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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: Evolving]
    #1152872 - 12/18/02 06:19 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

If you have a graduated income tax, you in effect are punishing people for earning more money by taking a greater percentage of their income.

Ummm...? Are you agreeing with me that things aren't as rosy in the US as stonedfish implies?

How much of this poverty is a condition of recent immigrants?

I don't know. But I used to live in the Silicon Valley, which has recently been flooded by immigrants from India. Most have engineering degrees and are making close to six figures doing high-tech stuff. In any case Canada and Europe have very high immigration rates as well, so the question is less relevant.

Let's get back to the original question, which I think was a good one - Can drugs be used to contol a population? I think the answer would be the same in Canada, Europe and the US.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1152932 - 12/18/02 06:35 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

To me true freedom is the right to exercise sole dominion over my own life, and to live in whatsoever manner I choose, so long as I do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to do the same.

That sounds like Anarchy to me.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: Murex]
    #1152942 - 12/18/02 06:41 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

That sounds like Anarchy to me.

Almost.  Except for the last part "...so long as I do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to do the same".  :wink: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 676
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: Anonymous]
    #1152955 - 12/18/02 06:46 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Using drugs to control society?

Its taking place all around us. Is television not a perfect example? media in general is a leash that is there to keep us all in a herd. The word "drug" goes so far beyond the conventional meaning as far as im concerned. I t no longer pertains to just chemical agents put into the body. It is anything that changes or alters the perception of reality. we are constantly being "drugged" into thinking that war is a natural and necessary means of resolution, and that we have to be physically beautiful to be accepted. Its fucking bullshit!!!! Im sick of having freedom defined for me. We all need to stand up and fight for what we truly believe in. For me that means fighting for equalness, peace and acceptance of all creation. with all the wisdom and resources that human biengs posess, its ridiculous that we are not more in balance that we are.





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"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1152956 - 12/18/02 06:46 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

No, that fits with Anarchy too.

Apparently, you do not know what true anarchy is. Most think it's chaos- it isn't.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: whiterasta]
    #1153238 - 12/18/02 09:48 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Well Rasta, you and Strumpling are probably the only ones who've actually answered the original question. I got off on a tangent trying to understand the 3rd paragraph of the original post. It appears you both think the Government might have some control of people who are taking legal drugs.

But would this level of control increase or decrease if we were to legalize other drugs, like mushrooms or pot? Seems to me like those drugs would do nothing to help the Govt control us. Stonefish said (or implied) that these drugs might help you forget your problems, and therefore might make you complacent with your current situation. But I think many of us on these boards do drugs fairly regularly. Are we complacent with our situation??? I don't think so. Therefore, I would conclude that legalizing drugs WON'T help the Govt control us.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1153263 - 12/18/02 10:18 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

There are the statistics I was looking for. Thanks  :laugh: 

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OfflineGrav
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1153428 - 12/19/02 01:41 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I agree, GoBlue

It's hard to imagine having legal drug use in our society, but I'm trying right now...

The way I see it is there is this huge level of paranoia for illegal drug users. They ARE criminals, according to their government. We're being kept locked up in our homes and seperated from each other. Our normal peaceful way of life is condemned. This blanket of fear envelopes us. We're labeled supporters of terrorism. We're seen as crazy drug dealers to most of the law-abiding population. The fear splits people up.

If weed and mushrooms ever did get legalized I think we'd see a much bigger union of the people, communication would be rediscovered, and we'd move on to seek out the rest of the corruption in our country, which would be hella bad for the dominating forces in control now.

Imagine it, everyone hanging out on the neighborhood streets, getting high, talking to each other, sharing ideas, working together to get things done.

I think things will change dramatically when we realize how much power we the people can posess, and the freedom to do safe and beneficial drugs will be a big first step.

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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: Murex]
    #1153459 - 12/19/02 02:01 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, yeah, it is. True anarchy means a total lack of order.

What a bunch of leftist goofs call anarchy nowadays is NOT anarchy.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: Anonymous]
    #1153470 - 12/19/02 02:10 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

soma....didn't Gordan W. believe that soma was really a mushroom? it was some kind of religion, (i read it in the book flesh of the gods) i thought it had pretty much died out, cause no one really new what soma was?


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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Anonymous

Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1153696 - 12/19/02 04:02 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

>But would this level of control increase or decrease if we were to legalize other drugs, like mushrooms or pot? Seems to me like those drugs would do nothing to help the Govt control us.

Drugs like shrooms (and acid, as mentioned earlier) provide the use with unique insights which, I agree, would not keep people content. Since I began shrooming, I in fact have renewed hope in our country, and once again believe (however idealistically) that I can make a difference.

At the risk of severe flaming, I will also post my opinions on marijuana. Here is a drug with *some* ethnobotanical values, but every single pot smoker I know does not take advantage of the inisghts that can be gained from weed. When I smoked, it was merely an escape. I look at some of my friends now, and weed is still an escape. It hasn't improved their lives in any way. They spend most of their money on weed, and smoke every chance they get. The Simpsons did a great job illustrating the world of a stoner. While all the potheads of Springfield were lying around smoking, they completely space on the date to vote to keep medicinal marijuana legal.

The biggest of my concerns, is the ability of drugs such as prozac and ritalin to control a population. I was struggling with depression and OCD, and had an outspoken mistrust for large institutions. When I said I didn't trust that my school was looking out for my best interest, or that I wouldn't confide any personal information to a psychiatrist, the FIRST thing my doctor did was prescribe Zoloft. Granted, it made me feel a little better and more in control, but I found myself more easily susceptible to the various propoganda pushed by schools. I found that I could not be agitated over political issues, and I just stopped caring about anything that didn't directly deal with myself. As Huxley wrote, I became a normal in an abnormal society. I dealt with each day as it came, with no worry for the future of our country

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Offlineupupup
guardian

Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: Anonymous]
    #1153766 - 12/19/02 04:23 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I get really hung up on the real meaning of words often and find myself doing so here. "Drugs" is pretty vague if you ask me although I am not obliviouse to the current cultural usage of the word.

I am more inclined to think if there is any government control it is simply and soley done through TV more than anything else. FUCK borders, FUCK countries, FUCK "drugs", they can reach you and most people out there to it WILLINGLY.......

and while your watching that fake titted hotty pass the bottle of Bud Light to her Disney Stock owner, BMW driving,  hair replacemnt, boyfriend to wash his Ambien down, they will SELL it to you anyway.........  (trying for the product placment money baby!):shocked:


--------------------
Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

Edited by upupup (12/19/02 04:24 AM)

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Anonymous

Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: Phluck]
    #1153873 - 12/19/02 04:58 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I completely agree.

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OfflineLOPHO.MP
looker

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 101
Loc: Santa Cruz CA.
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: Anonymous]
    #1154030 - 12/19/02 05:59 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)



I think that your idea that drug use leading towards conformity is entirely dependent on the type of drug being used.

I agree that CERTAIN drugs might keep people from speaking out but we have to be careful to specify certain drugs rather than making a more general statement that includes all drugs.


Looking at history real quick we can see that the use of drugs does not necessarily mean conformity.

Look at the friggin' hippies for God's sake!!!!


--------------------
---Still Searching---

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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: LOPHO.MP]
    #1155194 - 12/19/02 12:00 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Great point!


--------------------
:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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Anonymous

Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: LOPHO.MP]
    #1155453 - 12/19/02 02:03 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

>I think that your idea that drug use leading towards conformity is entirely dependent on the type of drug being used.

Very much so. Take opiates for example. When you've popped a few vicadins, you don't feel like thinking, much less actually getting up and doing anything. Compare that with the need to explore on shrooms - maybe not physically; but on shrooms you are mentally exploring the universe and world around you.

Huxley also hinted at soma being comparable to such brain dead drugs when he writes in his preface that a drug was needed to help control society, much like alcohol or heroin, but without the negative side effects.

Edited by stonedfish (12/19/02 02:05 PM)

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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1155485 - 12/19/02 02:19 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Let's get back to the original question, which I think was a good one - Can drugs be used to contol a population? I think the answer would be the same in Canada, Europe and the US. 

This is a link to information on quinuclidinyl bezilate - a super hallucinogen.  It is an odorless gas developed by the U.S. government for battle field use, also considered to be used against the U.S. civilian population in a major insurrection.
(we supposedly destoryed all stock piles :smirk: do you beleive that?)

It will put a subject into an acute hallucinatory state, disconnected from reality for 3 days, with after effects lasting as long as 6 weeks

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/BZ


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Using Drugs to Control a Society [Re: 3eyedgod]
    #1155513 - 12/19/02 02:27 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

BZ is the drug in Jacob's Ladder,right? That is some truly scary shit,an ultra potent anti-cholinergic deleriant! I think I would rather die than be exposed to that stuff.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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