral home is right there so it's the most inexpensive means to the ultimate end.

And your reasoning is dumb anyways.  Just because people choose NOT to study what they are putting in their body is no excuse.  All the resources are available for people to make an informed decision.  Their choosing otherwise is their own downfall.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599154 - 12/06/09 08:39 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
by your logic we should be able to sell hamburgers with cyanide seasoning

and if you don't read the label and figure out its got cyanide in it

thats your own fault, nobody forced you to buy the toxic burger :smirk:




Yep, I should be allowed to sell hamburgers with cyanide seasoning, just like you should be allowed to eat them if you're dumb enough not to read the label.  :smirk:

Personal responsibility's a bitch, ain't it?


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599155 - 12/06/09 08:40 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
Quote:

Tangerines said:
It is very funny how similar so many shroomerites are to the people they claim to 'hate' for infringing on the basic drug user's rights.  Ahhh reflection is a bitch.





most people do not eat aspartame because they like it

most people drink it cause they think its better for them

the tv has been telling them for years

if people knew the truth they would not eat the shit

no one is going to fight for the legalization of a poisonous chemical and MANY poisonous chemicals are banned to be sold in food and no one has a problem with that

by your logic we should be able to sell hamburgers with cyanide seasoning

and if you don't read the label and figure out its got cyanide in it

thats your own fault, nobody forced you to buy the toxic burger :smirk:




nobody did, if someone is allergic to peanuts, to the point where its just as toxic as cyanide, is it not their fault for eating the product if it kills them?  Even when its clearly marked on the packaging?  Also, its just a teeny bit ridiculous to say that, aspartame != cyanide, no matter how much you want it to.

Regardless, i watch the tv sometimes, and i have NEVER ONCE been told that aspertame is better for me, in fact, I avoid all artificial sweetners just because sugar works just fine for me, and i don't consume mass amounts of unhealthy food, so have no need to cut down on calories by cutting out natural sugar...

peace

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OfflineLife Upon Death
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Tangerines]
    #11599163 - 12/06/09 08:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tangerines said:
I think cyanide burgers is a great idea because I am all for assisted suicide.  I believe a cyanide burger joint with a funeral home attached to it is a glorious idea.  That way people who want to commit suicide can do so without creating much of a mess and the funeral home is right there so it's the most inexpensive means to the ultimate end.

And your reasoning is dumb anyways.  Just because people choose NOT to study what they are putting in their body is no excuse.  All the resources are available for people to make an informed decision.  Their choosing otherwise is their own downfall.




what if the word cyanide is in small print on the side of the label with no clear indication of it being toxic

thats not assisted suicide, its murder

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Tangerines]
    #11599168 - 12/06/09 08:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think a hairon burger joint would be :awesome:er for assisted suicide. Go for a triple cheeseburger if you're looking to check out for good, or just a 1/4-pounder if you're looking for a nod :yesnod:

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Offlinefuture primitive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: supra]
    #11599171 - 12/06/09 08:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

believe me, so do I. food is a big deal to me. I'm just saying in general. a lot of people don't make their own salad dressing for example, and don't know that there is msg in it. it is. it's in everything.. that has a flavor anyway, because it's being called an inexpensive "flavor enhancer". MSG is a neurotoxin, potentially toxic to everyone. and it's in THOUSANDS of products. there's something wrong with th
Quote:

supra said:
Quote:

future primitive said:

there is no reason why msg should be in everything either.





luckily, its not, as i make food every single day that totally lacks it, and have no problem doing so.

peace




believe me, so do I. food is a big deal to me. I'm just saying in general. a lot of people don't make their own salad dressing for example, and don't know that there is msg in it. it is. it's in everything.. that has a flavor anyway, because it's being called an inexpensive "flavor enhancer". MSG is a neurotoxin, potentially toxic to everyone. and it's in THOUSANDS of products. there's something wrong with that.

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/Dang.html

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11599174 - 12/06/09 08:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
by your logic we should be able to sell hamburgers with cyanide seasoning

and if you don't read the label and figure out its got cyanide in it

thats your own fault, nobody forced you to buy the toxic burger :smirk:




Yep, I should be allowed to sell hamburgers with cyanide seasoning, just like you should be allowed to eat them if you're dumb enough not to read the label.  :smirk:

Personal responsibility's a bitch, ain't it?




whats even better, is this is the same quack who is ultra paranoid of the govt. controlling him, yet he is here asking for the govt to control what is and isn't sold, for his safety...though he will completely fail to see his own hypocrisy...

peace

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599181 - 12/06/09 08:43 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

you guys are so full of shit

aspartame is sold because sugar makes us fat artificially flavoured products are often labeled "light" "low on calories"

its sold as the healthy alternative to sugar

and don't even try to dispute that because its just common sense

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599186 - 12/06/09 08:44 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
what if the word cyanide is in small print on the side of the label with no clear indication of it being toxic

thats not assisted suicide, its murder




Meh, so require warning labels on products that contain potentially toxic ingredients if you're that concerned about ignorant people who don't bother researching what they're putting in their mouth.  I should still be allowed to buy and sell these products if I want to.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: supra]
    #11599190 - 12/06/09 08:44 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

supra said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
by your logic we should be able to sell hamburgers with cyanide seasoning

and if you don't read the label and figure out its got cyanide in it

thats your own fault, nobody forced you to buy the toxic burger :smirk:




Yep, I should be allowed to sell hamburgers with cyanide seasoning, just like you should be allowed to eat them if you're dumb enough not to read the label.  :smirk:

Personal responsibility's a bitch, ain't it?




whats even better, is this is the same quack who is ultra paranoid of the govt. controlling him, yet he is here asking for the govt to control what is and isn't sold, for his safety...though he will completely fail to see his own hypocrisy...

peace




why would I have a problem with the government assuring the sale of only healthy food?

they don't, but why would I have a problem with that kinda authority?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11599192 - 12/06/09 08:45 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said:
MSG is a neurotoxin, potentially toxic to everyone.



I guess that's why humans have avoided eating meat for thousands of years..... Er, wait, what? :what:

Quote:

and it's in THOUSANDS of products. there's something wrong with that.



Is it on the list of ingredients? If so, please elaborate on what exactly is wrong with that.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11599198 - 12/06/09 08:45 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
what if the word cyanide is in small print on the side of the label with no clear indication of it being toxic

thats not assisted suicide, its murder




Meh, so require warning labels on products that contain potentially toxic ingredients if you're that concerned about ignorant people who don't bother researching what they're putting in their mouth.  I should still be allowed to buy and sell these products if I want to.




ya and I should be able to beat you into a coma cause I walk around with a warning sign around my neck "if your reading this its too late"

:lol:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: supra]
    #11599206 - 12/06/09 08:46 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

supra said:
whats even better, is this is the same quack who is ultra paranoid of the govt. controlling him, yet he is here asking for the govt to control what is and isn't sold, for his safety...though he will completely fail to see his own hypocrisy...




If you make a youtube video about it he would :hehehe:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599208 - 12/06/09 08:47 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

:dudewtf: :lol:

I'm against any kind of coerced harm.  Knowingly buying a product that specifies it contains toxic ingredients is anything but coerced.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599222 - 12/06/09 08:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
what if the word cyanide is in small print on the side of the label with no clear indication of it being toxic

thats not assisted suicide, its murder




Meh, so require warning labels on products that contain potentially toxic ingredients if you're that concerned about ignorant people who don't bother researching what they're putting in their mouth.  I should still be allowed to buy and sell these products if I want to.




ya and I should be able to beat you into a coma cause I walk around with a warning sign around my neck "if your reading this its too late"

:lol:




so should we remove every kind of food from sale that anyone has an allergy to?  As this is most definitely detrimental to their health, and, by your logic, it is being forced upon all of them...

peace

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: supra]
    #11599243 - 12/06/09 08:52 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

supra said:
Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
what if the word cyanide is in small print on the side of the label with no clear indication of it being toxic

thats not assisted suicide, its murder




Meh, so require warning labels on products that contain potentially toxic ingredients if you're that concerned about ignorant people who don't bother researching what they're putting in their mouth.  I should still be allowed to buy and sell these products if I want to.




ya and I should be able to beat you into a coma cause I walk around with a warning sign around my neck "if your reading this its too late"

:lol:




so should we remove every kind of food from sale that anyone has an allergy to?  As this is most definitely detrimental to their health, and, by your logic, it is being forced upon all of them...

peace




selling a food that has allergic reaction potential is not the same as selling a proven to be poisonous chemical after doctoring study results and telling everyone is help them lose weight

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599251 - 12/06/09 08:53 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

if people were honest about what they are selling, then poisonous chemicals would not be in food because people wouldn't buy it

thats the way the system SHOULD work but people are greedy fucking liars so that ain't gonna happen

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11599255 - 12/06/09 08:54 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
:dudewtf: :lol:

I'm against any kind of coerced harm.  Knowingly buying a product that specifies it contains toxic ingredients is anything but coerced.




not when the public is known to be uneducated

you act as if this isn't malicious and wrong

no dice dude, no fucking dice

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599272 - 12/06/09 08:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

pretty sure asking the gov won't help, they approved it in the first place. obviously that isn't the solution.

it shouldn't be in anything called FOOD. period. if you're opinion is otherwise, it probably isn't based on anything that important, and you're probably a complete psycho.

yes, people are stupid. but do we really need to make it worse by attacking their brains with harmful chemicals by putting it in their FOOD? apparently the gov thinks YES.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11599286 - 12/06/09 09:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

There's a difference between attacking people and allowing people to attack themselves

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599287 - 12/06/09 09:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
if people were honest about what they are selling, then poisonous chemicals would not be in food because people wouldn't buy it




Exactly; a hamburger stand that sold cyanide with their burgers would quickly go out of business.  My point, however, is that if I want to purchase a hamburger with cyanide I should be able to; don't put me in prison for it.

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
not when the public is known to be uneducated

you act as if this isn't malicious and wrong

no dice dude, no fucking dice




Being ignorant and deciding to eat something when you could clearly look up that an ingredient is toxic is called being stupid, not being coerced.  I'm not pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to eat it; it's your decision to, plain and simple.  What's malicious and wrong is preventing two parties from undergoing a consensual business transaction that harms nobody else.

For all I know aspartame rots off your testicles; if it does then we should have verifiable studies that the public can look up that show this.  Still, if I want to buy food that has aspartame in it then I should be able to.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11599292 - 12/06/09 09:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said:
pretty sure asking the gov won't help, they approved it in the first place. obviously that isn't the solution.

it shouldn't be in anything called FOOD. period. if you're opinion is otherwise, it probably isn't based on anything that important, and you're probably a complete psycho.

yes, people are stupid. but do we really need to make it worse by attacking their brains with harmful chemicals by putting it in their FOOD? apparently the gov thinks YES.




its already expected that the new director(or whatever title) of the FDA is planning to ban it when she takes her position

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11599324 - 12/06/09 09:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
There's a difference between attacking people and allowing people to attack themselves




then the government should fess up to what aspartame really is and its risks

with a widespread campaign of truth

it should contain a warning on the box, CLEARLY visible

like one of those hazard signs lol

they should even start putting little messages with horrible pictures of what can happen if you continue to use the product lol

if people want it that bad even after all that then they have that right

I just don't think anyones gonna want it anymore if they have the facts

thats why I'd support the ban

it would put a halt to production of something thats hurting people and I doubt anyone will give a shit

they will probably praise them for doing so

people should be told the facts and then be able to decide whats best for their country

thats what democracy is all about right?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11599330 - 12/06/09 09:06 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said:
pretty sure asking the gov won't help, they approved it in the first place. obviously that isn't the solution.

it shouldn't be in anything called FOOD. period. if you're opinion is otherwise, it probably isn't based on anything that important, and you're probably a complete psycho.

yes, people are stupid. but do we really need to make it worse by attacking their brains with harmful chemicals by putting it in their FOOD? apparently the gov thinks YES.




so you want to attack people directly by calling them names and saying they don't base anything they say on anything important because they do not agree with you?...from what i can see, the only argument in here against the people crusading against aspartame is personal freedom...are you saying personal freedom is not important, and those that value it are stupid?

peace

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599344 - 12/06/09 09:08 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
if people want it that bad even after all that then they have that right

I just don't think anyones gonna want it anymore if they have the facts




Agreed and agreed.

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
thats why I'd support the ban




:facepalm:

A ban of aspartame may save lives but it also sacrifices our freedoms.  I'll take liberty over a governmentally-enforced nanny state any day.  Hell, why don't you also ban cars since millions of car accidents kill people every year?  You'd be saving lives, right?


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599351 - 12/06/09 09:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:


if people want it that bad even after all that then they have that right






so now you are the granter of other peoples rights?  That is laughable....

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:

people should be told the facts and then be able to decide whats best for their country

thats what democracy is all about right?




So since YOU apparently know all the facts about it, as well as a few others here, nobody else is allowed to?  I miss the point where the facts are so hidden and lies spewed about, yet you are so privy to the knowledge of the truth that nobody else knows.

peace

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599367 - 12/06/09 09:12 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I could drink anti-freeze if I Really wanted too

but I don't because I've learned early that its very dangerous and it comes with a warning right on the damn bottle

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599373 - 12/06/09 09:13 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

it's in FOOD for fucks sakes. it's HARDLY the same thing.

yes, I truly believe that if you want to eat rat poison, you should ! please do in fact. it shouldn't be in food though. food that is annoyingly and repetitively advertised as "good for you!!" xD give me a fucking break. people are easily fooled, yes. but this shit is just evil. if that's what you're into, fine. but just fucking ADMIT it.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599376 - 12/06/09 09:14 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

why do I even fucking bother

I posted a part of the hearing that took place over this

they found a WIDE range of abuses going on from that particular company

its now a fact that they doctored studies

the originals are available and grand mal seizures and even death in the monkeys tested

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11599410 - 12/06/09 09:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said: it shouldn't be in food though.




If it's in food that lists aspartame as an ingredient so I have the option of choosing not to eat it if I don't want to eat aspartame, then companies should be allowed to sell it and I should be allowed to buy it.  Anything other than this is a malicious restriction of my freedoms.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11599430 - 12/06/09 09:21 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

future primitive said: it shouldn't be in food though.




If it's in food that lists aspartame as an ingredient so I have the option of choosing not to eat it if I don't want to eat aspartame, then companies should be allowed to sell it and I should be allowed to buy it.  Anything other than this is a malicious restriction of my freedoms.




it needs a warning if its toxic

thats just common sense and its the standard for all other food/chemicals sold

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Life Upon Death]
    #11599438 - 12/06/09 09:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Debatable but that's fine by me.  I just don't support the outright banning of food that contains aspartame.  :shrug:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11599455 - 12/06/09 09:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

maybe they should make soda with a little baggie of aspartame on the side, so they can choose wither to put it in the pop or not.:yesnod:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11599470 - 12/06/09 09:28 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
if people want it that bad even after all that then they have that right

I just don't think anyones gonna want it anymore if they have the facts




Agreed and agreed.

Quote:

Life Upon Death said:
thats why I'd support the ban




:facepalm:

A ban of aspartame may save lives but it also sacrifices our freedoms.  I'll take liberty over a governmentally-enforced nanny state any day.  Hell, why don't you also ban cars since millions of car accidents kill people every year?  You'd be saving lives, right?




this is such a stretch it's ridiculous. you think that's the same thing? it's not.

it also has ZERO to do with personal freedom. you're all very confused.

don't think of it as rallying for the gov to ban something. look at it as a request to the people, or corporations rather (lol), that make the food, to simply NOT add these substances when making the food. basically, what they need to do is, when they get to the part where they add the msg or aspartame, to REFRAIN from it.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11599507 - 12/06/09 09:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

i think the majority of the problem with the ingredients in our food it that they don't tell you it's bad for you.
why not?

it sells easier, that's why.
they aren't going to tell you on a can of pop that it causes all these illnesses or else it won't sell.
the human mind loses attention for multiple little things quickly.
i am not going to go research for the 46 ingredients of a bag of Doritos before i eat it, it's easier to do the easy way out and suffer for it later by eating it.

should all these bad chemical ingredients be banned? nope. it would be saying that drugs be banned for being bad for you.

we should have the freedom to consume to our hearts content, but we should not be lied to of what we consume.
i believe we should have the right to know what is being put into out bodys and i am sure most of you agree.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11599511 - 12/06/09 09:35 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It has everything to do with personal freedom.  I have the right, if I want, to purchase food that contains aspartame in it.  You have no right to prevent this.

Quote:

elementswrath said:
we should have the freedom to consume to our hearts content, but we should not be lied to of what we consume.




Yes.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11599538 - 12/06/09 09:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said:
it also has ZERO to do with personal freedom. you're all very confused.



It does though. You're saying you want to legislate what I can and cannot eat. Want to make my coffee and tobacco illegal while you're at it? (my tobacco is Swedish snus, which is regulated as a food product in its country of origin)

Quote:

look at it as a request to the people, or corporations rather (lol), that make the food, to simply NOT add these substances when making the food. basically, what they need to do is, when they get to the part where they add the msg or aspartame, to REFRAIN from it.



If people didn't prefer the flavor of products with MSG, they wouldn't.

This isn't an issue requiring legal referrendums. You make your voice heard with your purchases. If people didn't want aspartame and MSG, there'd be less products that contain them, because those products wouldn't be bought. You're free to purchase MSG-free foods. You're not free to prevent me from purchasing products containing MSG.

I'm sorry if you don't believe that people should be able to make their own decisions. That's just kind of a given in a society with civil liberties.  You're free to move to a nation that doesn't respect civil rights if you have an objection to this basic principle.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11599675 - 12/06/09 10:02 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

i smoked dehydrated apartame...im fucked up :tongue:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: nowwhoutthink]
    #11600308 - 12/06/09 11:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

1.) The situation is identical, you've simply depersonalized it.

See 3.


2.) As a chemistry major, I can generally pronounce all that gobbledygook.


:shrug:

3.) People don't depend on packaged foods. People choose to consume them. As long as people are choosing to consume the products, they should be free to make informed decisions or uninformed decisions about which to consume. That's their prerogative.

I think they do. I doubt that enough pure, additive free ingredients even make it to the end-consumers to feed the population. Not all areas have access to many pure ingredients. There are people without enough time to prepare their meals. Even if you can somehow argue that if there's a will there's a way, in reality people aren't going to analyze all scientific studies on any substance that makes it into food. It's impractical. People have lives.


o all those chemicals listed on the back of every package aren't conspicuous enough for you? :confused:


Certainly not rare, and not really conspicuous. It doesn't draw attention to itself like what you described, and the average TV-dinner consumer couldn't tell you how many of these "conspicuous" ingredients they consumed.


And I fully support that they be required to label their food products as such. That's kind of implicit in allowing the consumer to make an informed decision (or not, as the consumer sees fit).

Not sure what you're getting at here, as restaurants don't label ingredients, but they are regulated by health departments, so... try again. Would you rather those 20 drops not be regulated by the local health department?


It's not. That's precisely the point. You have every right to examine the health safety data for food additives, and make your decision accordingly. You also have every right not to be aware of the data and make decisions out of ignorance.

The fact is, not everyone is going to agree with the FDA's decisions.  Some may find the data inconclusive, or be more concerned about warning signs that were officially deemed insignificant. Forcing the FDA's (sometimes-biased) conclusions on the entire population by means of legal sanctions simply does not strike me as ethical.


Never said the FDA is perfect. But something is better than nothing. What "safety data" is there to even review when a new additive is introduced, if there is no certification process? Do you simply want the manufacturer's word? Wouldn't third party certification be more useful? Of course, if third party certification shows a substance is extremely harmful, it only seems logical to me to regulate it's use in food rather than try to warn everyone before it makes it onto millions of shelves.


Of course you don't. If you force your product on a customer, that's illegal (and a bit absurd... imagine if mcdonalds forced you to buy burgers!).  But you do have the immutable right to enter into consensual agreements with your customers to whatever extent that it does not harm anyone besides the consenting parties.

I already brought up the issue of ubiquity and inescapability for the population as a whole from additives, and the fact that you can't possibly become familiar with the thousands of potential additives. Besides that, an extent of trust always exists between a business and its customers, which could be betrayed with a bad choice of additive. It's a dynamic industry and things can easily and insidiously "slip in". No, a label is not so conspicuous as to alert customers of potential changes in the product.


What business do you have banning him from doing so? I think a reasonable degree of regulation would be to require that any product containing an additive for which there's little or no data should be marked as such on the packaging.  If people are aware they're consuming an untested material and choose to do so anyway, what's the problem? (Be careful how you answer, unless you believe RCs should be illegal as well)


I never said anything should be illegal and from the very start said that regulation in food and illegalization are entirely different issues. You can't add research chemicals to food, can you? But they aren't illegal.

The problem is of course the same as I've been arguing. People are not scientific about eating.


Fuck this thread. :undecided:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11600324 - 12/06/09 11:58 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

People are not scientific about eating.




They have every right not to be.  (at least they should, if we believe in freedom)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11600336 - 12/07/09 12:00 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Therefore, have a board review the science for them. :shrug:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11600341 - 12/07/09 12:02 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

it's in FOOD for fucks sakes. it's HARDLY the same thing.

yes, I truly believe that if you want to eat rat poison, you should ! please do in fact. it shouldn't be in food though.


Right on.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11600363 - 12/07/09 12:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

im more worried about food being microwaved than that sweetner stuff. microwaves just seem unhealthy to me.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11600365 - 12/07/09 12:07 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
Therefore, have a board review the science for them. :shrug:




:thumbdown:  Certainly a board should review it and make the conclusion available.  But a free person has a right to ignore scientific findings and suggestion if they want.  The last thing I want is some far off board deciding what I can and cannot eat, or how to live my life in anyway.  That is my right, not theirs - and anybody who would take that away from me is an enemy of my freedom.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11600371 - 12/07/09 12:08 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

People are not scientific about eating.




So?

Sorry, but "Americans are too dumb to handle it" is not a valid justification for infringing on individual liberty.

I'm all for regulation through proper labeling. But once someone decides that certain specific food products should not be legal to sell (like aspartame-laced soda or MSG-laced salad dressing), then they're infringing on the liberty of the entire population and can go fuck themselves with rusty barbed wire.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11600411 - 12/07/09 12:17 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Jesus fucking Christ. Way to pick one sentence and twist my words whilst ignoring my entire page of rebuttals.

In a regulated market you still have the right to ingest any substance, but the convenience of your choice to harm yourself is sacrificed for the convenience of others to live healthily. So sorry you can't get rat poison served in your mashed potatoes. You can still go buy it, and this small inconvenience will save lives of those who are not so meticulous in their selections.

That's fair. Sacrificing the convenience to make healthy choices for the convenience of those who want to harm themselves is insane.

Edited by Epigallo (12/07/09 12:19 AM)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11600423 - 12/07/09 12:19 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't ignore your page of rebuttals, I just felt that my response sufficiently addressed all of them :shrug:

And sorry, but I don't agree with sacrificing basic freedoms to save a few people who are dumb enough to eat rat poison in their mashed potatoes. In fact, I fully encourage people who are dumb enough to eat rat poison in their mashed potatoes to do so!

Like I've said, I fully support regulation through labeling. By all means, give people tools to help them in making informed decisions. But I do not support regulation that makes products explicitly unavailable by appealing to the ignorance of the masses.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11600446 - 12/07/09 12:26 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
So sorry you can't get rat poison served in your mashed potatoes. You can still go buy it, and this small inconvenience will save lives of those who are not so meticulous in their selections.



So where do you draw the line?

"So sorry you can't get your cigarettes. You can still grow tobacco, flue-cure it, and roll your own smokes. This small inconvenience will save the lives of those who are not so meticulous in their selections"?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11600451 - 12/07/09 12:28 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I didn't ignore your page of rebuttals, I just felt that my response sufficiently addressed all of them :shrug:




Not, it didn't, at all.

I am so fucking pissed off. Answer my taco question, for example. The one by the discussion of tacos.

Okay, sorry. Losing my temper here. This one:
Quote:


And I fully support that they be required to label their food products as such. That's kind of implicit in allowing the consumer to make an informed decision (or not, as the consumer sees fit).

Not sure what you're getting at here, as restaurants don't label ingredients, but they are regulated by health departments, so... try again. Would you rather those 20 drops not be regulated by the local health department?



Edited by Epigallo (12/07/09 12:35 AM)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11600459 - 12/07/09 12:31 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

bradley said:
So sorry you can't get rat poison served in your mashed potatoes. You can still go buy it, and this small inconvenience will save lives of those who are not so meticulous in their selections.



So where do you draw the line?

"So sorry you can't get your cigarettes. You can still grow tobacco, flue-cure it, and roll your own smokes. This small inconvenience will save the lives of those who are not so meticulous in their selections"?




Tobacco is not an additive that is inserted into food, which is a distinction I have brought up between illegalization and regulation many times.

I'm going to bed.

Edited by Epigallo (12/07/09 12:32 AM)

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11600503 - 12/07/09 12:41 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
Tobacco is not an additive that is inserted into food



Yeah, you know why? Because it's ILLEGAL to add it to food. Which is bullshit. 

I think nicotine-laced truffles would be :omgawesome::drooling:



Quote:

Quote:

And I fully support that they be required to label their food products as such. That's kind of implicit in allowing the consumer to make an informed decision (or not, as the consumer sees fit).




Not sure what you're getting at here, as restaurants don't label ingredients, but they are regulated by health departments, so... try again. Would you rather those 20 drops not be regulated by the local health department?




I thought what I'm getting at should be clear considering the number of times that I've mentioned proper labeling as the primary means of legitimate regulation.

Yes, I'd prefer that some random local health department NOT tell me what I can and cannot be served in a dining establishment.  I'd much prefer that such information be made available to me as a consumer through proper labeling (eg. by including the info on the menu), and I can decide for myself whether or not I want to eat it.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11601792 - 12/07/09 08:53 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

So everyone would go into restaurants, sit at a terminal for a couple hours and research whatever additives, then make their orders. Sounds realistic. Would they also do their own kitchen inspections to uphold their right to a consensual agreement for food-made-in-a-dirty-kitchen? I would be pretty fucking pissed if the health department took away that freedom of choice.


Quote:

Yeah, you know why? Because it's ILLEGAL to add it to food. Which is bullshit.


 

It's bullshit to sacrifice the ease of obtaining safe food for those who want to easily obtain dangerous food. This trade-off is what you have ignored in every one of your arguments.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11601807 - 12/07/09 08:58 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The majority of people will favor purchasing food that does not contain dangerous additives, thus there will be more stores that sell this type of food to meet the demand.  What's bullshit is you making it illegal for me to patronize a store that sells the type of food that I want with the additives that I request.  :shrug:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11601891 - 12/07/09 09:22 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:


Quote:

Yeah, you know why? Because it's ILLEGAL to add it to food. Which is bullshit.


 

It's bullshit to sacrifice the ease of obtaining safe food for those who want to easily obtain dangerous food. This trade-off is what you have ignored in every one of your arguments.




But its easy as hell to obtain either right now.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11601925 - 12/07/09 09:26 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The majority of people will favor purchasing food that does not contain dangerous additives, thus there will be more stores that sell this type of food to meet the demand.




Bullshit back at you. People have eaten trans fats like crazy for years, and there is ample supply and demand. There's a good chance it is any package of food you pick up. However, it is one of the most well-known, researched (proven harmful) compounds. How well do you think consumer choice on 3,000+ lesser known additives would work out, if they fail to behave like your prediction for one that is well-known?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11601932 - 12/07/09 09:28 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

bradley said:


Quote:

Yeah, you know why? Because it's ILLEGAL to add it to food. Which is bullshit.


 

It's bullshit to sacrifice the ease of obtaining safe food for those who want to easily obtain dangerous food. This trade-off is what you have ignored in every one of your arguments.




But its easy as hell to obtain either right now.




The market is regulated right now. Is your comment suppose to prove something?

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11601937 - 12/07/09 09:29 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

That goes to show that the majority of the public either doesn't know or doesn't care that they're eating trans fats, probably because food made with trans fats tastes better than food that isn't.  All I know is that I avoid eating food with trans fats because it's unhealthy and that anyone else has the option of doing the same if they don't want to eat trans fats, but I'm not going to unfairly restrict the rights of my fellow citizens to eat food with trans fats if they so choose.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11601992 - 12/07/09 09:38 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

How do you think that refutes my argument? If a large percentage of the population is unaware that they are eating trans fats, how well would an unregulated market of 3,000+ additives would work for the population?

Also, I don't have nearly as much freedom as a consumer to buy good food when half of it contains trans fats. Freedom is not either/or, but a matter of degrees.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11602442 - 12/07/09 11:07 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I can't believe this thread is still going. People are still adamant about spewing bullshit pseudoscience? Get over it folks.

Can we talk about chemtrails now? That was more entertaining

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Offlinefuture primitive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Gumby]
    #11602449 - 12/07/09 11:10 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

FOR GOD SAKES --- ENTERTAIN THIS PERSON!!!!

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11602469 - 12/07/09 11:14 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
How do you think that refutes my argument? If a large percentage of the population is unaware that they are eating trans fats, how well would an unregulated market of 3,000+ additives would work for the population?

Also, I don't have nearly as much freedom as a consumer to buy good food when half of it contains trans fats. Freedom is not either/or, but a matter of degrees.




So sponsor groups to get the information about aspartame and/or add warning labels to the food.  Education is the name of the game here, not restriction of freedoms.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Epigallo]
    #11602531 - 12/07/09 11:24 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bradley said:
So everyone would go into restaurants, sit at a terminal for a couple hours and research whatever additives, then make their orders. Sounds realistic.



Yeah, right...:rolleyes:

Either that, or restaurants would just use pure ingredients and limit their chemical additives to the handful that people know by name. But I guess that'd be too obvious?

Quote:

Would they also do their own kitchen inspections to uphold their right to a consensual agreement for food-made-in-a-dirty-kitchen? I would be pretty fucking pissed if the health department took away that freedom of choice.




Have I ever objected to health code inspections to verify that appropriate kitchen practices are used in preparing the food? Ingredients and kitchen cleanliness are two completely separate issues.  Although if an establishment wishes to serve food from an unclean kitchen, I don't see any problem with them doing so as long as that fact is made clear to the consumer.

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah, you know why? Because it's ILLEGAL to add it to food. Which is bullshit.


 

It's bullshit to sacrifice the ease of obtaining safe food for those who want to easily obtain dangerous food. This trade-off is what you have ignored in every one of your arguments.




I haven't ignored it, I simply don't respect or agree with it. Haven't I made that clear by now?  In case you missed it, I'll say it again: an appeal to mass ignorance is NOT a legitimate justification for infringing en masse upon civil liberties (it is, however, the same basic argument that underpins the war on drugs).  I welcome you to migrate to a socialist dictatorship if you object to the basic principle of civil liberties.

Furthermore, I don't see how your argument applies at all to the case I'm talking about: tobacco as a food additive. Why in the fuck should I be allowed to buy a pack of cigs, but  NOT allowed to buy a tobacco-laced truffle or energy drink?  I don't get the logic, and I vociferously object to the principle.

Quote:

bradley said:
How do you think that refutes my argument? If a large percentage of the population is unaware that they are eating trans fats, how well would an unregulated market of 3,000+ additives would work for the population?



To me, that sounds like a strong indication that it'd work very well indeed!

Quote:

Also, I don't have nearly as much freedom as a consumer to buy good food when half of it contains trans fats.



Bullshit.  The government is not telling you that you CANNOT buy food without trans fats. It simply happens that there is a high demand for trans-fatty foods, so there are a lot of them on the market.

Your point doesn't even make any sense! It's like a lebanese person claiming that McDonalds is impinging on their freedom to buy baba ghanoush.

Sorry bub, if you can't handle the concept that supply and demand dictates the distribution of products in the marketplace, you might want to check out a totalitarian socialist state. From the thrust of your arguments, it really sounds like you'd be happier there.

Quote:

Freedom is not either/or, but a matter of degrees.



BULLSHIT!

Either black people count as a person, or they don't. Or did you support the 3/5ths clause as a reasonable and moderate approach?

Either I can legally possess cannabis, or I can't. Or do you support minor decriminalization (getting the equivalent of a traffic ticket for possession <1 oz) as a reasonable and moderate approach?

Either gays can get married, or they can't.


Right now, I can't buy tobacco-based food products. Someone in this thread has opined that I shouldn't be allowed to buy MSG-laced food products in the future.

Sorry, but freedoms are black and white. You can have shades of black and shades of white (non-prohibitive regulation), but it's still either black or white. There are no shades of gray here.

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Offlinefuture primitive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11602538 - 12/07/09 11:25 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

it's not a restriction of freedoms, it's refraining from putting known poisons in foods.

Its' also not pseudoscience, which is a word someone wanted to use in my "ratings" to sound smart. you aren't. you might be able to fool the majority, but you're not fooling me. I haven't insulted anyone. the fact that you're defending these substances speaks volumes about what kind of person you are. a) you're not very smart or b) you feel threatened by discussion and free thought.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11602547 - 12/07/09 11:27 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said:
it's not a restriction of freedoms, it's refraining from putting known poisons in foods.




Foods are sold without aspartame.  You are free to purchase these.  Foods are sold with aspartame.  You are also free to purchase these.

You're trying to restrict my freedom to purchase something, clear and simple.  Advocate putting warning labels on foods that contain toxic substances if you want but don't prevent me from buying something if I want to.


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Gumby]
    #11602548 - 12/07/09 11:27 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gumby said:
I can't believe this thread is still going. People are still adamant about spewing bullshit pseudoscience? Get over it folks.

Can we talk about chemtrails now? That was more entertaining



You missed it, the conversation has now switched to whether the basic principle of prohibition is justified.  Bradley's arguing that the government ought to tell me what food products I can and cannot buy, and seems to be getting upset that people object to this idea. We've got ourselves an aspiring Anslinger up in this thread!
:mustardaccident:

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11602560 - 12/07/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said:
I haven't insulted anyone. the fact that you're defending these substances speaks volumes about what kind of person you are. a) you're not very smart or b) you feel threatened by discussion and free thought.



zomg! :omgz:

Defending civil liberties = feeling threatened by discussion and free thought ?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm just a barely-functioning imbecile who has difficulty keeping the drool off my chin so I might fall into the former category, but Decypher and DieCommie are are pretty smart dudes.

(also, it's kind of funny to insult people right after you say you haven't insulted anyone... just sayin')

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11602588 - 12/07/09 11:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

future primitive said:
it's not a restriction of freedoms, it's refraining from putting known poisons in foods.




Foods are sold without aspartame.  You are free to purchase these.  Foods are sold with aspartame.  You are also free to purchase these.

You're trying to restrict my freedom to purchase something, clear and simple.  Advocate putting warning labels on foods that contain toxic substances if you want but don't prevent me from buying something if I want to.




you really don't have to keep repeating the same argument over and over. actually, what you're giving us isn't even an argument. what you are giving us is an asinine comeback.

do I think that people should raise their own food to avoid aspartame? yes. will they? no, because they're lazy.

maybe you're right. maybe this is needed to teach people to boycott corporation who use these things.

AGAIN, asking the gov to do anything is NOT the solution. the solution is to get RID of the hierarchical gov system of authority extravaganza.

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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11602597 - 12/07/09 11:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

You're plenty welcome to boycott food companies that put aspartame in their product if you want.  Just don't try to make my purchasing food with aspartame illegal.  :shrug:


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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11602602 - 12/07/09 11:36 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

future primitive said:
will they? no, because they're lazy.



1.) They have the right to be if they so choose
2.) An appeal to mass laziness is no better a justification for infringing on my civil liberties than an appeal to mass stupidity.

Quote:

future primitive said:
AGAIN, asking the gov to do anything is NOT the solution. the solution is to get RID of the hierarchical gov system of authority extravaganza.



So you're saying that no regulatory agency should have the authority to tell me what foods I can and cannot buy? Sounds like we may have reached common ground
:highfive:

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Offlinefuture primitive
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Registered: 12/06/09
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11602613 - 12/07/09 11:38 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Entropymancer said:
Quote:

future primitive said:
I haven't insulted anyone. the fact that you're defending these substances speaks volumes about what kind of person you are. a) you're not very smart or b) you feel threatened by discussion and free thought.



zomg! :omgz:

Defending civil liberties = feeling threatened by discussion and free thought ?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm just a barely-functioning imbecile who has difficulty keeping the drool off my chin so I might fall into the former category, but Decypher and DieCommie are are pretty smart dudes.

(also, it's kind of funny to insult people right after you say you haven't insulted anyone... just sayin')



it was more of an observation than an insult. an observation that would not have been made if this complete stranger didn't come to ME and say that the shroomery doesn't need me.

this I would expect from my bible, church, gigantic brain washing screen & football obsessed neighbors, but not from people on a website called the "shroomery". lulz.

just saying.

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11602652 - 12/07/09 11:44 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I can't say I disagree with him. People passionately arguing for taking my civil liberties into a cold dark alley and gangraping them are not really people I like to associate with. Considering the number of people on this site who use or have used scheduled drugs, I'd expect much of the shroomery agrees.

And yet there's always a fresh crowd of prohibitionists cropping up like gnats here, telling people that they shouldn't have the freedom to decide what they put in their own body.

I have no objection to ignorance in principle. But when a specific incidence of ignorance wants to declare me a de facto criminal, you bet your ass I'm gonna object!

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Invisibleelementswrath
Finger' trippin good
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Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,276
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: future primitive]
    #11602657 - 12/07/09 11:45 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

do I think that people should raise their own food to avoid aspartame? yes. will they? no, because they're lazy.


it's a lot simpler than that, just don't buy food with aspartame in it. simple isn't it?


AGAIN, asking the gov to do anything is NOT the solution. the solution is to get RID of the hierarchical gov system of authority extravaganza.

explain how you could do that? get rid of authority?

i believe in personal freedom, getting rid of aspartame is doing the opposite.

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Offlinefuture primitive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #11602672 - 12/07/09 11:48 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

get this through your dense skull. it's not a drug, therefore prohibition does not apply.

I am telling people that they should eat rat poison if they would like. but it shouldnt be in food deceptively packaged and advertised as healthy, when it's basically the opposite.

if you can't understand that you may be slightly retarded.

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Offlinefuture primitive
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Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: elementswrath]
    #11602684 - 12/07/09 11:50 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

elementswrath said:
do I think that people should raise their own food to avoid aspartame? yes. will they? no, because they're lazy.


it's a lot simpler than that, just don't buy food with aspartame in it. simple isn't it?


AGAIN, asking the gov to do anything is NOT the solution. the solution is to get RID of the hierarchical gov system of authority extravaganza.

explain how you could do that? get rid of authority?

i believe in personal freedom, getting rid of aspartame is doing the opposite.



it's in thousands of products, an depending on the product, there is no choice. it's in every option available.

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OfflineFlickeryVision
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Registered: 03/17/09
Posts: 554
Loc: Amsterdam!
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: How on Earth is aspartame legal?? [Re: deCypher]
    #11602705 - 12/07/09 11:54 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
The lack of concern of other people for their own well-being is not my problem.  Let natural selection work things out.



yeah right on before long we will have a whole species of dietists.


--------------------
Anyone in the Netherlands or London, UK looking to sell :sanpedro: or :peyotespectrum: just :pm:

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