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OfflineH2O2shrooms
Couch Potato

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 67
Loc: in front of the computer
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Honey tek
    #1156813 - 12/20/02 01:57 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

So I was reading my notes on making MYA/MEA and I ran across the part about adding B vitamins to your agar solution to help the Mycelium propagate. My thinking is that honey and agar are attempting to achieve similar result in different medium liquid vs gel. So I did a little experiment, and here are my results.

I made 2 identical 26oz jars of honey water. Approx. 24 oz of water and 1 1/2 Tbs. of honey. In 1 jar I added just a pinch of nutritional yeast extract aprox 1/16 of a teaspoon. Actually I made the jars 2 days apart because that?s when the thought struck me.


Both jars have 1small hole punched in the metal lids for the inoculation and a Piece of masking tape over the hole.

The first jar was simply honey and water, I sterilized the jar by boiling it in the microwave for 10 minutes using 1 minute on 1 minute off until boil was achieved and then maintained the temp by giving 15 second bursts to the solution every minute until it had steeped at that temperature for the 10 minutes. I did it this way to avoid caramelizing the sugars.

The lids were sterilized by throwing it in a pot of boiling water for 10 minutes.

Using Oven tek I took the very hot jar from the microwave and put the lids on after wiping the threads, and hole with alcohol.

When the jar was cool I Again went to the oven and added 2 CC's of an almost clear syringe, I got from a retailer. Flaming the needle, and bleaching the air before hand.

2 days later I repeated the same process with a Second jar, the only difference being the addition of nutritional yeast, although a small amount of crushed B complex vitamin can be substituted.

Once the second jar was cool I repeated the inoculation with 2cc's from the same syringe.

It has been 5 days since the first jar, and 3 for the second. my temperatures are not ideal for incubation so it is going a bit slowly.
In the first jar I have some small threads of mycelium visible in the solution although no clumps have formed yet. the second jar (2 days younger) has visible 1/2 to 1 centimeter lumps of mycelium forming. I have been shaking the jars daily to distribute the resources.

The only down side to the Yeast is it makes the water a bit cloudy, making it more difficult to determine if I have contaminates.

I am going away for the weekend and will post an update on their growth when I return, although if all goes well they will be in an incubator over the weekend (trying to build one before I leave town)

Sorry I have no cam so no Pics


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Mycology is a lot like quantum mechanics in that we don?t have causal relationships like in Newtonian physics, only probabilities of various outcomes.<=== Misapropriated from Mycofile

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Invisiblei am e goldstein
Your Friend

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 283
Loc: 4 Blocks from Ground Zero
Post deleted by Administrator [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1156851 - 12/20/02 02:23 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)



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Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.
3DSHROOMS is either clueless or the worlds biggest SCUMBAG
I lie and exagerate constantly... God Bless America!

Edited by i am e goldstein (12/20/02 02:24 AM)

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OfflineH2O2shrooms
Couch Potato

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 67
Loc: in front of the computer
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: i am e goldstein]
    #1156871 - 12/20/02 02:36 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

While I have not had experience with the tablets and am not testing them, since Nutritional yeast is so cheap and readily availible in my area. I have some info from (so far) my only mushroom cultivation book. In his agar medium per liter of water he adds about 1/10th of a gram from a pill per liter of solution.

P.S. You really want to use Red star brand nutritional yeast powder. It is different than brewers yeast and many others, it is a dead culture and is processed to retain the more complex enzymes. It is availible at Fred Myers/Krogers and most health food stores.

Incubator has been built, and more info will be posted sunday.
Also I would like to stress that nutritional yeast is not what you bake with it comes either in flakes or powder and is fairly dark yellow.


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Mycology is a lot like quantum mechanics in that we don?t have causal relationships like in Newtonian physics, only probabilities of various outcomes.<=== Misapropriated from Mycofile

Edited by H2O2shrooms (12/20/02 06:36 AM)

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Offlinehsalf
bad O lover
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 147
Loc: not from around here
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1160991 - 12/21/02 06:42 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

? book is this?

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OfflineH2O2shrooms
Couch Potato

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 67
Loc: in front of the computer
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: hsalf]
    #1162659 - 12/22/02 02:37 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Back from the weekend. The honey + Yeast has formed into a large chunk of myc, and the straight honey has just started to clump.

It appears the Honey and yeast is almost fully done using the nutrients supplied, and the honey only probably has another day or to to go.

The book in question can be found at the following site.

http://members.aol.com/PeroxyMan/


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Mycology is a lot like quantum mechanics in that we don?t have causal relationships like in Newtonian physics, only probabilities of various outcomes.<=== Misapropriated from Mycofile

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Offlineroygbiv
zipperist

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 108
Loc: space is the place...
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1163052 - 12/22/02 04:52 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

your variant on the honey tek sounds decent... the honey/agar hypothesis also seems solid... but why bvitamin? i am not familiar with MYA/MEA, and do not want to jump into water thats over my head but i am curious why another vitamin could not be substituted (or a complex, or even a combination thereof)... just a link or short explanation would suffice... good luck! (fairly new to the agar scene, so take it easy)

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OfflineH2O2shrooms
Couch Potato

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 67
Loc: in front of the computer
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: roygbiv]
    #1163124 - 12/22/02 05:22 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Well to be honest I don't know. In the book he says that yeast powder and ready made MYA is availble from commercial mushroom growing supply stores. So I assume that commercial growers use this agar base for growing myceluim on and they have a good reason.
I did a search and found a few books I don't own that mention growing mushroom mycelium on prenutrified media, and the following company sells ready mix agar for mushrooms.

http://www.mushroommagic.com/petri_dishes.htm

I would like to state I am not promoting either of these things, they are just rescources I have foend searching the internet. The Are wuite a few commercial growing site, it might be worth cheching the technology out to see how it can be adapted to the hobbiyist.


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Mycology is a lot like quantum mechanics in that we don?t have causal relationships like in Newtonian physics, only probabilities of various outcomes.<=== Misapropriated from Mycofile

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OfflinestonErollEr1
The Psilocybinsolution
Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 666 666 Posts!
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1163525 - 12/22/02 09:59 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Just a thought..why do comercial mushgroowera use MEA or MYA?
PDYA is way better and promotes a more rhizo growth..That is what i found anyways.
well, im just curious...

peace...

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Invisiblerepobob
enthusiast
Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 261
Loc: Illinois
Re: Honey tek [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1163556 - 12/22/02 10:47 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I have done the same thing using Kayro instead of Honey. I can't believe the differance Neutrional Yeast makes.

This jar was started 12/4/02. One thing I did notice is that the NY does alot better if not shaken. Just let the jars sit undisturbed.

Peace,
Bob


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.

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Offlineroygbiv
zipperist

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 108
Loc: space is the place...
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1164545 - 12/23/02 08:09 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

...interesting... thanks for the information, i suppose ill just have to experiment...

roy

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OfflineH2O2shrooms
Couch Potato

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 67
Loc: in front of the computer
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: roygbiv]
    #1166058 - 12/24/02 12:28 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I have been pointed to an interesting article THE NUTRITIONAL REQUIREMENTS OF AGARICUS BISPORUS AND COPRINUS COMATUS. It was suggested to me that these mushrooms have similar requirements as P. Cubensis do. I offer this link as a reference supporting the B vitamin helps growth theory (kinda proven in this document) and suggest the addition of skim milk powder and olive oil to the Honey Tek would benefit mycelial growth. I do not have the time to test this at the moment but will eventually and add the info to this post.

Link:

http://www.fransdijkstra.nl/diss/chapter2.htm

Also the question was asked why do growers use MYA over PDYA? I believe the answer is that when digesting dextrose Mycelium does not produce any other digestive enzymes, meaning a slower start when transferred to a non-dextrose containing environment.



--------------------
Mycology is a lot like quantum mechanics in that we don?t have causal relationships like in Newtonian physics, only probabilities of various outcomes.<=== Misapropriated from Mycofile

Edited by H2O2shrooms (12/24/02 12:33 AM)

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OfflineH2O2shrooms
Couch Potato

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 67
Loc: in front of the computer
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1183787 - 01/01/03 10:31 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Update.
The honey and yeast jar fully colonized 7 days ago.
The honey only jar seems to have finished colonizing today.

It was annoying because the yeast powder never dissolved so it was difficult to tell if I had contams or not. I dumped a syringe full into a BRF/Verm jar I had and it is colonizing just fine, so no contams. But I did devise a method to eliminate that irritation.

Place a small amount of yeast powder into a coffee filter, I used a pint jar this time and the amount of yeast was around 1/32 of a teaspoon. I then poured boiling water through the filter (supported by a funnel in my case), and that filtered all the visible chunks. Added honey and sterilized as normal. This ends up with a liquid that for all the world looks like old piss. But it is clear so contams will be easy to spot, rather than a guessing game.


Honey only started 12-9-02 fully colonized 1-02-03
23 days (no incubator for the first 9 days or so)

Honey and yeast started 12-11-02 and fully colonized 12-26-02
15 days (no incubator for 7 days or so)


--------------------
Mycology is a lot like quantum mechanics in that we don?t have causal relationships like in Newtonian physics, only probabilities of various outcomes.<=== Misapropriated from Mycofile

Edited by H2O2shrooms (01/01/03 10:59 PM)

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InvisiblePsychoslut
The Mother Fucking Bear-o-dactyl
 User Gallery
Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 20,917
Loc: all up in ya
Re: Honey tek [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1343859 - 02/28/03 07:41 PM (21 years, 3 days ago)

i got three jars goin now, all with growth, i never measured anything, just put some in, and pced, cooled, innoced, anyways, i have a 1 qaurt, 1/2 pint, and a olive jar thats prolly lil less then a pint, half full of honey water, its doing the best, all three have cambo, im hijacking this thread, whats the contams in honey water look like????????


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]

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Invisiblewayne
creature

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 6
Re: Honey tek [Re: H2O2shrooms]
    #1355514 - 03/06/03 05:25 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I've recently heard a lot of talk about adding "yeast powder" to liquid culture medium, such as honey, corn syrup, or dextrose. (My friend prefers dextrose over the others, especially for cloning.)

Reading about different types of yeast, I became interested to learn that "RapidRise" is produced with ascorbic acid (vitamin c) which greatly increases the yeast's productivity and speed.

Has anyone heard of using ascorbic acid or some other form of vitamin C? Has anyone read about the effects of vitamin C on on the growth rate of p. cubensis mycelium?

If not, it is definitely time to start experimenting  :wink:

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OfflineDSD
devil

Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 1,263
Loc: Bad,Bad person - minus ...
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Honey tek [Re: wayne]
    #1356858 - 03/07/03 07:19 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)


H202
thanks for the info.

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Invisiblewoodrow
journeyman
Registered: 03/17/03
Posts: 142
Re: Honey tek [Re: wayne]
    #1404522 - 03/23/03 09:17 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I have experimented with adding vitamin C to both liquid and solid media and it does nothing to improve growth. Too much will even slow growth but it does make media much easier to sterilize. The acid plus heat combination is deadly for contams and this is good if you do not have, or do not want to use, a PC. Vitamin C crystals are hard to find but Fruit Fresh works just as well for reducing contams.(stores sell Fruit Fresh with canning supplies) Tartric acid also works nicely for sterilizing and it is sold in grocery stores as Cream of Tartar. None of these acids combine well with agar because they cause it to liquify. I like to add 1/4 tsp. of tartic acid per liter for liquid media and 1/2 tsp. per liter for grains to help supress bacterial contams.

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